San Francisco’s Most Holy Redeemer Church hosts drag show

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Perhaps there will be a change when the Archdiocese of SF gets a new archbishop. I think I heard that Archbishop Niederauer is getting toward retirement age and had some health concerns recently.

:gopray2:
 
Another_Mary said:
Perhaps there will be a change when the Archdiocese of SF gets a new archbishop. I think I heard that Archbishop Niederauer is getting toward retirement age and had some health concerns recently.
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It is true that Archbishop Niederauer will turn 76 this June. So presumably he has already turned in his mandatory letter of resignation.

However, the situation in San Francisco may be more complicated than those of us outside understand. The previous archbishop of SF was Cardinal Levada, whom Pope Benedict selected to succeed him as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. I don’t think Cardinal Levada could be accused of being doctrinally weak, but from what I recall he tolerated the situation at Most Holy Redeemer.

As Br JR has cautioned, we really have little understanding of the situation at MHR and in San Francisco.
 
Most Holy Redeemer has been involved in these shenanigans for years. I’m not saying we should all ring the Vatican to complain about it, I’m just saying it’s a well known fact.

Up until very recently, the official parish website had photo galleries of their participation in past San Francisco gay pride parades. They had their own float with the parish name displayed on it, and banners also with the parish name. Now, the links are still there, but they link to a forbidden page. I think a few years ago they were ordered to stop participating, but they continued to participate, they just didn’t use anything with the parish name on it.

Members who are living in same sex relationships serve openly in ministries such as the pastoral council, EMHCs, and lay readers.

Concerned parishioners of the Archdiocese have documented every questionable event and activity that has occurred at the parish. Anyone who is interested can view it here: sanfrancisco-catholic.com/mhr_chron_10104.pdf

Some of the events are not as big of issues as others. For example, the chronology includes some activities parishioners participate in at S & M clubs. Not much can be done about this of course. But it also includes the big issues, such as participation in the pride parade.
 
Valentine_Angel said:
Brother JR, I fully agree with both of your posts. And I definitely believe one should have all of the facts before rushing to judgement. That being said, if MHRC is indeed hosting and therefore endorsing a drag fashion show, and if I lived in that diocese, I would follow the St. Paul method of correction. I’d go to them personally, one on one, to try to make them understand what’s being done is wrong and scandalous; if that didn’t work, go back taking my friends from the diocese. If I still didn’t convince them, I and my friends would make our displeasure known to the Bishop. And if he didn’t want to convince them, we’d all picket/protest both the Bishop and MHRC. I think it’s bad to say, oh, I’ll leave it alone, they’re not hurting anybody because it does hurt the whole Body. That parish may be independent of the rest of us canonically but what results is not. I’d be holding the sign “WWJW–Not THAT! Quit ripping at His seamless garment!”
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When I see an article like this one that says that something good and something inappropriate is happening and then I read the responses from people and they’re mixed, it makes me wonder where is the truth? Unless I’m asked to investigate it, my tendency is to sit back and wait and see the rest of the story.

For example, I know that Catholics from many parishes have participated in Gay Pride parades and some have carried signs naming their parish. However, when the questions were asked, the pastor had nothing to do with it. It’s very hard to control your parishioners’ actions, even if they do drive you crazy.

It says that the bishop asked the pastor not to celebrate mass and that he has not. It speculates that it may have something to do with these inappropriate activities. The truth is that we don’t know.

It also says that this was a fund raiser, which does not make it a violation of moral law or canon law. It’s under the category of common sense or lack thereof. However, not being assigned to that parish, I don’t know what the repercussions would be for not renting out the hall for a charity. No one has said that anything in the show was immoral, just that it was a rather “unique” form of entertainment. It begs the question, what would have been the most sensible thing to do? I don’t pretend to know the answer, because I don’t live in that community.

The list in the San Francisco Catholic does not impress me. I’ve seen lists like that floating around in other dioceses and have had to struggle from throttling someone, because they got their facts wrong. That happens a lot, especially when it’s a hot issues or several hot issues. People don’t always get the facts right or report the part that they find offensive and leave out part of the story. The other side does the same thing. It reports all of the good that happened or came out of a situation and “forget” to mention the nonsense and the lack of good judgment involved.

That’s where I’m coming from when I say, let’s wait for the rest of the story, because these are not all the pieces. Something is missing. I have no idea what it is. That’s what my gut tells me.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂

PS. I should have added that the reason that I feel there is more is because this was Cardinal Levada’s jurisdiction. The Cardinal is very orthodox, an excellent theologian, very pastoral, and a straight shooter. Some of you are saying that this history goes back to his days as the bishop. There has to be more.
 
Let those that haven’t sinned cast the first stone. Not that dressing in drag is a sin. Lighten up. The beauty of catholicism is that we turn the other cheek and embrace everyone. Especially the lepers and pariahs.
 
Another_Mary said:
Perhaps there will be a change when the Archdiocese of SF gets a new archbishop. I think I heard that Archbishop Niederauer is getting toward retirement age and had some health concerns recently.

:gopray2:
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He is indeed 75 and has tendered his resignation. In fact **today **is his Golden Jubilee. Now would be an excellent time to pray for the new Bishop-- it’s a diocese that must be very difficult to shepherd.

Please join in here to pray for all the priests and the new Archbishop.
 
Maria_das_Neves said:
I’m not sure how up to date this information is, but something is going on!
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A 2009 post at Rorate Caeli indicates
The faithful spontaneously wishing to attend Father’s private daily Mass in San Francisco (in Most Holy Redeemer) need to contact him directly at [the rectory phone number] He cannot publicize a private daily Mass until he has a stable group of 30, per the diocesan guidelines.
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An unofficial list of of Extraordinary Form locations in the US and Canada indicates that the EF began being offered there in December 2011.
 
JReducation said:
Slow down people. First of all, there are too many cooks in this kitchen. Who of us on this forum belongs to that parish? Canonically, unless we belong to that parish, we don’t get a voice.

The other problem here is that you can’t excommunicate every time someone does something wrong or that looks wrong. To excommunicate you must violate one of the seven canons that carry the penalty of excommunication. This situation is not even in the canons, much less an excommunication offense.

There may be a disciplinary issue here, but even that’s not too clear from the responses to the article. It sounds like there are several sides to this story and none of them are being completely reported.

To be honest, I read the article and came away confused. I understood that they put on a show as a benefit for a charity. I also understood that the pastor has not celebrated Sunday mass there in 2012, apparently at the request of the bishop.

But when you read the comments by some parishioners, there is another side to their parish that the article does not speak about. Apparently they have the EF, produce vocations and their parishioners had no problems renting facilities, because apparently there was nothing immoral happening.

To be honest, these are all conflicting pieces of information and all of them are probably pieces of the truth. Yet, the whole truth is not represented in one article.

My suggestion to everyone here is to watch and observe. We may learn something and to keep our noses out of someone else’s parish. Intrusion in parishes is something that even the Vatican refuses to do unless you’re talking about violations of canon law, which there seem to be none.

Again, there may be violations of discipline and lack of good taste. In the little that is reported, nothing violates canon law. Therefore, the Vatican will not get involved. I don’t blame the Vatican either. It’s a rather confusing situation with many sides and all incomplete.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
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I don’t belong to MHR, but I can report this: I know the pastor, as he used to be the pastor of my parish. I’ve listened to tons of his homilies, and he never came off as promoting a gay or liberal agenda. What’s going on at MHR is a complete 180 from what went on at my parish when he was the pastor. I do have my ideas as to what accounts for the 180, aside from the obvious neighborhood demographic difference, but I’ll not speculate on here about it.
 
Havard said:
I don’t belong to MHR, but I can report this: I know the pastor, as he used to be the pastor of my parish. I’ve listened to tons of his homilies, and he never came off as promoting a gay or liberal agenda. What’s going on at MHR is a complete 180 from what went on at my parish when he was the pastor. I do have my ideas as to what accounts for the 180, aside from the obvious neighborhood demographic difference, but I’ll not speculate on here about it.
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There are photos of this pastor blessing the float the parishioners took to the pride parade with holy water before they left. I don’t think that he instituted the gay agenda at the parish, but it doesn’t seem like he’s interested in putting a stop to it either.
 
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