Santa Claus is blasphemous

[karebear92]

An accurate criticism is not an insult. Relativism, the belief that all opinions are equal and therefore beyond reproach, and multiculturalism, the belief that all cultures are equal and therefore beyond reproach, provide the terminology to perform the mental acrobatics in defense of the indefensible.

What? I am so lost…

Pnewton has, I believe, taken the stance that myth telling is not the same thing as lying. That is in no way relativism.

 

[stanczyk]

Rather than insult, can you give an example of “wordly defenses”?

I saw no insult in that post. But, if I understand correctly, the sort of worldly defenses referred to abound in this thread. One conspicuous example is the “Yes, Virginia” letter. To be blunt, I was a bit shocked to see Catholics arguing that Santa Claus is “true” based on the specious reasoning in the “Yes, Virgina” letter. The “Yes, Virginia” argument certainly has no basis in Church teaching, and basically follows the modernist ideas of truth, that deprive truth of any real meaning.

 

[pnewton]

No one should be laying the burden of sin on anyone beyond what the Church does.

Matthew 23:4* They tie up heavy burdens***** [hard to carry] and lay them on people’s shoulders, but they will not lift a finger to move them*.

Acts 28* ‘It is the decision of the holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities, **29namely, to abstain from meat sacrificed to idols, from blood, from meats of strangled animals, and from unlawful marriage. If you keep free of these, you will be doing what is right. Farewel*l.

What I see is people who are attempting to apply their own conscience to others. Then when their unwelcome advances are rejected, at least until this is backed up by Church teaching, they resort to insults, calling us worldly. Even the unfortunate Michelle Arnold is attacked that she is not here to defend herself. Charity should matter more than a made up legalism.

 

[kbf1970060]

An accurate criticism is not an insult. Relativism, the belief that all opinions are equal and therefore beyond reproach, and multiculturalism, the belief that all cultures are equal and therefore beyond reproach, provide the terminology to perform the mental acrobatics in defense of the indefensible.

I like it.

 

[karebear92]

I saw no insult in that post. But, if I understand correctly, the sort of worldly defenses referred to abound in this thread. One conspicuous example is the “Yes, Virginia” letter. To be blunt, I was a bit shocked to see Catholics arguing that Santa Claus is “true” based on the specious reasoning in the “Yes, Virgina” letter.

What do you mean by “true?” I doubt people are really arguing that there is a jolly old man living in the North Pole with elves. He left when the ice caps started melting. Now he is my neighbor.

 

[karebear92]

What do you mean by “true?” I doubt people are really arguing that there is a jolly old man living in the North Pole with elves. He left when the ice caps started melting. Now he is my neighbor.

Just to be clear. I did not intend to deceive you. That was simply a joke.

 

[pnewton]

Relativism, the belief that all opinions are equal and therefore beyond reproach, and multiculturalism, the belief that all cultures are equal and therefore beyond reproach, provide the terminology to perform the mental acrobatics in defense of the indefensible.

I totally agree, though I have no idea why in the world you posted this non sequitor. You know what else is bad? Arianism, which has just about as much bearing on this topic.

 

[WinterLight]

What? I am so lost…

Pnewton has, I believe, taken the stance that myth telling is not the same thing as lying. That is in no way relativism.

See stanczyk’s post #339. To be honest, I was reflecting on a more general trend. Still, I think it applies to this particular case. The “Yes, Virginia” letter perfectly captures the “it makes me happy and doesn’t hurt anyone so it’s OK” point of view, which would’ve been considered sophomoric, at best, before the ascent of relativism.

I don’t think that anyone (at least, I’m not) is arguing that the Santa story in itself is a grave evil, but only that it is sin to cast it as truth, regardless of intent, to children (who naturally respect adult instruction) and especially if it obscures the true purpose of Christmas.

 

[karebear92]

See stanczyk’s post #339. To be honest, I was reflecting on a more general trend. Still, I think it applies to this particular case. The “Yes, Virginia” letter perfectly captures the “it makes me happy and doesn’t hurt anyone so it’s OK” point of view, which would’ve been considered sophomoric, at best, before the ascent of relativism.

I don’t think that anyone (at least, I’m not) is arguing that the Santa story in itself is a grave evil, but only that it is sin to cast it as truth, regardless of intent, to children (who naturally respect adult instruction) and especially if it obscures the true purpose of Christmas.

I agree that it shouldn’t overshadow Christ, but I simply fail to believe that it is anything more than a myth used to capture childrens’ imaginations and demonstrate the magical feeling of Christmas. Honestly, I know children (maybe not the right ones, I guess) and they struggle to understand God. They struggle to understand what Jesus really means. Santa Claus helps, in my opinion, inspire children and teach them of the importance and supernatural importance of Christmas before it is something they can actually understand.

 

[WinterLight]

I agree that it shouldn’t overshadow Christ, but I simply fail to believe that it is anything more than a myth used to capture childrens’ imaginations and demonstrate the magical feeling of Christmas. Honestly, I know children (maybe not the right ones, I guess) and they struggle to understand God. They struggle to understand what Jesus really means. Santa Claus helps, in my opinion, inspire children and teach them of the importance and supernatural importance of Christmas before it is something they can actually understand.

Even as adults we struggle to understand God–that’s just a fact of the human condition. Although I agree that we should remove unnecessary hurdles in their path, I also believe that there is value in the struggle itself. In fact, I think that representing the Santa story as more than a story merely sets up another unnecessary hurdle: could it be that some reject the supernatural altogether because of exposure to so many false examples of the supernatural?

 

[1inICXC]

I don’t even have to go into the fact that most of the imagery surrounding Santa Claus is Pagan in origin. That’s nothing but a cheap shot. There’s so many other reasons to hate Santa. Also, I am in no way against the blessed Saint Nicholas, he was a good guy. I’m not talking about an olden day saint who gave toys to poor children who had nothing, I’m talking about the guy in a red suit with elves and magical reindeer.

First off, it’s nothing but a blatant lie. I don’t care how much people try to butter it up by calling it childhood innocence. What is that supposed to mean anyway? It is nothing more than a lie, pure and simple. You’re telling them something that you know good and well is not true, sounds like a lie. Just to go into the further illogical-ness of it, many parents are upset when the truth is exposed. Many tiptoe around the subject when kids are around, like it’s something sacred. It’s nothing but a lie people! Parents shouldn’t be mad somebody told their kid the truth. Oh, and just like real lies, it requires more and more lies to keep it going. Best example: Telling kids that mall Santas are Santa’s helpers when kids get smart enough to realize Santa can’t be at every mall every Christmas.

Second, Santa takes away the main focus of the holiday, which is Jesus. Christmas has become a secular holiday, for the most part. And no, calling them “Christmas Trees” instead of “Holiday Trees” doesn’t help. That whole “Merry Christmas vs. Happy Holidays” is trivial and stupid, they’re nothing but words. Christmas has become secular all on its own, as it has essentially become national gift giving day, with almost no religious conotations to it at all. Santa has almost completely replaced Jesus.

And many conservatives try to blame liberals/atheists on the seculariation of Christmas. Nope, you guys did that all on your own. Let’s see, you took your religious holiday, purposefully removed all the religious symbolism, and replaced it with Santa, deer, elves, etc. You then essentially demanded the holiday take center stage in American culture, knowing full well that not all of America was Christian. And now they’re mad because they’ve essentially lost their holiday. No, you didn’t lose it, you gave it away and have only yourselves to blame.

Third, it’s stupid. OK, not a sin, but a valid point still. Go through the trouble of getting your child a Christmas present, and then giving credit to a guy who doesn’t even exist for no apparent reason. What a bizarre custom.

Fourth, it sends kids a horrible message. I saved the worst for last, as there are two bad messages Santa sends children. The first being that it’s OK to lie to people. I’ve already explained how Santa is a lie with my first point. The second message is its ties to religion. Let’s see, let’s convince our children that there’s an old guy with a beard. Even though you’ve never seen him or met him, he will reward you if you’re good. Hmm, sound famliar? There’s a reason atheists call God “Santa for adults”. Also, kids usually learn about God and Santa from the same source (their parents), so when one is found to be false, why should they believe anything their parents say about God? The fact that this blatant lie is also centered around one of the biggest Christian holidays doesn’t help matters either.

I’m not trying to say God is as fake as Santa. What I’m saying is that teaching your kids about Santa makes them more likely to doubt God.

I agree with most of this.
Here’s what I posted in a similar topic.

Re: Santa Claus
I think lots of Catholics kid themselves into thinking that you can have Santa and keep the holiday Christ-centered but the truth is, that is NOT possible.

Children will be 100000x more excited about the jolly man who eats cookies and brings them gifts than about Jesus, being born, which is not palpable in any way.

The same families who claim that Christmas is “all about Jesus” even though they have Santa, gasp and say :" what, you guys don’t have Santa, then what do you do!?"

We give Baby Jesus presents, we RECEIVE presents ( always something very small, that they would receive on a regular trip to the mall so that it doesn’t end up captivating all their attention) from Baby Jesus, we sing happy birthday and have the biggest Birthday Party of the Year with the statue of Baby Jeus in the manger right at the centre. Our kids love it and Jesus gets 0 competition!

As far as we’re oncerned, if Santa “died”, this world would be a better place

Another element that influenced our decision was that both DH and I hated, as children, discovering that our parents abused our trust and conspired and lied in order to perpetuate this myth for the first years of our lives. I was truly devastated and angry to replay every Christmas in my head and all those Santa stories and realize it was a collection of grown-up deceptions. It is a lie and a very UNNECESSARY one at that. Christmas brings more joy than any other time of the year without the friggin fat, red guy.

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I bet you our children would hate people coming to their birthday party looking for Santa and singing " Santa is coming to town" - but poor Jesus, doesn’t complain

 

[Catholic90]

Boy, some people sure are worked up over this!

 

[adopted_heir]

Um…re-read my post. What I said was clearly tongue in cheek. I don’t think any of it is mortally sinful.

Sigh. Sorry. There’s been so much ridiculous back-and-forth, I missed the name at the top. Cuz I was thinking–I have two gardens and a birdfeeder–is that like Satan worship?

 

[ruslan]

I agree with most of this.
Here’s what I posted in a similar topic.

Re: Santa Claus
I think lots of Catholics kid themselves into thinking that you can have Santa and keep the holiday Christ-centered but the truth is, that is NOT possible.

Children will be 100000x more excited about the jolly man who eats cookies and brings them gifts than about Jesus, being born, which is not palpable in any way.

The same families who claim that Christmas is “all about Jesus” even though they have Santa, gasp and say :" what, you guys don’t have Santa, then what do you do!?"

We give Baby Jesus presents, we RECEIVE presents ( always something very small, that they would receive on a regular trip to the mall so that it doesn’t end up captivating all their attention) from Baby Jesus, we sing happy birthday and have the biggest Birthday Party of the Year with the statue of Baby Jeus in the manger right at the centre. Our kids love it and Jesus gets 0 competition!

As far as we’re oncerned, if Santa “died”, this world would be a better place

Another element that influenced our decision was that both DH and I hated, as children, discovering that our parents abused our trust and conspired and lied in order to perpetuate this myth for the first years of our lives. I was truly devastated and angry to replay every Christmas in my head and all those Santa stories and realize it was a collection of grown-up deceptions. It is a lie and a very UNNECESSARY one at that. Christmas brings more joy than any other time of the year without the friggin fat, red guy.

---

I bet you our children would hate people coming to their birthday party looking for Santa and singing " Santa is coming to town" - but poor Jesus, doesn’t complain

 

[Swiss_Guy]

I’m surprised this thread has grown like it has. Honestly people, what’s the big deal about santa claus? The way I look at it, santa shows what St. Nicholas did for children and how we are supposed to be generous towards others. It’s not like he is (or should be) the center of Christmas.

 

[Hecares]

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

OP, you sound very angry! Why?

Enjoy the Christmas season! Life is way too short to get so worked up about Santa, the spirit of love and generosity !

Exactly! When I was still fairly young I found an article which talked about the reality of Santa. It said that Santa is the representation of the love in our hearts. I found that that explanation allowed me to make the transition from believing in Santa to not believing in the man in the red suit without pain. I am surprised at how many adults are still traumatized by that transitiion.

We read stories (or tell them) to our kids all the time.Are we to limit our stories to absolute non-fiction? Alice in Wonderland, The Three little pigs, Cinderella, The Velveteen Rabbit, The Giving Tree - are all these stories evil and to be avoided?

In teaching, or in trying to make changes, we start with what the people know and use that as the starting point. Many Christian practices, holidays and stories are slight variations of pagan ones.That doesn’t make them evil anymore than Catholicism is evil because it is the fulfillment of the Old Testament teachings of the Jews.

 

[nickybr38]

Exactly! When I was still fairly young I found an article which talked about the reality of Santa. It said that Santa is the representation of the love in our hearts. I found that that explanation allowed me to make the transition from believing in Santa to not believing in the man in the red suit without pain. I am surprised at how many adults are still traumatized by that transitiion.

We read stories (or tell them) to our kids all the time.Are we to limit our stories to absolute non-fiction? Alice in Wonderland, The Three little pigs, Cinderella, The Velveteen Rabbit, The Giving Tree - are all these stories evil and to be avoided?

In teaching, or in trying to make changes, we start with what the people know and use that as the starting point. Many Christian practices, holidays and stories are slight variations of pagan ones.That doesn’t make them evil anymore than Catholicism is evil because it is the fulfillment of the Old Testament teachings of the Jews.

The difference between reading a story to a child and telling a child about Santa is that when you read a story it’s clear that it’s just a story but when you tell a child that Santa is coming to give them gifts… and then they get gifts from ‘Santa’… the line between reality and fantasy becomes somewhat blurred.

But I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again. Both sides should be a bit more understanding of each other.

I think the non-Santa teaching people tend to make some rude comments about the other side and the Santa teaching people tend to make rude comments about the other side as well. There doesn’t seem to be any mutual respect going on for either choice…

 

[RCIA4]

I’m not sure what’s worse… The OP’s use of the term “blasphemy” or some of the people that agree with him…

I admit we shouldn’t get caught up in the secular culture of Christmas… But really blasphemy is a little too extreme…

 

[nickybr38]

I’m not sure what’s worse… The OP’s use of the term “blasphemy” or some of the people that agree with him…

I admit we shouldn’t get caught up in the secular culture of Christmas… But really blasphemy is a little too extreme…

I agree (now that I looked up what blasphemy means Ah, CAF, you teach me all kinds of important words).

 

[TarkanAttila]

snip

We give Baby Jesus presents, we RECEIVE presents ( always something very small, that they would receive on a regular trip to the mall so that it doesn’t end up captivating all their attention) from Baby Jesus, we sing happy birthday and have the biggest Birthday Party of the Year with the statue of Baby Jesus in the manger right at the centre. Our kids love it and Jesus gets 0 competition!

As far as we’re concerned, if Santa “died”, this world would be a better place

Another element that influenced our decision was that both DH and I hated, as children, discovering that our parents abused our trust and conspired and lied in order to perpetuate this myth for the first years of our lives. I was truly devastated and angry to replay every Christmas in my head and all those Santa stories and realize it was a collection of grown-up deceptions. It is a lie and a very UNNECESSARY one at that. Christmas brings more joy than any other time of the year without the friggin fat, red guy.

Nice post.

I love the idea - it’s so much cheaper, and it’s so much more worshipful!

But I mightn’t dropping Santa like a rock confuse your kids? Especially when everyone else seems absolutely fixated on him, and the myth that he gives good girls and boys their hearts’ desires? (Yes, I hate commercial America, too. ) Especially considering he does have a real basis.

You can drop Santa if you like. That’s probably a better idea than any I could come up with.

But he is based on a real, charitable guy. Saint Nicholas. His feast day is the 6th of December, right around the corner from Christmas. Incorporating Saint Nicholas rather than the big, fat guy into your Advent worship practises could make “Santa” more useful for celebrating Christ’s coming, when your children see even one of the most generous men in the world (even though he was not the richest) got his idea from the Child Jesus.