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revejj2000
Guest
This Sunday’s Gospel (Twenty-third Week in Ordinary Time, Cycle A) fits this problem with the Speaker of the House. This issue is the focus of my homily this weekend.
Fr. Bro.
Fr. Bro.
San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer addresses recent comments made by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi
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rien
Guest
Let’s not pile on Arch. Niederhaur as to belief. Most US bishops do not beleive IMO. The priestly sex scandal would never have happened if they did. And if they still did they would have resigned, many of them. That would have happened in the corproate world. I guess we should expect less from our bishops.
JP2 and Benedict mostly go along. They could appoint othodox dynamic bishops period. But they don’t. They appoint or appointed a mix.
IMO many in the Curia don’t believe. If they did the collapse of the church would not have happened.
Its all a game - even IMO liberal bishops like Wuerl fianlly at the last minute seemingly speaking out. I personally do not believe their sincerity for a NY minute.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Let us pray for this bishop and all of our bishops for the tremendous spiritual burden they carry for each one of us.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B
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gakroeger
Guest
Oh wow, when did this happen? Must have missed it…
Here I have been under the misconception that the Catholic Church was alive and well after 2000 years. Did it collapse while I was sleeping last night? Was Christ’s promise that the gates of hell would not prevail against it broken? Don’t think so…
This is exactly why Archbishop Niederauer needs to speak out publicly. His silence, unfortunately gives credence to this kind of misinformation.
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
This is a more complicated issue and it makes sense for the Archbishop to say that he has to speak to Pelosi.
For example, does anyone here know if Pelosi believes that abortion is a mortal sin? Would she ever have an abortion or encourage someone in her family to have one? Perhaps she is opposed to it morally, but doesn’t think the law has a place in banning it. The archbishop needs to discuss the details with her before barring her from communion.
I just hope he doesn’t let her off the hook.
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gakroeger
Guest
That is very charitable and technically correct; however, it stretches the imagination to think the smart Nancy Pelosi does not know that the church teaches abortion is a mortal sin. If she thinks it is not, then again she is disputing the Church’s teachings.
Regarding her thinking that abortion is morally wrong but does not think there should be a ban on it; that is like saying she thinks murder of an adult is morally wrong but doesn’t think there should be a law against it. I don’t think many people would subscribe to that…
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KathleenElsie
Guest
If your Bishop left you a message to come visit with him what you you do?
- call, fax or e-mail him right back to see when you can talk in person because you want to be forthright with your Bishop
- have someone else write him a letter explaining how busy you are and mail it from another state or country
- avoid the situation and him as long as you could (like maybe 28 years)
- write a news paper artical or speech telling the Catholic Church it is wrong
- phone, write, fax, or e-mail a refusal to comply
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maggiemay2u
Guest
BULLSEYE!
ALL the readings seem to be shouting to the bishops to lead this flock and stop worrying about whether or not they’ll be part of the society scene, or viewed as archaic by the “progressive” faithful.
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maggiemay2u
Guest
Let’s be clear. The archbishop made his initial statement regarding about his not knowing Pelosi was pro abortion during the 2006 elections. That’s when she, and several other Catholic legislators, signed the a document that “acknowledged the ‘moral leadership’ of the Catholic Church,” but asserted “primacy of conscience” regarding abortion".That is very charitable and technically correct; however, it stretches the imagination to think the smart Nancy Pelosi does not know that the church teaches abortion is a mortal sin. If she thinks it is not, then again she is disputing the Church’s teachings.
Regarding her thinking that abortion is morally wrong but does not think there should be a ban on it; that is like saying she thinks murder of an adult is morally wrong but doesn’t think there should be a law against it. I don’t think many people would subscribe to that…
He either failed to act or Madame Speaker ignored him.
If he needed a role model for cover, then he needed look no farther then a couple of hours by car. In Sacramento he would find his brother bishop, William Weigand. Bishop Weigand advised then governor, Gray Davis. to abstain from communion due to his pro abortion politics. Not popular with the California political cocktail circuit, but wildly endearing to his flock.
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KathleenElsie
Guest
If I am not mistaken the Mayor of SF says he is catholic.
Has the San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer ever made any statement on Newsom’s very public anti-catholic teachings and views?
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maggiemay2u
Guest
Unless he is ordered to do so, or the Catholic population across the nation pelts him with negative calls and letters, I don’t anticipate in His Grace making any public statements about this abysmal behavior by his errant son.
Personally, I’d like to see His Grace appointed assistant at Basilica di Santa Maria Maggiore., Absent that, or if with that, I’ll continue to pray for him, and myself, for the lack of faith I have in him.
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onetruechurch
Guest
Here is the part of the Archbishop’s address that disturbs me. He stated, “What of Catholics who find themselves questioning the teaching of the church or experiencing questions?” His answer was,"…they are welcome to partake of Holy Communion as long as they are striving to understand what the church professes and to resolve confusion and doubt."
Does that mean we can all rationalize away the seriousness of our favorite differences with the church and still receive communion? For example, if a person were taught it is a mortal sin to steal from their boss but rationalized that the boss didn’t need the money so in this case it is okay. This person is “questioning the teaching of the church” and during this period of striving to understand why it is wrong he would be welcome to receive communion.
Of course, the longer this confused person can stay away from his confessor the better…right Nancy?
Does that mean we can all rationalize away the seriousness of our favorite differences with the church and still receive communion? For example, if a person were taught it is a mortal sin to steal from their boss but rationalized that the boss didn’t need the money so in this case it is okay. This person is “questioning the teaching of the church” and during this period of striving to understand why it is wrong he would be welcome to receive communion.
Of course, the longer this confused person can stay away from his confessor the better…right Nancy?
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rien
Guest
He is a Benedict appointment. The problem lies as much in Rome. JP2 could have remade an orthodox, beleiving episcopate. He appointed over 20 plus years more than 80% of the current episcopate. He chose to give us a mix of beleiving and not so beleiving shepaards. One reason I find efforts to canonize him as “the great” suspect at best, ludicrous at worst.
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rien
Guest
Interesting that the Wuerls and Niederhauers advance to key dioceses and the Chaptut’s are kept middle level by Rome.I sometimes ask myself if I am going over the top on my views and comments about our political figures and their “know it all” attitudes and support for issues that I know to be morally wrong.
One of the first Bishops to make a public statement denouncing Ms. Pelosi’s false statements about Church teachings was Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Denver.
Archbishop Chaput has also written a book on “Serving the Nation by Living Our Catholic Beliefs in Political Life” titled RENDER UNTO CAESAR.
I have just started reading his book, however, in the first chapter he states;
“Over the past decade I’ve grown increasingly tired of the church and her people being told to be quiet on public issues that urgently concern us. Worse, Catholics themselves too often stay silent out of a misguided sense of good manners. Even those of us who are bishops can sometimes seem more concerned with discretion and diplomacy than speaking plainly and acting clearly.”
Maybe Archbishop Niederauer should read it…
The critical appointment of a bishop coming in England will sadly I am afraid confirm this pattern. Orthodox English Catholics are not optimistic of what Benedict will do.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
And who are you and what is your background to say what bishops do and do not believe. I have been trying to stay out of exchanges such as this, but your statement was just too judgmental and self righteous to let go unchallenged. Remember you cannot read others hearts. And if you can or think you can, beware of where this non gift is coming from. You will remain in my prayers. Further, this is not the topic of this thread. Do not try to lead it away from the issue. The belief of bishops is not the topic and never should be.
Deacon Ed B
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gakroeger
Guest
AMEN again Deacon Ed. We sometimes need a reminder that we are supposed to be Christians. At least most of us here.
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Ender
Guest
This has become as public a confrontation as it is possible to imagine and personally I think that is a good thing. It is not credible to me that Pelosi will recant her pro-abortion position but she will be faced with the prospect of choosing to retain her standing with the Democratic faithful or with the Church.
Given the public nature of the archbishop’s request to discuss the issue he can no more resist taking his next step than Pelosi can resist hers. The confrontation seems absolutely inevitable since neither side would seem to have any way to resolve this under the table.
I have no problem with Archbishop Niederauer’s letter; he is publicly doing everything he is required to do as her pastor. The decision will rest with Pelosi, not the archbishop. If she does not recant or if she refuses to meet with him I believe he has no other option than to request that she refrain from communion whether this is what he wants or not.
Finally, if that is what happens, there is no reasonable way to claim that the Church is meddling in politics as the situation was initiated with Pelosi herself. Again, this is a good thing. I wouldn’t have thought it possible but it appears that pro-abortion Catholics have finally backed the bishops into a situation they cannot sidestep.
Ender
Given the public nature of the archbishop’s request to discuss the issue he can no more resist taking his next step than Pelosi can resist hers. The confrontation seems absolutely inevitable since neither side would seem to have any way to resolve this under the table.
I have no problem with Archbishop Niederauer’s letter; he is publicly doing everything he is required to do as her pastor. The decision will rest with Pelosi, not the archbishop. If she does not recant or if she refuses to meet with him I believe he has no other option than to request that she refrain from communion whether this is what he wants or not.
Finally, if that is what happens, there is no reasonable way to claim that the Church is meddling in politics as the situation was initiated with Pelosi herself. Again, this is a good thing. I wouldn’t have thought it possible but it appears that pro-abortion Catholics have finally backed the bishops into a situation they cannot sidestep.
Ender
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Rolltide
Guest
Nancy Pelosi has accepted Archbishop Niederauer’s invitation to “converse”:
wdtprs.com/blog/2008/09/speaker-pelosi-accepts-archbp-niederauers-invitation-to-converse/
wdtprs.com/blog/2008/09/speaker-pelosi-accepts-archbp-niederauers-invitation-to-converse/
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stbruno
Guest
Maybe that’s why there was a 4.1 earthquake in SF earlier this weekend.
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RobbyS
Guest
My concern is that Pelosi has a misplaced confidence in her opinion because her private judgement in this matter is supported by the opinion of priests she has known. The matter of conscience is often confused with the faculty of free will. One must also, if Catholic, be open to the possibility of personal error and where one’s conscience is blind to it, accept the judgement of the Church. There is no right to disobedience to legitimate authority. Rather, no right to claim to be a subject to that authority while at the same time repudiating it. To put it in terms of relations, one cannot be at once a faithful husband and an adulerer.
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