San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics

[philipl]

Seriously? You need a citation to support the proposition that all of us are children of God?

But the church has always believed all of us are children of God.

 

[JosieN]

But the church has always believed all of us are children of God.

We Are Not All Children of God
Rachel Lu

This last Sunday, we were treated to the Gospel reading in which Christ is baptized by St. John the Baptist. It’s a compelling passage, especially because it focuses our attention on the purpose and meaning of baptism. The rambling, confused homily that we received on this topic (from an earnest-seeming seminarian whom I don’t know at all) sparked a later debate in the Lu household on a common error in the Church today. Why are Christians constantly stressing their solidarity with the rest of the world by claiming that “we are all children of God”?

I suppose some see this as a Christianized version of the sentiment that “all men are brothers.” Or maybe they just want to emphasize that God loves everyone, and that every life is precious. Which is true. All humans are made in God’s image, and Christ’s grace is available to all. Nevertheless, we aren’t all children of God. It’s actually quite important that people understand why this is.

We become children of God by adoption. This is mentioned in multiple places in the Bible, including Ephesians 1, but it is especially explained in Galatians 4 where it reads:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law: That he might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. Therefore now he is not a servant, but a son. And if a son, an heir also through God (Gal 4: 4-7).

It’s perfectly clear from this passage that we are not “sons” merely in virtue of being human. At birth we are “under the law,” still waiting for our redemption. We are God’s creatures, and his servants, but explicitly not his children. Only after we are formally received into God’s family can we declare ourselves his children.

What is the process by which we become God’s adoptive children? According to Church doctrine and tradition, it is baptism. Baptism is the door to Christian life, and the means by which we are grafted into God’s family. When we are baptized, we are freed from the sentence (though not the residual effects) of original sin. No longer condemned under the law, we become cross-bearers, and heirs to Christ’s kingdom.

To modern ears, denying some people the label “children of God” seems mean-spirited. It’s as though we want to cast the unbaptized into second-tier humanity, and gloat over our special relationship with God. Obviously, we should not make the distinction in that spirit, but if anyone takes offense, he should be reminded that all are invited to become God’s children. It’s free and (initially) painless. Call your local parish for details.

We really do need to make the distinction, however, because without it we lose sight of the tremendous importance of this sacrament. That’s bad for a number of reasons.

Read the rest of the article here.

crisismagazine.com/2015/children-god

 

[TMC]

We Are Not All Children of God
Rachel Lu

This last Sunday, we were treated to the Gospel reading in which Christ is baptized by St. John the Baptist. It’s a compelling passage, especially because it focuses our attention on the purpose and meaning of baptism. The rambling, confused homily that we received on this topic (from an earnest-seeming seminarian whom I don’t know at all) sparked a later debate in the Lu household on a common error in the Church today. Why are Christians constantly stressing their solidarity with the rest of the world by claiming that “we are all children of God”?

I suppose some see this as a Christianized version of the sentiment that “all men are brothers.” Or maybe they just want to emphasize that God loves everyone, and that every life is precious. Which is true. All humans are made in God’s image, and Christ’s grace is available to all. Nevertheless, we aren’t all children of God. It’s actually quite important that people understand why this is.

We become children of God by adoption. This is mentioned in multiple places in the Bible, including Ephesians 1, but it is especially explained in Galatians 4 where it reads:

But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law: That he might redeem them who were under the law: that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. Therefore now he is not a servant, but a son. And if a son, an heir also through God (Gal 4: 4-7).

It’s perfectly clear from this passage that we are not “sons” merely in virtue of being human. At birth we are “under the law,” still waiting for our redemption. We are God’s creatures, and his servants, but explicitly not his children. Only after we are formally received into God’s family can we declare ourselves his children.

What is the process by which we become God’s adoptive children? According to Church doctrine and tradition, it is baptism. Baptism is the door to Christian life, and the means by which we are grafted into God’s family. When we are baptized, we are freed from the sentence (though not the residual effects) of original sin. No longer condemned under the law, we become cross-bearers, and heirs to Christ’s kingdom.

To modern ears, denying some people the label “children of God” seems mean-spirited. It’s as though we want to cast the unbaptized into second-tier humanity, and gloat over our special relationship with God. Obviously, we should not make the distinction in that spirit, but if anyone takes offense, he should be reminded that all are invited to become God’s children. It’s free and (initially) painless. Call your local parish for details.

We really do need to make the distinction, however, because without it we lose sight of the tremendous importance of this sacrament. That’s bad for a number of reasons.

Read the rest of the article here.

crisismagazine.com/2015/children-god

Crisis magazine is entitled to their opinions, but hardly a credible source. They can barely conceal their contempt for our Pope. I don’t take much that they say seriously.

 

[JosieN]

Crisis magazine is entitled to their opinions, but hardly a credible source. They can barely conceal their contempt for our Pope. I don’t take much that they say seriously.

This is not a new teaching or belief. It is quite the opposite. Thinking that we are all children of God without baptism is what is new. The belief we become children of God at baptism has been taught from the beginning of Christianity. We are all God’s creation, and I believe this is where the confusion is. Some assume that makes us God’s children. Christians for centuries have believed in what the Bible teaches us about baptism, which is that after we are formally received into God’s family, we can declare ourselves his children.

 

[graciew]

This is not a new teaching or belief. It is quite the opposite. Thinking that we are all children of God without baptism is what is new. The belief we become children of God at baptism has been taught from the beginning of Christianity. We are all God’s creation, and I believe this is where the confusion is. Some assume that makes us God’s children. Christians for centuries have believed in what the Bible teaches us about baptism, which is that after we are formally received into God’s family, we can declare ourselves his children.

Saying " we humbly ask forgiveness…"

…the 79-year-old pontiff asked God to forgive the persecution of the Jews. "We are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood."
**
Pope Saint John Paul II.**
Rome ,March 12,2000

Ask an apologist
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=994424&highlight=Children+of+God

 

[JosieN]

Saying " we humbly ask forgiveness…"

…the 79-year-old pontiff asked God to forgive the persecution of the Jews. "We are deeply saddened by the behaviour of those who in the course of history have caused these children of yours to suffer, and asking your forgiveness we wish to commit ourselves to genuine brotherhood."
**
Pope Saint John Paul II.**
Rome ,March 12,2000

Ask an apologist
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=994424&highlight=Children+of+God

biblehub.com/john/1-12.htm

 

[TMC]

This is not a new teaching or belief. It is quite the opposite. Thinking that we are all children of God without baptism is what is new. The belief we become children of God at baptism has been taught from the beginning of Christianity. We are all God’s creation, and I believe this is where the confusion is. Some assume that makes us God’s children. Christians for centuries have believed in what the Bible teaches us about baptism, which is that after we are formally received into God’s family, we can declare ourselves his children.

I don’t agree, obviously. But I also wonder why it is so important that we deny that the vast majority of people are children of God?

 

[Used2beSherryG]

My question: How are LGBT Catholics excluded from the life of the Church?

There is no Catholic Church with a person who asks for your sexual orientation before you go in. And a practical observation: there is no way to tell if someone is gay or lesbian. None.

Everyone is welcome at Mass. Everyone.

God bless,
Ed

 

[zz912]

But the church has always believed all of us are children of God.

John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

1 John 3:1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,a we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.

4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.

I don’t agree, obviously. But I also wonder why it is so important that we deny that the vast majority of people are children of God?

It’s important to be very clear. All people can be called children of God in the sense that God is the Creator of all. But it is through baptism that we are actually made adopted children of God.

 

[graciew]

When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Good! That leaves many of us out of the equation right now if we are going literal.
And also John Paul and Francis. Sounds good.
What a relief!!
I’m out before anything else is quoted that pins me down!
Have a nice day all!

 

[JosieN]

I don’t agree, obviously. But I also wonder why it is so important that we deny that the vast majority of people are children of God?

I will try my best to explain it as I see it, and use Bible quotes also.

Jesus Christ came into the world to restore us to God’s friendship so we could become adopted children of God. Without Jesus, nothing is restored. His death on the cross was His gift to us, without it we are not worthy. Today the vast majority of people do not accept Jesus Christ, the people who do accept Him want to be baptized. They also baptize their children, because they want their children to be adopted into God’s family. The reason it is so important is because baptism is the door to Christian life, and the means by which we are grafted into God’s family.

We should know the importance of it and the importance of believing in the name of the only Son of God. Do you think God wants us to overlook the importance of His Son who came into to the world and died on the cross for us? This is being overlooked when we call everyone, even atheists children of God. Many atheists teach false beliefs, some mock Him. Can they really be called children of God? Some religions believe in false gods, this is condemned in the first commandment. You must believe in the name of the only Son of God and follow His teachings. He told His apostles to out and baptize and preach to the nations. If you are a follower of Christ, why would you not want to be baptized?

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God, John 3:18

"But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, **John 1:12
**

 

[TMC]

I will try my best to explain it as I see it, and use Bible quotes also.

Jesus Christ came into the world to restore us to God’s friendship so we could become adopted children of God. Without Jesus, nothing is restored. His death on the cross was His gift to us, without it we are not worthy. Today the vast majority of people do not accept Jesus Christ, the people who do accept Him want to be baptized. They also baptize their children, because they want their children to be adopted into God’s family. The reason it is so important is because baptism is the door to Christian life, and the means by which we are grafted into God’s family.

We should know the importance of it and the importance of believing in the name of the only Son of God. Do you think God wants us to overlook the importance of His Son who came into to the world and died on the cross for us? This is being overlooked when we call everyone, even atheists children of God. Many atheists teach false beliefs, some mock Him. Can they really be called children of God? Some religions believe in false gods, this is condemned in the first commandment. You must believe in the name of the only Son of God and follow His teachings. He told His apostles to out and baptize and preach to the nations. If you are a follower of Christ, why would you not want to be baptized?

Whoever believes in him will not be condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God, John 3:18

"But to those who did accept him he gave power to become children of God, to those who believe in his name, **John 1:12
**

I understand that perspective. But I don’t agree that recognizing that all people are children of God in any way cheapens or diminishes Christ or Christians. To say that only Christians are children of God is to say that God is not Father to the vast majority of people living now, or who have ever lived. I don’t look at it that way, and I don’t think God does. I believe God is Father to us all.

 

[Brendan]

CCC

1243 The white garment symbolizes that the person baptized has "put on Christ,"42 has risen with Christ. The candle, lit from the Easter candle, signifies that Christ has enlightened the neophyte. In him the baptized are "the light of the world."43

**The newly baptized is now, in the only Son, a child of God **entitled to say the prayer of the children of God: “Our Father.”

1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God, clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb"44 and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ. The Eastern Churches maintain a lively awareness of the unity of Christian initiation by giving Holy Communion to all the newly baptized and confirmed, even little children, recalling the Lord’s words: "Let the children come to me, do not hinder them."45 The Latin Church, which reserves admission to Holy Communion to those who have attained the age of reason, expresses the orientation of Baptism to the Eucharist by having the newly baptized child brought to the altar for the praying of the Our Father

With the sacrament of baptism, the faithful become children of God, and brothers and sisters with each other, says Benedict XVI.

The Pope reflected on the sacrament of baptism today before praying the Angelus together with those gathered in St. Peter’s Square. In the morning, the Pontiff had baptized 14 newborn babies in the Sistine Chapel, a tradition on the feast of the Baptism of Our Lord.

“With this sacrament,” the Pontiff explained, “man really becomes son — son of God. From that point the goal of his life consists in arriving at, in a free and conscious way, that which from the very beginning was his destination as man.”

zenit.org/articles/baptism-makes-us-children-of-god-says-pope/

1. But in reality the child is a person long before it can show it by acts of consciousness and freedom. As a person, the child is already capable of becoming, through the sacrament of Baptism, a child of God and a coheir with Christ

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19801020_pastoralis_actio_en.html

And I make you a question: Which of you knows the date of your baptism? Certainly, not all of you. Therefore, I invite you to go and search for the date, asking, for example, your parents, your grandparents, your godparents, or going into the parish. It is very important to know, because it is a date to celebrate: it is the date of our rebirth as children of God

.
Pope Francis - Angelus Address Jan 10, 2016 ( Feast of the Baptism of the Lord)
insidethevatican.com/popeswords/angelus/on-the-baptism-of-our-lord

 

[JosieN]

I understand that perspective. But I don’t agree that recognizing that all people are children of God in any way cheapens or diminishes Christ or Christians. To say that only Christians are children of God is to say that God is not Father to the vast majority of people living now, or who have ever lived. I don’t look at it that way, and I don’t think God does. I believe God is Father to us all.

I see it differently, I see the importance of Jesus Christ diminished. When everyone is believed to be children of God, without even acknowledging Jesus Christ or His sacrifice for us, I feel it is like a rejection of Him and His teachings. He came and suffered on the cross for us, to restore us to God’s friendship so we could be called God’s adopted children. To me calling those who have not accepted Him or His teachings is like saying He had no part in this, or our salvation.

 

[Brendan]

CCC

1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte “a new creature,” an adopted son of God, who has become a "partaker of the divine nature,"69 member of Christ and co-heir with him,70 and a temple of the Holy Spirit.71

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

I think the Church needs to make clear that this is a top down issue. The treatment of gays wasn’t initiated from the laymen. Talk to any gay Catholic over the age of 55. They’ll most likely tell you that they felt rejected by Church, not necessarily their family. Laymen are not, mostly, responsible for these types of things, just as with child abuse cases.

Yes, it is top-down: It started with God and worked its way down through the hierarchy.

Gays were not welcome by the Law of God as written in Leviticus etc.

Nor by what Jesus or St. Paul said in regard to marriage and sexual depravity.

Let’s lay the blame where it belongs: with God!

 

[JosieN]

It’s important to be very clear. All people can be called children of God in the sense that God is the Creator of all. But it is through baptism that we are actually made adopted children of God.

I agree, we are made adopted children of God at Baptism. Original sin also disappears at Baptism.

Jesus instituted the sacrament of Baptism to apply to each individual soul the atonement which He made on the Cross for original sin.

Jesus will not force His gift upon us, the gift of supernatural life for which He paid. He holds the gift out to us hopefully, but each of us must freely accept it.

We make that acceptance by receiving the sacrament of Baptism.

When the sacrament of Baptism is administered, the spiritual vacuum which we call original sin disappears as God becomes present in the soul, and the soul is caught up into that sharing of God’s own life which we call sanctifying grace.

beginningcatholic.com/baptism.html

 

[otjm]

I think the Church needs to make clear that this is a top down issue. The treatment of gays wasn’t initiated from the laymen. Talk to any gay Catholic over the age of 55. They’ll most likely tell you that they felt rejected by Church, not necessarily their family. Laymen are not, mostly, responsible for these types of things, just as with child abuse cases.

Laymen and lay women are just as prone to prejudice as anyone else - collar or no collar.

And as to sexual abuse, the greatest source of sexual abuse is within families, and relatives and close friends of families. Your veiled reference to sexual abuse by priests notwithstanding.

 

[otjm]

Yes, it is top-down: It started with God and worked its way down through the hierarchy.

Gays were not welcome by the Law of God as written in Leviticus etc.

Nor by what Jesus or St. Paul said in regard to marriage and sexual depravity.

Let’s lay the blame where it belongs: with God!

How about we separate out sexually active gays from those who are not? I don’t recall God condemning anyone who was not sinning…

Homosexuals are people, just as heterosexuals are. And both sin; and both can be forgiven their sin.

Gay sexual activity was not welcome the Law of God as written in Leviticus,etc. But then, neither was fornication or masturbation or adultery.

However, some hold that gays should be subject to shunning and condemnation for their attraction - not activity, but attraction - to the same sex. And that holding is not applied with equal vigor to heterosexuals who engage in immoral sexual behavior by those who shun and condemn.

 

[irenaeus1]

I understand that perspective. But I don’t agree that recognizing that all people are children of God in any way cheapens or diminishes Christ or Christians. To say that only Christians are children of God is to say that God is not Father to the vast majority of people living now, or who have ever lived. I don’t look at it that way, and I don’t think God does. I believe God is Father to us all.

I guess I’m curious to know upon what basis do you make the assertion that all people are children of God? And what distinction do you make then regarding Christians being considered children of God?