San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer addresses recent comments made by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi

[elts1956]

Archbishop, Pelosi to talk about communion

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has accepted an invitation from San Francisco’s archbishop to discuss whether she should continue to receive communion at the Catholic Church in the wake of comments she made about abortion.

San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer said he had received letters and e-mails from “many Catholics” expressing dismay over Pelosi’s remarks, in which she said the matter of when life begins remained controversial within the church. He said many of them questioned whether she should be able to receive communion from the church.

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Pelosi made the remarks in an Aug. 24 interview with “Meet the Press” host Tom Brokaw after Brokaw said that the Catholic Church believes strongly that life begins at conception.

Her comments have been criticized by several Catholic Church officials, and Niederauer described them as being “in serious conflict” with the church in the Sept. 5 issue of Catholic San Francisco.

Niederauer concludes that, based on Catholic Church statements, it is up to him as Pelosi’s pastor to address whether she may continue to receive communion. He then invites the Speaker “into a conversation with me about these matters.”

“Let us pray together that the Holy Spirit will guide us all toward a more profound understanding and appreciation for human life, and toward a resolution of these differences in truth and charity and peace,” Niederauer wrote.

In a Sept. 5 response hand-delevered to Niederauer on Friday, Pelosi thanks him for the invitation and his gracious remarks about hehr love for the church and her Catholic faith.
“I welcome the opportunity for our personal conversation and to go beyond our earlier most cordial exchange about immigration and needs of the poor to Church teaching on other significant matters,” she wrote. " I hope that we can meet at your earliest convenience.

“I join you in your hope and prayer that the Holy Spirit will guide our discussions in truth and charity and peace.”

Niederauer said he wrote the article because it is his responsibility “to oppose erroneous, misleading and confusing positions when they are advanced.” He described Pelosi’s comments as “opposed” to church teaching.

Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl earlier had issued a statement criticizing the comments, which he said “were incorrect.”

In an August interview on C-SPAN, Pelosi said that if communion were withheld from her, it would be “a severe blow.”

“It depends on the bishop or a certain region, and, fortunately for me, communion has not been withheld and I’m a regular communicant, so that would be a severe blow to me if that were the case,” she said.

Niederauer quoted a section of the catechism of the Catholic Church to underline his point that when life begins is not controversial within the church. “Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception,” according to the catechism. “Since the first century the church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.”

Niederauer also criticized an Aug. 26 statement from Pelosi’s office about her comments on “Meet the Press.” In the statement, Pelosi’s office said that while the Catholic Church believes life begins at conception, “many Catholics” do not agree with this view.

“Authentic moral teaching is based on objective truth, not polling,” Niederauer wrote. He noted that in 1861, polls in different states showed different views on slavery, but this did not mean that slavery was moral in one state and not in another.

Niederauer praised Pelosi as “a gifted, dedicated and accomplished public servant” who has supported bills that have helped implement some of the Catholic Church’s social teachings.
He also noted that Pelosi has “often said how highly she values her Catholic faith, and how much it is a source of joy for her.”

thehill.com/leading-the-news/archbishop-wants-to-talk-to-pelosi-about-receiving-communion-2008-09-08.html

Hi Estes. Do you know the date they are to “talk”? Unfortunately, the article you posted didn’t also mention Niederauer’s “wiggle” paragraph in which he said, so to speak, that there are some circumstances in which the person is so CONFUSED and MISUNDERSTANDS the topic, we (more or less) cannot judge them. Go back and read his original statemnt, if you haven’t already, you will see what I am talking about. What is not to UNDERSTAND Chruch teaching???

 

[elts1956]

Archbishop, Pelosi to talk about communion

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has accepted an invitation from San Francisco’s archbishop to discuss whether she should continue to receive communion at the Catholic Church in the wake of comments she made about abortion.

San Francisco Archbishop George H. Niederauer said he had received letters and e-mails from “many Catholics” expressing dismay over Pelosi’s remarks, in which she said the matter of when life begins remained controversial within the church. He said many of them questioned whether she should be able to receive communion from the church.

http://ad.thehill.com/adlog.php?ban...capping=0&cb=5e5f9cf44de71673710a2747d780ca23

Pelosi made the remarks in an Aug. 24 interview with “Meet the Press” host Tom Brokaw after Brokaw said that the Catholic Church believes strongly that life begins at conception.

Her comments have been criticized by several Catholic Church officials, and Niederauer described them as being “in serious conflict” with the church in the Sept. 5 issue of Catholic San Francisco.

Niederauer concludes that, based on Catholic Church statements, it is up to him as Pelosi’s pastor to address whether she may continue to receive communion. He then invites the Speaker “into a conversation with me about these matters.”

“Let us pray together that the Holy Spirit will guide us all toward a more profound understanding and appreciation for human life, and toward a resolution of these differences in truth and charity and peace,” Niederauer wrote.

In a Sept. 5 response hand-delevered to Niederauer on Friday, Pelosi thanks him for the invitation and his gracious remarks about hehr love for the church and her Catholic faith.
“I welcome the opportunity for our personal conversation and to go beyond our earlier most cordial exchange about immigration and needs of the poor to Church teaching on other significant matters,” she wrote. " I hope that we can meet at your earliest convenience.

“I join you in your hope and prayer that the Holy Spirit will guide our discussions in truth and charity and peace.”

Niederauer said he wrote the article because it is his responsibility “to oppose erroneous, misleading and confusing positions when they are advanced.” He described Pelosi’s comments as “opposed” to church teaching.

Washington Archbishop Donald W. Wuerl earlier had issued a statement criticizing the comments, which he said “were incorrect.”

In an August interview on C-SPAN, Pelosi said that if communion were withheld from her, it would be “a severe blow.”

“It depends on the bishop or a certain region, and, fortunately for me, communion has not been withheld and I’m a regular communicant, so that would be a severe blow to me if that were the case,” she said.

Niederauer quoted a section of the catechism of the Catholic Church to underline his point that when life begins is not controversial within the church. “Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception,” according to the catechism. “Since the first century the church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable.”

Niederauer also criticized an Aug. 26 statement from Pelosi’s office about her comments on “Meet the Press.” In the statement, Pelosi’s office said that while the Catholic Church believes life begins at conception, “many Catholics” do not agree with this view.

“Authentic moral teaching is based on objective truth, not polling,” Niederauer wrote. He noted that in 1861, polls in different states showed different views on slavery, but this did not mean that slavery was moral in one state and not in another.

Niederauer praised Pelosi as “a gifted, dedicated and accomplished public servant” who has supported bills that have helped implement some of the Catholic Church’s social teachings.
He also noted that Pelosi has “often said how highly she values her Catholic faith, and how much it is a source of joy for her.”

thehill.com/leading-the-news/archbishop-wants-to-talk-to-pelosi-about-receiving-communion-2008-09-08.html

As you can tell, I deleted several of your paragraphs for the sake of room. Your understanding of the Churches position is correct. That said, I will again point out that to question the core beliefs of the bishops is the issue I am addressing. That and that alone. It is highly presumptuous to do so and places one in a position of being judge and jury over people whom the accuser does not even know, never spoke with, never met or had any dealing with. That is what I am addressing. To make blanket statements such as were made is beyond the pale. We may not agree with the disciplinary actions or lack thereof, but that is a far cry from the presumption , which in my opinion is sinful, especially when vocalized or put in writing such as this was, that the actual beliefs of bishops, who make up the magisterium, are not orthodox. Then to even question the appointment of bishops by popes is to think that one has all the answers and the ones chosen by the Holy Spirit are somehow lacking. If you cannot see that or understand that, then I can only say you are in my prayers, which you are anyhow.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

Well Deac. Pray very hard for me, because I remain presumptuous on this matter. I feel VERY DEEPLY about the killing of innocents. In this day and age one, me for example, becomes very angry when someone who is to uphold the teachings of the Church does not do it in an obvious and final way about a law that is so obviously wrong and does not chastize those that support it, especially those in public office. What are we, as Catholics, to think, when we are not supported in OUR beliefs?: So call me presumptuous, willful and full of pride. I’ll work on those, but not in this instance. I am in awe of no man, even a “Prince of the Church” unless he has some backbone.

 

[Ender]

Given that over a dozen bishops have spoken out on this issue you have to ask yourself: is mine one of the dozen and if not, why not? I wrote to my bishop and asked him to speak out publicly. In two prior letters the response was quite prompt, even though they were somewhat peremptory. In this case it’s been almost two weeks and I still haven’t heard back. I think this is an issue that is hard for all of them to deal with but I also think it is something that we all need to encourage them to do.

Have you written your bishop?

Ender

 

[elts1956]

Given that over a dozen bishops have spoken out on this issue you have to ask yourself: is mine one of the dozen and if not, why not? I wrote to my bishop and asked him to speak out publicly. In two prior letters the response was quite prompt, even though they were somewhat peremptory. In this case it’s been almost two weeks and I still haven’t heard back. I think this is an issue that is hard for all of them to deal with but I also think it is something that we all need to encourage them to do.

Have you written your bishop?

Ender

No I haven’t. mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[elts1956]

davidcoit;4154367:

By your definition: “Either you are Catholic or you are pro-abortion,” makes me “Catholic” even though I’m a practicing Anglican. I toe the the pro-life line and believe in the 9 non-negotiables. Does this make me more catholic than most catholics?

You’ve got that right.

 

[elts1956]

davidcoit;4154367:

By your definition: “Either you are Catholic or you are pro-abortion,” makes me “Catholic” even though I’m a practicing Anglican. I toe the the pro-life line and believe in the 9 non-negotiables. Does this make me more catholic than most catholics?

Another Archbishop not afraid to speak out…

Article on Bloomberg.com

Montreal Archbishop Returns Medal After Abortion Doctor Honored

By Doug Alexander

Sept. 11 (Bloomberg) – Cardinal Jean-Claude Turcotte, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Montreal, is returning his Order of Canada medal because the award was also bestowed on abortion doctor Henry Morgentaler this year.

This announcement generated a great deal of criticism on the part of those who do not share Dr. Morgentaler's views regarding the respect for human life,'' Turcotte said in a Canada NewsWire statement. I feel obliged in conscience to reaffirm my convictions regarding the respect for human life, from conception to death.’’

Turcotte said he’s renouncing the title of Officer of the Order of Canada, the country’s highest civilian honor, and returning the insignia awarded to him in 1996. He joins five other Order of Canada winners whose awards were returned after Morgentaler was appointed to the elite group. Two medals were sent back by living recipients; three by families or foundations of deceased honorees.

Morgentaler fought for two decades to make abortion legal in Canada.

To contact the reporter on this story: Doug Alexander in Toronto at dalexander3@bloomberg.net

My kind of Cardinal. We need more like him.

 

[elts1956]

I remember the cartoons from 1960 of an evil looking pope holding strings to a puppet which was John F. Kennedy. It will be very difficult for an Catholic to win the Presidency again. The hint of a United States President being subservient to a foreign potentate is anathema to most Americans.

It is one thing for a bishop to deny communion to someone who is active in the abortion clinics; it is quite another for a bishop to pressure a public official to legislate a particular brand of morality.

Morality is best communicated by example, not by force.

• kathie :bowdown:

Balony! For one thing he would not be pressuring Pelosi to legislate anything. He would be asking her to make a choice. The choice is up to her. I think she has made it.

 

[elts1956]

As you can tell, I deleted several of your paragraphs for the sake of room. Your understanding of the Churches position is correct. That said, I will again point out that to question the core beliefs of the bishops is the issue I am addressing. That and that alone. It is highly presumptuous to do so and places one in a position of being judge and jury over people whom the accuser does not even know, never spoke with, never met or had any dealing with. That is what I am addressing. To make blanket statements such as were made is beyond the pale. We may not agree with the disciplinary actions or lack thereof, but that is a far cry from the presumption , which in my opinion is sinful, especially when vocalized or put in writing such as this was, that the actual beliefs of bishops, who make up the magisterium, are not orthodox. Then to even question the appointment of bishops by popes is to think that one has all the answers and the ones chosen by the Holy Spirit are somehow lacking. If you cannot see that or understand that, then I can only say you are in my prayers, which you are anyhow.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

…question the core beliefs of the bishops is the issue I am addressing. I am not questioning the Bishops core beliefs, I am asking why he appears to be ignoring them. He knows better.
…that the actual beliefs of bishops, who make up the magisterium, are not orthodox. So far, he is giving scandal to millions of Catholics. He could correct this very easily by bending to the Will and Teachings of the Church in a public way to a public member of his congregation…
Then to even question the appointment of Bishops???by popes is to think that one has all the answers and the ones chosen by the Holy Spirit are somehow lacking. I don’t think I said anything about his appointment by anyone. And I am not talking in plurals but of only one who is as fallible as anyone else unless he is in accord with the rest of the Magesterium. I hope he is and I hope he makes it public soon.
If you would like to see why I am so concerned about the lack of leadership regarding abortion, please read muskieman #82.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

…question the core beliefs of the bishops is the issue I am addressing. I am not questioning the Bishops core beliefs, I am asking why he appears to be ignoring them. He knows better.
…that the actual beliefs of bishops, who make up the magisterium, are not orthodox. So far, he is giving scandal to millions of Catholics. He could correct this very easily by bending to the Will and Teachings of the Church in a public way to a public member of his congregation…
Then to even question the appointment of Bishops???by popes is to think that one has all the answers and the ones chosen by the Holy Spirit are somehow lacking. I don’t think I said anything about his appointment by anyone. And I am not talking in plurals but of only one who is as fallible as anyone else unless he is in accord with the rest of the Magesterium. I hope he is and I hope he makes it public soon.
If you would like to see why I am so concerned about the lack of leadership regarding abortion, please read muskieman #82.

I think you forgot what you posted. Go back and read your own post to which I responded. You will remain in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

 

[gakroeger]

Now Bishop W. Francis Malooly, Biden’s Bishop has made a statement which in no uncertain terms (unlike Bishop Niederauer’s statement) states that Sen. Biden is WRONG and that he will do his best to help Sen. Biden and all others who mistakenly claim that the beginning of life is a matter of religious opinion to undestand how crucial the sanctity of human life is to a just society.

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13779

 

[maggiemay2u]

Now Bishop W. Francis Malooly, Biden’s Bishop has made a statement which in no uncertain terms (unlike Bishop Niederauer’s statement) states that Sen. Biden is WRONG and that he will do his best to help Sen. Biden and all others who mistakenly claim that the beginning of life is a matter of religious opinion to undestand how crucial the sanctity of human life is to a just society.

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=13779

Did I miss the part where he said his errant son was to abstain from the sacraments until he fully understood the ramifications of his voting for abortion? If not, he might want to send him Archbishop Chaput’s book–maybe he can get it in CD or ipod.

 

[elts1956]

I think you forgot what you posted. Go back and read your own post to which I responded. You will remain in my prayers.
Deacon Ed B

I have gone back and still don’t see it. Would you please be more specific for my soul’s sake? Thanks.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I have gone back and still don’t see it. Would you please be more specific for my soul’s sake? Thanks.

I too went back. My response was to post #42 by rein. You quoted my response later questioning it and I assumed you were the original poster. Sorry. My answer to rein on post #42 stands as to what I said. I would hope you also would accept it. Read his post and see if you agree.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[elts1956]

This is a more complicated issue and it makes sense for the Archbishop to say that he has to speak to Pelosi.

For example, does anyone here know if Pelosi believes that abortion is a mortal sin? Would she ever have an abortion or encourage someone in her family to have one? Perhaps she is opposed to it morally, but doesn’t think the law has a place in banning it. The archbishop needs to discuss the details with her before barring her from communion.

I just hope he doesn’t let her off the hook.

I apologize in advance by being harsh, but when it comes to abortion, to me, there are no ifs, ands ,nor buts about it. To ignore a major teaching of the church (the Church Magesterium has said abortion is wrong and the belief it is not morally wrong can be the cause of denial of reception of the Sacraments.) If anyone can read, or hear, I think Pelosi should be able to do that unless she has a companion with her twenty four hours a day interpreting English for her, oh that’s right, she speaks Spanish. HOW CAN ONE NOT KNOW KILLING AN INNOCENT CHILD IS A MORTAL SIN. Politics be d-----d. Which is the higher law?

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I apologize in advance by being harsh, but when it comes to abortion, to me, there are no ifs, ands ,nor buts about it. To ignore a major teaching of the church (the Church Magesterium has said abortion is wrong and the belief it is not morally wrong can be the cause of denial of reception of the Sacraments.) If anyone can read, or hear, I think Pelosi should be able to do that unless she has a companion with her twenty four hours a day interpreting English for her, oh that’s right, she speaks Spanish. HOW CAN ONE NOT KNOW KILLING AN INNOCENT CHILD IS A MORTAL SIN. Politics be d-----d. Which is the higher law?

Well, lots of things are mortal sins, but we don’t make them all illegal. This is more complicated than just about whether abortion is a mortal sin. It’s about whether its a mortal sin to avoid making abortion illegal.

 

[elts1956]

Well, lots of things are mortal sins, but we don’t make them all illegal. This is more complicated than just about whether abortion is a mortal sin. It’s about whether its a mortal sin to avoid making abortion illegal.

“It’s about whether its a mortal sin to avoid making abortion illegal.” Sorry the brain isn’t computing right now. Can you state this another way? Thanks.

---

 

[elts1956]

Did I miss the part where he said his errant son was to abstain from the sacraments until he fully understood the ramifications of his voting for abortion? If not, he might want to send him Archbishop Chaput’s book–maybe he can get it in CD or ipod.

That is a good question. Did Bishop Malooly give Biden an ultimatum?

The only way I see these people such as Biden, Pelosi etc. can be helped to understand the Sanctity of Life is to get their attention. A strong, unyielding stance is needed in this. No holds barred. I am sick ad nausium of people who are supposed to be in a leading postion, more so when they are religious, trying to be politically correct, or saying “maybe” the person Biden, Pelosi, “just doesn’t understand” just in case those people may get their political feelings hurt.

 

[elts1956]

Did I miss the part where he said his errant son was to abstain from the sacraments until he fully understood the ramifications of his voting for abortion? If not, he might want to send him Archbishop Chaput’s book–maybe he can get it in CD or ipod.

If you don’t know anything about him why do you assume that he is “hiding from the controversy about Catholic politicians in his dioceses making false statements about church teachings when other Bishops around the country are speaking up”

John

We know from what he has said and not said, that he has not taken a definite stand against an action that is known to be wrong.
He hasn’t been making false statements about doctrine, but is avoiding making the right ones.

 

[elts1956]

“It’s about whether its a mortal sin to avoid making abortion illegal.” Sorry the brain isn’t computing right now. Can you state this another way? Thanks.

---

Okay, it’s working now. I understand. Of course it is about making it illegal. I think it is a moral obligation to do so. But once it is illegal I think it is also a moral obligation for us as Christians to help out the women who find themselves in the difficult situations which may have previously forced them to have an abortion.

I have heard of individual parishes setting up funds and collecting things for unwed mothers, ie. Birthright, but have never seen, and I may have missed it, the Chruch per se telling our parishes a fund must be set up for them. Perhaps the initiation of such a fund must come from the parishioners???

 

[rciadan]

Well, lots of things are mortal sins, but we don’t make them all illegal. This is more complicated than just about whether abortion is a mortal sin. It’s about whether its a mortal sin to avoid making abortion illegal.

It may be my brain malfunctioning, but please list for me the mortal sins that are not illegal? Thank you.