San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics

[gilliam]

The pope’s call for Christians to offer an apology to gay and lesbian people was also carefully welcomed this week by Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego. “I think it opens up a very helpful pathway to dialogue and hopefully healing,” he said. Pope Francis, Bishop McElroy said, brings to this dialogue with L.G.B.T. Catholics who feel marginalized by or alienated from the church a “renewed and deepened focus on the questions of accompaniment and the mercy of God for all of us.”

“We all walk together in a life of virtue and discipleship,” Bishop McElroy said, “and all of us fail at times.”

He adds: “We have to begin to incorporate that mercy into the depths of our hearts and souls in ways that are going to be uncomfortable for us…. We all need to be shown mercy; it is something that binds us together, not differentiates us.”

“What we need to project in the life of the church is ‘You are part of us and we are part of you.’ [L.G.B.T. Catholics] are part of our families.”

That is not going to be an easy process, he acknowledged. It is one that will require preparation and “a lot of discussion and accompaniment and reflection in the church.” Bishop McElroy emphasized that he does not mean that reflection and accompaniment should be limited to L.G.B.T. Catholics. He said all members of the Catholic community who will be struggling with the idea of apology and welcoming gay and lesbian Catholics will similarly require accompaniment and reflection.

americamagazine.org/content/dispatches/digging-deep-mercy-we-all-need

 

[Havard]

Suggestion: combine this thread with the one about Cardinal Marx and the one about the Holy Father.

 

[meltzerboy]

The pope’s call for Christians to offer an apology to gay and lesbian people was also carefully welcomed this week by Bishop Robert McElroy of San Diego. “I think it opens up a very helpful pathway to dialogue and hopefully healing,” he said. Pope Francis, Bishop McElroy said, brings to this dialogue with L.G.B.T. Catholics who feel marginalized by or alienated from the church a “renewed and deepened focus on the questions of accompaniment and the mercy of God for all of us.”

“We all walk together in a life of virtue and discipleship,” Bishop McElroy said, “and all of us fail at times.”

He adds: “We have to begin to incorporate that mercy into the depths of our hearts and souls in ways that are going to be uncomfortable for us…. We all need to be shown mercy; it is something that binds us together, not differentiates us.”

“What we need to project in the life of the church is ‘You are part of us and we are part of you.’ [L.G.B.T. Catholics] are part of our families.”

That is not going to be an easy process, he acknowledged. It is one that will require preparation and “a lot of discussion and accompaniment and reflection in the church.” Bishop McElroy emphasized that he does not mean that reflection and accompaniment should be limited to L.G.B.T. Catholics. He said all members of the Catholic community who will be struggling with the idea of apology and welcoming gay and lesbian Catholics will similarly require accompaniment and reflection.

americamagazine.org/content/dispatches/digging-deep-mercy-we-all-need

This sounds good to me, totally in keeping with the Catholic faith AFAIK. I wish there were more than a faint glimmer of such forgiveness among the Orthodox Jewish leadership and community as well.

 

[Padres1969]

A nice statement by my local bishop. I’m sure it will be appreciated by the LGBT community and in particular the Catholic LBGT community.

 

[edwest2]

My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

This sounds good to me, totally in keeping with the Catholic faith AFAIK. I wish there were more than a faint glimmer of such forgiveness among the Orthodox Jewish leadership and community as well.

Hi,

Since the Jewish people are our neighbors, would you mind providing a statement or reference from the Orthodox Jewish leadership regarding this issue? I mean, only if you want to.

Best,
Ed

 

[Neofight]

My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed

How? It’s not about just welcoming others to the liturgical setting. We are called as Christian Catholics to have compassion for others, at all times, not just inside the walls of the sanctuary or during the Mass.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Suggestion: combine this thread with the one about Cardinal Marx and the one about the Holy Father.

No. As a priest, I disagree with this suggestion.

Bishop McElroy, as the Bishop of San Diego, is the bishop of the diocese in which the Catholic Answers Forum is physically located. Thus, he is the direct shepherd of the forum as well as the ecclesiastical authority over those who work at the headquarters.

I think his voice should be separated out from other voices, in view of his pastoral jurisdiction, so that it can be heard and underscored.

Thank you to the original poster.

 

[edwest2]

How? It’s not about just welcoming others to the liturgical setting. We are called as Christian Catholics to have compassion for others, at all times, not just inside the walls of the sanctuary or during the Mass.

I don’t know what you mean. I try to be courteous and polite to everyone in public. I never think: “Is that person gay or lesbian?” Never. I can’t tell. It doesn’t cross my mind.

I worked in a hospital for nearly 10 years and was down in the ER a lot. Never did I need to know who was who - gay, straight, etc. Everyone got the treatment they needed. I also worked with LGBT people and we got along. I did not think for one second what they did after work. We just did our jobs, so I don’t know where any confusion is coming from.

And patients could not tell if I was Catholic/Christian or not.

Ed

 

[J_Peterson]

My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed

There’s no shortage of Catholics that aren’t shy about saying that they will destroy the family and are damaging our society with their marriages. Are all priests welcoming of gay people? They tend to get fired from Catholic schools. You have people like the Lepanto Institute on a witch hunt to expose all the gay people working for Catholic orgs. That’s what persecution looks like.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

I think the Church needs to make clear that this is a top down issue. The treatment of gays wasn’t initiated from the laymen. Talk to any gay Catholic over the age of 55. They’ll most likely tell you that they felt rejected by Church, not necessarily their family. Laymen are not, mostly, responsible for these types of things, just as with child abuse cases.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I don’t know what you mean. I try to be courteous and polite to everyone in public. I never think: “Is that person gay or lesbian?” Never. I can’t tell. It doesn’t cross my mind.

I worked in a hospital for nearly 10 years and was down in the ER a lot. Never did I need to know who was who - gay, straight, etc. Everyone got the treatment they needed. I also worked with LGBT people and we got along. I did not think for one second what they did after work. We just did our jobs, so I don’t know where any confusion is coming from.

And patients could not tell if I was Catholic/Christian or not.

Ed

Wait, please.

I worked in Emergency, too, over the years as the Catholic Chaplain.

Were you in pastoral care? Because people certainly knew I, as a priest, was Catholic. I had Catholics wanting pastoral care in a health crisis or at the moment of death, just as I had non-Catholics needing care – and many times, in life or death situations, making use of all that universal and particular law granted me, including Canon 844

Were you in patient advocacy? Because when the gentleman’s significant other was the patient’s advocate, one quickly came to know and understand the degree of the relationship.

So yes these issues had great significance.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Anyone who has studied pastoral theology knows – or should know – that “to accompany pastorally,” which is the phrase that the Pope used, does not simply mean that the door is not locked or that a person is not physically prevented from entering.

To accompany pastorally is at one and the same time a positive action and engagement on the one hand but an action and an engagement that has to be tailored to the situation and circumstances as far as what is possible on the side of the pastoral agent and also what is being sought on the side of the other person

The pastoral agent…be it the parish priest, a deacon, a lay minister or other member of the liturgical assembly/faith community…would have at their disposal a variety of responses to any given pastoral situation.

The bishop is quite precise in taking up the Pope’s language of accompaniment.

My prayers are with His Excellency and with the presybyterate of the Diocese of San Diego as they prayerfully examine this matter and discern their pastoral responses for the flock, in its entirety, that is entrusted to their care.

 

[Neofight]

I don’t know what you mean. I try to be courteous and polite to everyone in public. I never think: “Is that person gay or lesbian?” Never. I can’t tell. It doesn’t cross my mind.

I worked in a hospital for nearly 10 years and was down in the ER a lot. Never did I need to know who was who - gay, straight, etc. Everyone got the treatment they needed. I also worked with LGBT people and we got along. I did not think for one second what they did after work. We just did our jobs, so I don’t know where any confusion is coming from.

And patients could not tell if I was Catholic/Christian or not.

Ed

Ed,

I don’t doubt your piety or righteousness, but in shear numbers you may be a voice in the wilderness. There are many, even on this site, who talk about the virtues of treating others as Christ commanded, but who make little effort to turn speech into action. Those, not you, were the subject of my diatribe.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed

In my Episcopal parish in San Francisco, there are many LGBT men and women – there are couples, some married, some living together, some just together. There are families with children. There are single gay and lesbian members. They serve at the altar, they read lessons, they sit on our Vestry, they preach, they teach, they are clergy and they are lay.

That is how we are inclusive. Is that similar in your parishes?

 

[edwest2]

With all due respect to Bishop McElroy, he needs to speak with someone at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding certain words and terms that he finds problematic. That has nothing to do with me. I have never said anything hurtful to a gay person, much less threatened a gay person. And would never contemplate violence against anyone, unless I was in immediate danger.

This also ignores the open scandal of same-sex marriage, transgender bathroom bills and so on. Yes, straights are sinners but we don’t have Masturbation Pride Parades either. Growing up, I heard more negative things about blacks and hispanics, even though I have black and other races friends.

The media - and this is easily proven - is adding more gay married couples to TV shows and movies. Go to any LGBT activist site and you will see phrases like “we need to increase/accelerate acceptance.” Of what, exactly? Sure, there are straight adulterers, those who go to prostitutes and so on, but the media is obsessed with promoting LGBT behavior as perfectly normal. We don’t know what causes it. The only message I’m getting and seeing is - sodomy is OK, gay sex is OK, gay marriage is OK, transgender bathroom bills, etc. And who decided all of this is OK? Technically, no one knows if these behaviors are OK.

And LGBT news sites are obsessed with every word the Pope say about LGBT persons. The fact is, the Church did not advocate for gay marriage and got a negative reaction from the LGBT community. The Church did not advocate for gay adoption and got a negative reaction from the LGBT community. In fact, it shut down its adoption services when the State tried to force the Church to ‘change its views.’

The Church did not marginalize anyone, but enormous financial and activist pressure was put on politicians and even heads of corporations to do things that though legal, are they right? That’s the question.

Pope Francis is right, we need to follow LGBT people on their journey, along with everyone else, but the impression I get from the media is: “Just shut up and accept it. And by the way, according to this or that poll, the numbers are up for acceptance. So the rest of you should get in line.” For what?

If I saw someone on the street who was injured or incapacitated, my first question would never be: “Are you LGBT?” But, the propaganda is telling me that I am automatically a hateful, bigoted and homophobic person if I do not agree with everything LGBT activists are doing. Everything.

Ed

 

[estesbob]

No. As a priest, I disagree with this suggestion.

Bishop McElroy, as the Bishop of San Diego, is the bishop of the diocese in which the Catholic Answers Forum is physically located. Thus, he is the direct shepherd of the forum as well as the ecclesiastical authority over those who work at the headquarters.

I think his voice should be separated out from other voices, in view of his pastoral jurisdiction, so that it can be heard and underscored.

Thank you to the original poster.

So to whom do I Apologize and exactly what is it I’m supposed to apologize for?

 

[edwest2]

In my Episcopal parish in San Francisco, there are many LGBT men and women – there are couples, some married, some living together, some just together. There are families with children. There are single gay and lesbian members. They serve at the altar, they read lessons, they sit on our Vestry, they preach, they teach, they are clergy and they are lay.

That is how we are inclusive. Is that similar in your parishes?

We are not Espiscopalians. The words “inclusive” and “diversity” are not doctrinal terms. Look to Catholic Church teaching on this subject to get the answers you are looking for. I do not create Catholic Church doctrine.

Ed

 

[tseleehw]

In my Episcopal parish in San Francisco, there are many LGBT men and women – there are couples, some married, some living together, some just together. There are families with children. There are single gay and lesbian members. They serve at the altar, they read lessons, they sit on our Vestry, they preach, they teach, they are clergy and they are lay.

That is how we are inclusive. Is that similar in your parishes?

Depending on the situation a gay person is in, it can be a problem. The Church cannot be seen to be approving of relationships which are disordered or irregular. So a single, celibate gay person would be able to serve in a ministry at our parish with no problem. Someone who is in a same-sex “marriage” would not be able to teach children’s faith formation, for example. They would not be able to be trusted to teach the true doctrines of the Church to the children.

In my archdiocese, it is the policy that anyone in an irregular or invalid marriage cannot serve in any formal ministry in the parishes. This applies to straight and gay parish members. There was a bit of a media controversy a few months ago when a parish priest fired the cantor at their parish because it was discovered he was in a same-sex “marriage”. There were even protesters outside the parish for awhile. Unfortunately, that’s the way it has to be if someone opposes Church doctrine. This is not done out of malice towards gay individuals, but because the Church cannot be seen to be approving of sinful marriages or situations.

I think the main issue in a lot of cases is that gay parish members want approval of their marriages, not mercy or forgiveness. You can’t offer mercy or accompaniment to someone who doesn’t want it. You can only do so much for them. At some point they have to examine their conscience and decide whether or not they can accept the teachings of the Church.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

With all due respect to Bishop McElroy, he needs to speak with someone at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith regarding certain words and terms that he finds problematic. That has nothing to do with me. I have never said anything hurtful to a gay person, much less threatened a gay person. And would never contemplate violence against anyone, unless I was in immediate danger.

This also ignores the open scandal of same-sex marriage, transgender bathroom bills and so on. Yes, straights are sinners but we don’t have Masturbation Pride Parades either. Growing up, I heard more negative things about blacks and hispanics, even though I have black and other races friends.

The media - and this is easily proven - is adding more gay married couples to TV shows and movies. Go to any LGBT activist site and you will see phrases like “we need to increase/accelerate acceptance.” Of what, exactly? Sure, there are straight adulterers, those who go to prostitutes and so on, but the media is obsessed with promoting LGBT behavior as perfectly normal. We don’t know what causes it. The only message I’m getting and seeing is - sodomy is OK, gay sex is OK, gay marriage is OK, transgender bathroom bills, etc. And who decided all of this is OK? Technically, no one knows if these behaviors are OK.

And LGBT news sites are obsessed with every word the Pope say about LGBT persons. The fact is, the Church did not advocate for gay marriage and got a negative reaction from the LGBT community. The Church did not advocate for gay adoption and got a negative reaction from the LGBT community. In fact, it shut down its adoption services when the State tried to force the Church to ‘change its views.’

The Church did not marginalize anyone, but enormous financial and activist pressure was put on politicians and even heads of corporations to do things that though legal, are they right? That’s the question.

Pope Francis is right, we need to follow LGBT people on their journey, along with everyone else, but the impression I get from the media is: “Just shut up and accept it. And by the way, according to this or that poll, the numbers are up for acceptance. So the rest of you should get in line.” For what?

If I saw someone on the street who was injured or incapacitated, my first question would never be: “Are you LGBT?” But, the propaganda is telling me that I am automatically a hateful, bigoted and homophobic person if I do not agree with everything LGBT activists are doing. Everything.

Ed

A bishop is properly the shepherd of his own diocese…as articulated in Lumen Gentium Chapter 3…and not an agent of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

His Excellency is not in need of having something explained to him. Rather, as shepherd, HE is instructing his flock.

If you are not part of his diocese, then no it does not directly concern you.

For any Catholic in his diocese, as their shepherd, they can certainly be implicated by him. With one who has authority over his flock, he can act on behalf of his flock such as apologising for the actions of anyone and everyone under his authority…or committing the resources of the diocese and people he governs as in declaring “The diocese of San Diego stands beside you and commits itself and its resources to helping you.”

This is true of any diocesan bishop in any diocese…and is expressive of the relationship that he has with his own flock.