San Francisco Cathedral Architecture

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Before I relate this story, I want to state that I and my husband are generally appreciative of modern/experimental architecture. But my own view is that church architecture developed the way it did over the centuries for good reasons. If one understands the marriage of theology and aesthetics that went into the development of Gothic cathedral architecture, the new wave of modern churches can seem to be going in an opposite direction just for the sake of being new or shocking.

But anyway. My husband and I are recent converts; I was confirmed last Easter and my husband, in December. I showed him pictures of OLAC without telling him what it was and he wasn’t impressed, even though (as stated above) we have no prejudice against this kind of thing as a rule.

When we got to the statue of Mary, he did kind of a double take, and said, “Who’s that?”

I said, “Mary.”

He said, “Wait, that building is a church?!”

I said, “Yep. A cathedral, actually.”

He said, “That can’t be Mary.”

I said, “It’s an ‘inclusive’ Mary.”

He said, “Sorry, no. That’s a dude. You’ll never convince me otherwise.
Or does the “inclusiveness” include gender?”

I said, “I don’t know - maybe?”

He said, “Suggesting that Mary could have been a man… well, that violates basic biology for one thing. The fail, it is pretendous.
Are you QUITE sure these people are Catholics?”

End of story: draw your own conclusions. 🙂
 
When I see the LA cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a Borg cube spaceship.

When I see the San Francisco cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a washing machine agitator.

When I see the Oakland cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a nuclear power plant cooling tower.

When I see a rustic, ramshackle roadside chapel with a dirt floor and a roof of scrap wood built by poor and uneducated peasants in Guadalajara, I see a domus Dei, a house of God.

The heresy of Modernism, that synthesis of all errors, has not only infiltrated our theology, but also our art and architecture. And the amazing thing is that many otherwise educated Catholics don’t recognize it.
 
Lepanto said:
When I see the LA cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a Borg cube spaceship.

When I see the San Francisco cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a washing machine agitator.

When I see the Oakland cathedral I see not a domus Dei, but a nuclear power plant cooling tower.

When I see a rustic, ramshackle roadside chapel with a dirt floor and a roof of scrap wood built by poor and uneducated peasants in Guadalajara, I see a domus Dei, a house of God.

The heresy of Modernism, that synthesis of all errors, has not only infiltrated our theology, but also our art and architecture. And the amazing thing is that many otherwise educated Catholics don’t recognize it.
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The other problem with church architecture is that sometimes the beautiful churches themselves will remain, but the high altars and altar rails would be gutted.
 
ibkc said:
…I showed him pictures of OLAC without telling him what it was and he wasn’t impressed, even though (as stated above) we have no prejudice against this kind of thing as a rule…
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Have you ever been to OLAC? So many of the comments I hear are based not on actual visits, but on the most unflattering photos of the place circulating on the web.

While I don’t care for Gothic in the least (I’ll take Saint Peter’s or Hagia Sophia anytime) there is no question that there are thousands of churches in this world that are pieces of art. People often travel and attend services because of the stunning architecture. OLAC is not about putting itself on display, but about putting the Eucharist on display and it does so magnificently.

One enters through a 300’ long ambulatory. It’s a slight uphill stroll that is designed to give people a few moment to leave their secular concerns behind. One can stop to study the stunning ecclesial artwork along the way, or stop at any one of the many side chapels including the stunning Blessed Sacrament Chapel.

As you turn the corner into the church itself one is met by gorgeous 16th ecclesial furnishings. The main church is all about the Eucharist. There are no stations of the cross on the walls to detract. There are tapestries depicting the Communion of Saints.

The floor sloped slightly (not at all like a theater) so the view of the altar is prime from any seat. It does not have a “huge warehouse” feel to it at all. Anyone who claims that has clearly never visited OLAC.

The pews themselves are the best I have ever sat in; the pipe organ the best I have ever heard in a church; and the sound system is remarkable. I don’t care too much for the furnishings but I do love the altar.

Sad all that can’t be caught on video else there might be fewer OLAC-haters/experts out there.
 
Navarre said:
OLAC is not about putting itself on display, but about putting the Eucharist on display and it does so magnificently.
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I’ll take your words at face value.

So then, is everyone ready to play "What is this Catholic thing?"

Question #1:
http://www.splendoroftruth.com/curtjester/Pics/LA_tabernacle.jpg

Any guesses?

It’s the tabernacle. It’s where they put the Eucharist on display. Please note that it is not cartoony.
One enters through a 300’ long ambulatory. It’s a slight uphill stroll that is designed to give people a few moment to leave their secular concerns behind.
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Once you’ve scaled the climb, take a minute to get your bearings. See if you’re near the “big aisle” or the “little aisle”.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
There are no stations of the cross on the walls to detract.
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What, what? That’s a curious statement. Detract? The Passion of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is a detraction? I want to charitably hope you meant distract, but I’m not sure that helps your case any.
It does not have a “huge warehouse” feel to it at all.
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Exhibit C:


The prosecution rests.

WhollyRoamin’ locuta est, causa finita est.
 
WhollyRoamin said:
I’ll take your words at face value.
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LOL! Sure you will!
WhollyRoamin said:
It’s the tabernacle. It’s where they put the Eucharist on display. Please note that it is not cartoony.
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Not in the least. Have you ever been inside the Blessed Sacrament Chapel at OLAC? No, huh? Have you ever been inside of the OLAC? No, huh? LOL! 😉
WhollyRoamin said:
Once you’ve scaled the climb, take a minute to get your bearings. See if you’re near the “big aisle” or the “little aisle”.
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LOL! No “climb” is required. Not that you would know because you haven’t been there, but that shot was taken from a 50’ boom. It’s not at eye-level. You actually thought it was, didn’t you?!? LOL! That’s a coffee-in-the-nose laugh!! You really don’t know much about OLAC do you? There is a decent book out by Msgr. Francis Weber for those commenting on the OLAC without any personal knowledge of it. OK, next? 😉
WhollyRoamin said:
What, what? That’s a curious statement. Detract? The Passion of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is a detraction? I want to charitably hope you meant distract, but I’m not sure that helps your case any.
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Yes indeedy. The focus of the Mass is the Sacrifice upon the altar. In some Gothic churches you can barely see the altar. Not at OLAC. It’s the focal point of the whole place. And that’s where our focus should be. Not looking at the stations or praying the rosary or wondering what the priest is doing against the far wall. That’s why OLAC has a chapel with the stations in it for those wishing to engage in that devotion.

Your final picture from the sanctuary DOES show just how great of a “climb” it is… LOL!!

Thank God you’re not a lawyer! LOL! A little knowledge is a dangerous thing… 😉
 
I think the interior of Our Lady of Angels isn’t too bad, statuaries and real art can be put in it and make it look more Catholic, but the exterior is just horrible, it does look like a Borg Cube, sterile and bankrupt like most modern architecture.
 
Yes. Even in not-so-far-away Orange County it’s known as Taj Mahony.

One poster rightly points out that Gothic isn’t really indiginous to California, or to the United States. But Cubism?

A cathedral, or even a parish church, in the California Mission style is more to my taste. Leave the theater in the round, washing machines, circus tents and other innovations to some other use.

I hope that no other priest gets the shock a priest-friend got when assigned to a new parish. He arrived to find that all the pews of a modern but traditional church had been replaced by folding chairs facing an altar on a riser along a side wall of the church, while the tabernacle was behind some sort of screen across what had been the altar area of what had been the sacntuary. The organ was still in its loft, but the speakers had been moved so that all the music blasted at the congregation from one side.😦
 
Navarre said:
No, it’s not worth one’s time… It’s an ignorant and polemical work that does nothing to educate.
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oh really? I read the book and I think Michael Rose is right on.
Ultra modern churches today do not connect with the people.
What really cracks me up is you have people like Father Richard Vosko shoving this type of architecture down everyones throat and saying Vatican II called for this!
 
mystified said:
Yes. Even in not-so-far-away Orange County it’s known as Taj Mahony.

One poster rightly points out that Gothic isn’t really indiginous to California, or to the United States.
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The Gothic style is, however, indigenous to Catholicism, which transcends nations and cultures. Kind of like Gregorian chant, another indigenous Catholic art form which many liberals seem determined to consign to history’s landfill.

I’m not stuck on Gothic architecture only; I just think it is one of several styles that is most appropriate and desirable for cathedrals.
 
Navarre said:
LOL! Sure you will!

Not in the least. Have you ever been inside the Blessed Sacrament Chapel at OLAC? No, huh? Have you ever been inside of the OLAC? No, huh? LOL! 😉
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Ive never been inside this church:
View attachment 5099

Nor this one:
View attachment 5100

But hey, look… Pictures!!!
If only we had pictures of OLAC… then we would be able to tell what it looks like…

Oh, thats right… Its got the cloak engaged so that in pictures its disguised as a big ugly warehouse spaceship guarded by the Klingon warrior Kortar.
Silly humans, you think your cameras will work here?
Not on this cathedral…
 
To IBKC and others,
My comments should not be taken to mean an aversion to Gothic architecture. Certainly it has been the norm for a very long times and it is a far cry better than some of the strange things we are seeing mostly in the last 50-60 years.
 
I haven’t seen any of the “cathedrals” mentioned with my own eyes, (nor do I have any plans of sending money that I don’t have in order to do so), but for me the photos are more than enough. I’ve seen most of them before, and they seem to be quite typical of neo-catholic architecture. And neo-catholic architecture is rather similar to neo-catholic liturgy: IMHO, it simply misses the point.

For Latin Rite churches, (Orientals and Easterner have their own styles, and I’m not addressing that here), I consider the Gothic style lovely. So too, Romanesque, and “Spanish Mission,” etc. (I’m not a fan of baroque or rococo but, fine, include them too.)

That said, though, to me this “neo-catholic” art and architecture is just too “meaningful” (in the worst (read:1960s-70s post-conciliar) sense of the word) for my taste. I can deal with “modern” art and architecture to a degree, but I cannot deal with “meaningful modern” at all, whether in the architecture, or the art, and most especially in the context of religion.

But, it’s art and architecture. People can tell me how gorgeous it is, and how reverent it is, etc, give all sorts of reasons. How nice. They are entitled to their opinion and I’m entitled to mine.
This is not dogma. It’s art. It’s a matter of taste. If I don’t like it, I don’t like it.
 
Navarre said:
LOL! Sure you will!

Not in the least. Have you ever been inside the Blessed Sacrament Chapel at OLAC? No, huh? Have you ever been inside of the OLAC? No, huh? LOL! 😉
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We know quite well that you are fond of your cathedral as you are of frequent LOL-ing. To each their own. I, for one, love a good German Limburger cheese, but I would not try to convince you that it doesn’t stink.
 
Sir_Anthony said:
I think the interior of Our Lady of Angels isn’t too bad, statuaries and real art can be put in it and make it look more Catholic, but the exterior is just horrible, it does look like a Borg Cube, sterile and bankrupt like most modern architecture.
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Have you ever actually been to OLAC? I would be surprised if you have based on your comments…

Just what is “real art?” Like it or not those tapestries (woven in Belgium) are world-class pieces of artwork. I’ve never met anyone who has actually seen that in person that wasn’t a bit awesed by them. What would make it a “little more Catholic” than tapestries of Jesus Christ and the Communion of Saints? Did the inclusion of Mother Theresa somehow bother you? Just exactly what would adding “statues” accomplish other than to clutter things up?

I will admit that I dislike some furnishings (cathedra, ambo) but the tapestries and the altar are wonderful. The main crucifix is disturbingly real and it’s a world-class piece of artwork but I might prefer something a touch less realistic, even though some crucifixes seem to be designed to help us forget how He suffered for us.

Nothing “horrible” about the exterior. It’s actually a fairly handsome building made of architectural concrete with a copper and bronze roof and trim. It sits beautifully on the lot and the plaza is very nice. Not my favorite for a church, but sure not “horrible.”

It just lacks the gingerbread foof that’s part of Gothic architecture. You know, the stuff that’s first to fall into disrepair when facility maintenance budgets are cut? You can see it all across the USA…
 
ibkc said:
The Gothic style is, however, indigenous to Catholicism, which transcends nations and cultures. Kind of like Gregorian chant, another indigenous Catholic art form which many liberals seem determined to consign to history’s landfill.

I’m not stuck on Gothic architecture only; I just think it is one of several styles that is most appropriate and desirable for cathedrals.
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So are many other styles, many of which are of far greater antiquity and in my opinion, beauty.

A Gothic cathedral would have looked silly perched on the OLAC site. I personally would have preferred a cathedral based more on the California Mission-style (OLAC obviously took some design points from the venerable California Missions), but I would take OLAC over a Gothic structure for Los Angeles any day.
 
Cavaille-Coll said:
We know quite well that you are fond of your cathedral as you are of frequent LOL-ing. To each their own. I, for one, love a good German Limburger cheese, but I would not try to convince you that it doesn’t stink.
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I’m not fond of the “style” of OLAC. It really doesn’t have any. But after going there for Mass several times I just have to admit to myself that it does a great many things well. Actually better than any other church I have ever set foot in. Further I guess it gets a bit tiring to hear the same canned diatribes based on the same two dozen pictures floating around on the web (I am still waiting for the infamous picture sisters who danced around the altar when the cathedral was first opened to appear.)

I know possibly a dozen plus people (possibly including myself) who used the same virulent and childish slurs some used here to describe OLAC before spending time there. Not one person continued to afterwords. Some fell in love with it, others like me came to appreciate the things it does so well with regard to the celebration of the Mass. Still others remained fairly negative about it, but they saw enough good in the structure to realize they would appear like ignorant fools to others who had actually been to OLAC if they weren’t more accurate in their descriptions.
 
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