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UtahMaggie
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So who thinks that B16 made a mistake appointing Bishop Niederauer to the Archdiocese of San Francisco?
SanFrancisco bishop Thinks Gay Propaganda Film Brokeback Mountain is "Very Powerful"
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frommi
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Anyone who thought he was going to clone Fabian Bruskewitz and send him to every see in America.
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Libero
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It just makes sense, which gays in SF are going to get along with this bishop, if on the day of his ordination, he goes in all guns blazing firing out remarks about how terrible homosexuality is? I don’t really understand why nobody gets this. Part of the sucess of a bishop, is down to how popular he is, and how much his parishoners like him, they will not like him, if he goes out of his way (on the first week of the job) to try and condemn a part of them. It merely shows that B16 does not want to turn his back on the homosexual Catholics - so he has appointed a bishop whom he knows shall be very good at communicating with them.
Who do you think they will prefer? The new Archbishop, the one who wants to talk and get to know them. Or the old Archbishop Levada - the man who led a march through the city to stop gay marriage? It is merely a different approach to the matter.
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estesbob
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I would prefer a Bishop who uphold Catholic Teachings-as Levada did when he marched against so called homosexual marriage.
It is fine for the new Archbishop to talk tto and get to know homosexuals as long has his talk always ends with him telling those engage in homosexual behavior that their behavior is immoral, sinful, disordered and puts their immortal soul at risk.
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UtahMaggie
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Very well said. I agree with you 100%
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miguel
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It’s also possible the Pope didn’t know the man he appointed…that he appointed him based on the recommendations of others…possibly Levada as someone suggested, but I don’t think we know that either. Bottom line…we don’t really know the Popes mind in this appointment. All we know is the track record of the appointee. And just because we know it, doesn’t mean the Pope knows it.
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Libero
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Yes, that is very possible, having said that, the pope does not strike me as the type of person to do that, but then again, i dont know him.
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UtahMaggie
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It seems pretty clear to me that many have already made up their minds about Archbishop Niederauer. Since he didn’t come in with a fire and brimstone speach, some have already decided that he won’t be a good leader. Not very Catholic-like if you ask me. It’s obvious that no matter what he does from here on out, these people will always have a problem him. They are not even going to give him a chance. I’m interested to hear comments from these individuals as time goes on.
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estesbob
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No one is asking for a fire and brimstone speech-merely an acknowledgement that he will uphold the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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irenaeus1
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Why does this mean that we have our minds made up - as if we couldn’t change our minds if and when the bishop actually acted in a way becoming of a shepherd? Listen, when a group like Dignity (which is a gay and lesbian ministry that is not recognized by Rome - and with good reason) endorses a bishop, there is legitimate reason for concern.
In Christ,
Irenaeus
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Libero
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Why does there have to be the assumption he won’t? He merely said Brokeback Mountain was a powerful film - which, it is, otherwise, nobody here would be complaining about him or the film. He has not done anything contrary to the churches teachings, in fact all he has done is shown the love of Christ - I really cannot see what the problem in doing that is. It seems to me that a bishop should be far more friendly and gentle in conveying Gods message, taking his time to ensure everyone understands it, rather than an agressive quick shouting match that involves him quoting the bible many times (I know there is ground in between
)Is there reason for concern - many gay and lesbian Catholics feel like the undesirables of the church, as if they are unwanted. If they have the courage to approach a bishop, then they are going to be crushed if the bishop starts condemning them, making them feel bad - Dignity has picked up on the fact that the new Archbishop is kind, friendly and approachable - they are merely sending accross a message that says “Don’t be affraid to get to know him”.
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estesbob
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Actually their is no ground in between. The Church is clear that homosexual behavior is disordered and a mortal sin. If the Bishop wants to comment on a movie thats fine-but to call it “powerful” and not also comment on the fact it is about two men who destroy their families with homosexual lust - a sin against God and man is to give the impression that homosexual behavior is OK. he needed to give the context of why he considerd the movie powerful-lacking in that he allowed the homsoexual community to co-opt his remarks as a sign he approves of thier behavior.Why does there have to be the assumption he won’t? He merely said Brokeback Mountain was a powerful film - which, it is, otherwise, nobody here would be complaining about him or the film. He has not done anything contrary to the churches teachings, in fact all he has done is shown the love of Christ - I really cannot see what the problem in doing that is. It seems to me that a bishop should be far more friendly and gentle in conveying Gods message, taking his time to ensure everyone understands it, rather than an agressive quick shouting match that involves him quoting the bible many times (I know there is ground in between
You make my point-Dignity(an oragnization that distorts the teachngs of the Church to rationalize their sinful behavior) takes the archbishops remarks is sign of support. The ONLY message the Arcbishop should give to catholics who engage in homosexual behavior is they must repent, confess their sin and stop engaging in their sinful behavior.
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Libero
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I mean ground in between the style of preaching. As in a bishop does not have to be all friendly and take time over his message, nor does he have to be agressive and shout it out - there is ground inbetween. Maybe the bishop is more innocent than you think - perhaps he did not expect to have his comments carefully inspected and taken apart like this - thus he did not take time to explain his use of powerful.
Well that simply isn’t true, no wonder gay and lesbian Catholics don’t want to adhere to church teaching - they need encouragement and love - I think it is probably one of the hardest things a Catholic would ever have to go through. Another message a bishop should give is “Jesus loves you” “Don’t give up” “You are always welcome in the church” etc. People cannot suceed without help - trying to encourage a person will always have better effects than trying to force them and scare them into changing using terms like “Sinful behaviour” “objectively disordered” etc. These people are still humans - they need to be treated with respect and compassion if we wish for them to suceed in what the church expects.
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estesbob
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What isnt true? That the Church teaches homsexual beahvior is disordered and is a griveous sin??? The encouragement that those who engage in homosexual behavior is the same all of us need- repent and go and sin no more. A person who is enaging in homosexual behavior(or any other Mortal sin)) **should **be afraid-they are endangering their immortal souls and need to be aware of this. The touchy feely “care bear” approach does sinners a diservice. It would be a tragedy if one engaged is such sinful ,disordered behavior dies while the new Archbishop is still in the “building a dialogue” stage.
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Libero
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That isn’t true, there are many other messages that have to be sent across, such as the ones I provided.
It would appear that you have not realised quite how hard it can be for some homosexuals in the church, and perhaps you shall never value this new Archbishop until you do realise this.
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irenaeus1
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Libero - to be consistent in your approach, should the bishop also take the same approach with those who suffer with sexual attraction to prepubescent children? According to your reasoning, we should give them encouragement and love WITHOUT admonishing them that their orientation is intrinsically disordered and that acting out their behavior should not be condemned for fear that they will feel ostracized and unwelcome in the community. It is certainly true that Jesus is merciful and stands ready to forgive, but Jesus demands repentance if His forgiveness is to be efficacious. And repentance is not possible if the sinfulness of sin is ignored or denied.
In Christ,
Irenaeus
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Libero
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That is very different, we cannot compare the two, those who would take advantage of children, would usually do so without them consenting to the acts, that is not the case fore homosexuals, also a childs mind and body have not developed fully, thus they cannot be a participant in sex.
There is forgiveness to be found in even the worst of sins - Cormac Cdnl. Murphy O’Connor, with forgiveness should come an element of love and respect.
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UtahMaggie
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Each dioceses has it’s own needs and issues. San Francisco’s issues are obvious. I don’t believe Pope B16 would appoint a man he isn’t sure is appropriate for the job. The issue of homosexuality will undoubtedly come up and I’m sure Bishop Niederauer will address it in more detail at that time. Perhaps he didn’t feel that talking about a movie, although it is about homosexuals, was the right time to fully discuss such an important topic. I’m confident that he will address this issue in full at a later time in a more appropriate setting.
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GloriaPatri4
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So if the child is a consenting participant in sexual activity with an adult it’s okay?
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estesbob
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Both are MORTAL sins. Both behaviors endanger their immortal souls. The greatest kindness one can show those who enage in homosexual behavior is to condmen that behavior. I find that the best way to do it is to give them the pertinent paragraphs in the Cathecism. Their is NOTHING about homosexual behavior that deserves love or respect. The person enaging in such behavior deverves our Love but most certainly does not deserve our respect.
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