San Diego bishop calls for a practical ‘apology’ to L.G.B.T. Catholics

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As for your statement that you hear Catholics say gays are disgusting and are going to hell** just because of temptations**, while I haven’t walked a mile in your moccasins, I find it hard to believe. Were you referring to other denominations?
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No. I have heard it more from other denominations because of my background but I have heard it from Catholics.
You said, “A lot of conservative Catholics do say very nasty things about gays.” But you haven’t walked a mile in my Conservative Catholic moccasins, and based on that gratuitous accusation, it appears that you can’t tell the difference between Conservative and Progressive Catholics.
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Conservative Catholics are orthodox Catholics. That is, we believe and practice what the Church teaches, including the teaching that gays always must be treated with dignity.
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No. I am not mistaking Progressive Catholics with Conservative Catholics. Progressive Catholics are the type more likely to say “it’s ok. The rules of the old testament were cultural and don’t apply”. I was simply using the designations people use for themselves. If someone portrays or identifies themselves as a Conservative Catholic then that is I what I will refer to them as such so long as they’re not doing something so outrageous that I can’t take them seriously. If they consider homosexuality to be a sin then they are much more likely to identify as conservative than progressive.

You can not simply say “they aren’t conservative if they say that” and expect those outside the church to automatically disregard them. If someone says they are a conservative catholic then those outside the Church are going to believe them. Especially when we do not see vocal voices within the church (until recently) speaking out about how gays do deserve to be treated with respect. That was always the teaching, but was it always taught?

Nor did I make a gratuitous accusation. I simply recounted my experiences. You may call me a liar if you wish but that is what I have seen and heard. Is it all Catholics? No. Even if we simply look at those who consider themselves Conservative Catholics I still wouldn’t claim it is all. I said ‘a lot’. By definition that simply means a large number. It doesn’t even mean the majority necessarily – in fact I think the majority tend to keep silent. Which I consider no better. If a fellow Catholic is making such comments about gays and we do not pull them up on it, then we are just as in the wrong. Our silence is not taken as disapproval for those comments but as approval. We need to pull them up every single time. We don’t know who is listening and these comments cut deep because they have been heard from so many people in so many places.
 
CatholicSheila said:
You obviously think you’ve played a trump card. You’ll have to explain it ‘cause I don’ t get your point.
  1. I did not reduce anyone solely to their orientation. I’ve never actually seen anyone within the LGBT community do this either although I have seen them accused of this. Sometimes it is the only part of who someone is that is discussed because it is the only part relevant to the conversation. Just as when I’m discussing religion I tend to talk about the fact that I’m catholic and I leave out of the discussion the fact that I’m female, Australian and gay unless they somehow become relevant.
  2. Been offended because you don’t like something that isn’t personally about you and been deeply hurt because someone has said very hurtful things about you aren’t the same thing. My post was about the latter.
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I don’t need to play any cards.
  1. This label has only been highlighted by the media and would be largely be ignored where it not for the constant pushing of their (media and activists’) agenda. If it isn’t a label then why mention it all? I’m quite happy to ignore it as are millions of others so why keep talking about it? In the past, I’ve spoken to people for days and the subject has never come up. You’ve contradicted yourself in this post compared with your last one.
  2. Unintelligible
Over to you…
 
CatholicSheila said:
No. I have heard it more from other denominations because of my background but I have heard it from Catholics.

No. I am not mistaking Progressive Catholics with Conservative Catholics. Progressive Catholics are the type more likely to say “it’s ok. The rules of the old testament were cultural and don’t apply”. I was simply using the designations people use for themselves. If someone portrays or identifies themselves as a Conservative Catholic then that is I what I will refer to them as such so long as they’re not doing something so outrageous that I can’t take them seriously. If they consider homosexuality to be a sin then they are much more likely to identify as conservative than progressive.

You can not simply say “they aren’t conservative if they say that” and expect those outside the church to automatically disregard them. If someone says they are a conservative catholic then those outside the Church are going to believe them. Especially when we do not see vocal voices within the church (until recently) speaking out about how gays do deserve to be treated with respect. That was always the teaching, but was it always taught?

Nor did I make a gratuitous accusation. I simply recounted my experiences. You may call me a liar if you wish but that is what I have seen and heard. Is it all Catholics? No. Even if we simply look at those who consider themselves Conservative Catholics I still wouldn’t claim it is all. I said ‘a lot’. By definition that simply means a large number. It doesn’t even mean the majority necessarily – in fact I think the majority tend to keep silent. Which I consider no better. If a fellow Catholic is making such comments about gays and we do not pull them up on it, then we are just as in the wrong. Our silence is not taken as disapproval for those comments but as approval. We need to pull them up every single time. We don’t know who is listening and these comments cut deep because they have been heard from so many people in so many places.
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There are no such things. There are ONLY Catholics and labels and divisions do not apply to the Catholic Church. If you want to find different churches that are non Catholic, there are thousands to choose from but none of them are Catholic.

Happy to help
 
Prodigal_40s said:
There are no such things. There are ONLY Catholics and labels and divisions do not apply to the Catholic Church. If you want to find different churches that are non Catholic, there are thousands to choose from but none of them are Catholic.

Happy to help
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She was replying to KSU.
 
CatholicSheila said:
No. I have heard it more from other denominations because of my background but I have heard it from Catholics.

No. I am not mistaking Progressive Catholics with Conservative Catholics. Progressive Catholics are the type more likely to say “it’s ok. The rules of the old testament were cultural and don’t apply”. I was simply using the designations people use for themselves. If someone portrays or identifies themselves as a Conservative Catholic then that is I what I will refer to them as such so long as they’re not doing something so outrageous that I can’t take them seriously. If they consider homosexuality to be a sin then they are much more likely to identify as conservative than progressive.

You can not simply say “they aren’t conservative if they say that” and expect those outside the church to automatically disregard them. If someone says they are a conservative catholic then those outside the Church are going to believe them. Especially when we do not see vocal voices within the church (until recently) speaking out about how gays do deserve to be treated with respect. That was always the teaching, but was it always taught?

Nor did I make a gratuitous accusation. I simply recounted my experiences. You may call me a liar if you wish but that is what I have seen and heard. Is it all Catholics? No. Even if we simply look at those who consider themselves Conservative Catholics I still wouldn’t claim it is all. I said ‘a lot’. By definition that simply means a large number. It doesn’t even mean the majority necessarily – in fact I think the majority tend to keep silent. Which I consider no better. If a fellow Catholic is making such comments about gays and we do not pull them up on it, then we are just as in the wrong. Our silence is not taken as disapproval for those comments but as approval. We need to pull them up every single time. We don’t know who is listening and these comments cut deep because they have been heard from so many people in so many places.
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I can’t make a detailed response because I don’t know when you’re talking about non-practicing-minding-there-own-business gays; militant, practicing gays; or all gays.

I didn’t and wouldn’t call you a liar. I will say that it’s amazing how much information you overhear after Church from self-characterizing Catholics who say out loud that non-practicing gays are all going to hell, etc.
 
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