Santa Claus

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John21652 said:
Only 5 more sleeps!
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I sleep and awake on Christmas and Easter everyday of the year.

The Santa or should I more appropriately say the superfluous over inflated secular commercial aspect gets dumped rather rudely on everybody whether you like it or not on November 1st when the shopping centers go full swing with deck the halls with Happy Holidays and Seasons Greetings and all their flim flam decor.
 
centurionguard said:
I sleep and awake on Christmas and Easter everyday of the year.

The Santa or should I more appropriately say the superfluous over inflated secular commercial aspect gets dumped rather rudely on everybody whether you like it or not on November 1st when the shopping centers go full swing with deck the halls with Happy Holidays and Seasons Greetings and all their flim flam decor.
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And someone like you goes to the mall… why? :confused:
 
maryjk said:
No one ever said there was a comparison. 🤷

Christ is better than everything. 👍

That doesn’t mean we can’t also have Santa.
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Stop !!!
I was not making any comparison. I just received that in the email and found it funny …
It was to lighten the discussion not to make any statement …
 
The American concept of “Santa” is based upon the pagan god of Thor.

He wore red, came down the chimney, had a big beard, lived in an ice palace in the north, rode through the sky in a chariot pulled by two goats (gnasher and cracker), and had elves to make stuff for him. Sound familiar?

When the English took over New Amsterdam from the Dutch, they became familiar with the Dutch customs regarding gift giving on the feast of St. Nicholas (the Dutch were protestants but had preserved devotion to St. Nicholas). The English Presbyterians liked the gift giving idea, but didn’t want to pollute the minds of their children with such poisonus Catholic ideas as the priesthood, apostolic succession, and the communion of saints. So they dug up Thor.

Santa doesn’t undermine Christmas by accident or abuse, it’s by design.

Pax Christi
 
Dan_Daly said:
The American concept of “Santa” is based upon the pagan god of Thor.

He wore red, came down the chimney, had a big beard, lived in an ice palace in the north, rode through the sky in a chariot pulled by two goats (gnasher and cracker), and had elves to make stuff for him. Sound familiar?
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Source? I studied mythology and even the proponents of commonality among myths would sooner hang themselves than promote something this bizarre. In what epic, legend, tale, or myth did Thor come down a chimney? Where is Mjolnir now in his so-called ‘transformation’ into Santa?

And elves? ELVES? You’re comparing the elves of Norse mythology, the elves that form the mold for FANTASY ELVES to tiny, little munchkins in… you know what? Words cannot express how appalled I am right now. Time to salvage some pics.
 
The Year in the Christian Home by Fr. Francis Weiser.

He cites Helene Guerber:
Thor was the god of the peasants and the common people. He was represented as an elderly man, jovial and friendly, of heavy build, with a long white beard. His element was the fire, his color red. The rumble and roar of thunder were said to be caused by the rolling of his chariot, for he alone among the gods never rode on horseback but drove in a chariot drawn by two white goats (called Cracker and Gnasher). He was fighting the giants of ice and snow, and thus became the Yule-god. He was said to live in the “Northland” where he had his palace among icebergs. By our pagan forefathers he was considered as the cheerful and friendly god, never harming the humans but rather helping and protecting them. The fireplace in every home was especially sacred to him, and he was said to come down through the chimney into his element, the fire. (Guerber, H.A. Myths of Northern Lands. New York: American Book Company, 1895, p. 61)
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It is significant that this source predates the mass popularization of Santa in American culture largely through the efforst of Coca-Cola and Macy’s.

Pax
 
Dan_Daly said:
The Year in the Christian Home by Fr. Francis Weiser.

He cites Helene Guerber:
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So instead of citing a dubious source, you do worse and cite a dubious source that distorts a credible one beyond recognition.

In your hasty attempt to draw parallels between Thor and Santa, you forget key differences that are also signature traits (be it the former or the latter).

For one, Thor is often if not always depicted carrying his mighty hammer Mjolnir. Santa doesn’t have anything remotely resembling it. Secondly, Santa doesn’t use fire to come down the chimney. Most popular depictions actually either have the fire conveniently extinguished beforehand or that his own sparkly magic puts it out somehow. There’s also the feature of him touching his nose before zooming back up again. Third, Thor’s hair is not white and the thunderous rumbling of his chariot cannot be compared to tinkling sleigh bells. Fourth, he’s also quite merciless to his foes, whereas Santa is a chubby charity worker. Jovial as he was, the God of Thunder was still a WARRIOR first, not a gift giver. One thing I was taught when my Mythology class covered the Norse gods was that the Norse had a brutal, harsh view forged from their constant battle with nature. Therefore, the warm, fuzzy image of Santa is wholly incompatible with this. Fifth, have you forgotten that whenever you mention Thor you’ll eventually mention his nemesis, the serpent Jörmungandr? If Santa doesn’t have Thor’s signature symbol (and weapon), he could at least retain Thor’s archenemy. But no, usually the villains pitted against Santa are kiddie Saturday-morning-cartoon types (except maybe for Oogie Boogie).

Finally however, your quote doesn’t even mention the elves. Good God. You have no idea how you’ve offended every fantasy fan right now if you’re comparing Norse elves with the munchkins of the North Pole.

Okay children, let’s review. Who can show me one of Santa’s elves?

Kid: :3 holds up pic



Good. Well then here is what you get when you talk about the elves of Norse mythology.

snaps finger and summons elf



Elf girl: Eh? :confused:

Oops, sorry dear. >_>;; snaps finger again and summons another elf



Elf lady: Hm? looks up from book 7_7 Oh blast it…

Rather sneaky jinxing my spell to summon my wife in your place but you’re not getting out of this. -_-

Elf lady: Very well you draconic scaly. 7-7 stands Greetings children, I am a mystical elf. My race have dominated the magical arts for centuries… blablablabla.

Oi! Do it properly. You’re going to be teaching in this magic academy at the start of the next semester! D8<

Elf lady: Oh yes and we don’t really make toys. Such childish crafts are best left to the dwarves and gnomes. turns to LW You happy now? :rolleyes:

It’ll suffice. By the way, the headmaster is expecting you today.

Elf lady: Don’t remind me. -.- teleports

And that children is a brief differentiation between genuine mystical elves and figments of your Christmas fairy tales. Class dismissed. -.-
 
For Catholic parents, Santa and Jesus do not have to be mutually exclusive. We use Santat to teach about heaven, the communion of saints, sharing, limitation and a host of other topics during Christmas. Santa always leaves a letter that point to the birth of Jesus as the sole reason for Christmas. I already am working on the transition for my six year old son from a real Santa to the reason for Santa. He know the story of St. Nicholas and has a well established faith. He almost has it figured out, and I am now having to hedge around quesitons.

Oh, and we do not have any Thor imagery, so that is irrelevant. Only Daddy can have a hammer in the house.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
So instead of citing a dubious source, you do worse and cite a dubious source that distorts a credible one beyond recognition.

In your hasty attempt to draw parallels between Thor and Santa, you forget key differences that are also signature traits (be it the former or the latter).

For one, Thor is often if not always depicted carrying his mighty hammer Mjolnir. Santa doesn’t have anything remotely resembling it. Secondly, Santa doesn’t use fire to come down the chimney. Most popular depictions actually either have the fire conveniently extinguished beforehand or that his own sparkly magic puts it out somehow. There’s also the feature of him touching his nose before zooming back up again. Third, Thor’s hair is not white and the thunderous rumbling of his chariot cannot be compared to tinkling sleigh bells. Fourth, he’s also quite merciless to his foes, whereas Santa is a chubby charity worker. Jovial as he was, the God of Thunder was still a WARRIOR first, not a gift giver. One thing I was taught when my Mythology class covered the Norse gods was that the Norse had a brutal, harsh view forged from their constant battle with nature. Therefore, the warm, fuzzy image of Santa is wholly incompatible with this. Fifth, have you forgotten that whenever you mention Thor you’ll eventually mention his nemesis, the serpent Jörmungandr? If Santa doesn’t have Thor’s signature symbol (and weapon), he could at least retain Thor’s archenemy. But no, usually the villains pitted against Santa are kiddie Saturday-morning-cartoon types (except maybe for Oogie Boogie).

Finally however, your quote doesn’t even mention the elves. Good God. You have no idea how you’ve offended every fantasy fan right now if you’re comparing Norse elves with the munchkins of the North Pole.

Okay children, let’s review. Who can show me one of Santa’s elves?

Kid: :3 holds up pic

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa218/Beatnix_photos/Christmas/christmas-elf.jpg

Good. Well then here is what you get when you talk about the elves of Norse mythology.

snaps finger and summons elf

http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/ac352/CinderellaJack/Anime_Elf_Princess.jpg

Elf girl: Eh? :confused:

Oops, sorry dear. >_>;; snaps finger again and summons another elf

http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s25/Luna_Gal/Anime/mysticalelf.jpg

Elf lady: Hm? looks up from book 7_7 Oh blast it…

Rather sneaky jinxing my spell to summon my wife in your place but you’re not getting out of this. -_-

Elf lady: Very well you draconic scaly. 7-7 stands Greetings children, I am a mystical elf. My race have dominated the magical arts for centuries… blablablabla.

Oi! Do it properly. You’re going to be teaching in this magic academy at the start of the next semester! D8<

Elf lady: Oh yes and we don’t really make toys. Such childish crafts are best left to the dwarves and gnomes. turns to LW You happy now? :rolleyes:

It’ll suffice. By the way, the headmaster is expecting you today.

Elf lady: Don’t remind me. -.- teleports

And that children is a brief differentiation between genuine mystical elves and figments of your Christmas fairy tales. Class dismissed. -.-
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Our ideas of Elves have sort of changed too over the years. Santa’s elves did evolve from the Nordic and Germanic ideas of the 12 days of Christmastide. As for Thor, not completely certain where that’s come from, save for a book thats over a century old. It would be nice to see if there were references where the writer showed where they got their info.

The Santa everyone else knows has numerous elements from almost all the European countries. I do, in a twisted way, hope that the stories of him with Black Peter came back. Forget scaring kids with coal for being bad. Black Peter was said to be a dark skinned individual that was from the mines in Spain who’d traveled with santa, and if the child was bad, would beat the kid with a stick, stuff him in a black bag, and send him to work in the mines of Spain! NOW THERE’S A WARNING FOR YOU KIDDIES!
 
ZhaneAugustine said:
Our ideas of Elves have sort of changed too over the years. Santa’s elves did evolve from the Nordic and Germanic ideas of the 12 days of Christmastide. As for Thor, not completely certain where that’s come from, save for a book thats over a century old. It would be nice to see if there were references where the writer showed where they got their info.
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The folklore of some European countries did have more miniature elves and perhaps much closer to Santa’s. However, they just can’t be compared to the elves of Norse mythology. It was specifically these sort of elves that served as the mold for the archetypical race that fantasy fans recognize on sight.
 
Whether or not you teach your children about Santa is entirely up to you. Just two things to think about:
  1. When you are very poor, it amounts to cruelty to teach your children that if they are good they get presents, and none if they are bad. My siblings and I grew up very poor, and all the children around us had all these toys at Christmas, and expensive ones too. We were always made fun of, that we must have been bad kids not to get all the cool presents the other kids did. If we had been taught to believe in Santa, how much worse would that have made us feel? As it was, our parents told us that it was a game people liked to play, but not getting a lot of presents did not mean we were bad. Knowing that Santa was not real, and knowing I knew something the other kids did not got me through a lot of tormenting around Christmastime.
  2. Our image of Santa is not universal. When I studied German in High School, our teacher, who grew up in Germany, told us about their traditional “Santa” (or at least the area she lived in). He was called Der Weihnachtsmann. He was thin and scary. If you were bad, he would bring a switch for your parents to beat you with. That is the Santa she grew up with.
 
teachccd said:
Yes, our family always enjoyed Santa Claus all while acknowledging the real meaning of Christmas. My dad used to dress up as Santa for us as kids. You know there are three stages in evey man’s life. When he believes in Santa Claus, when he doesn’t believe in Santa Claus and when he is Santa Claus…😃
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I like this, and I am going to pass this on. Thanks for sharing.
 
centurionguard said:
Well you certainly brought a smile on my face. 😃 Why; I’ve dressed, acted, and played the part of Jolly Ole Saint Nick often more times than I can count in my life in shopping malls and visitation of young ones. Oh yeah I forgot…no pillows needed. Oh Well they say I had looked and sounded like him. Retired Santa now.

Guess I’ve always taken a certain liking to the old editorial story written in the New York Sun September 21st, 1897 “Yes Virginia; there is a Santa Claus”.
Somehow though the spirit of the story feels like it rings a tone of Christ-God like love even if it is just a real written fictitious story.
newseum.org/yesvirginia/

Maybe what we need sometimes is another story…Yes Virginia; there is a Jesus Born in Bethlehem.

We all know Jesus Is the Reason for the Season.
There are many ways parents can show their young the secular fanfare bending to the Real Reason for Christmas.

http://policelink.monster.com/nfs/p...3415/Kneeling_Santa__3__max600.jpg?1292348143
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Looks like you’ve got yourself a dead-ringer there centurionguard, art imitating life.

I know of a parish priest that dresses up as Santa. He already has the tummy, white beard, long white hair, and age, all he needs is a red suit and black boots that fit.

Most kids have figured out Santa by the time they’re five or six.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
And someone like you goes to the mall… why? :confused:
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Why so confused? Can’t I go to my pharmacy located in the mall for prescriptions?

Is there some Anti-Catholic sentiment for a Catholic walking in a mall :confused:

I don’t buy gifts to give at Christmas, terminal illness doesn’t allow me to walk around very much. Secondly; I survive on the reciprocal love of my beloved family where many too are terminally ill. My health has also put me on the avails of being dependent on a minuscule monthly welfare cheque of $300. I understand what it is to be poor but more importantly what it is to embrace being poor-in-spirit. The faceless person of me sitting behind this computer doesn’t belong to me. It was lent charitably for me to use.

Do I understand the True meaning of Christmas? Yes; thankfully and profoundly with the greatest humbly thanks to God and the Holy Catholic Church.
 
Lost_Wanderer said:
The folklore of some European countries did have more miniature elves and perhaps much closer to Santa’s. However, they just can’t be compared to the elves of Norse mythology. It was specifically these sort of elves that served as the mold for the archetypical race that fantasy fans recognize on sight.
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That is probably true yes
 
Daizies said:
Whether or not you teach your children about Santa is entirely up to you. Just two things to think about:
  1. When you are very poor, it amounts to cruelty to teach your children that if they are good they get presents, and none if they are bad. My siblings and I grew up very poor, and all the children around us had all these toys at Christmas, and expensive ones too. We were always made fun of, that we must have been bad kids not to get all the cool presents the other kids did. If we had been taught to believe in Santa, how much worse would that have made us feel? As it was, our parents told us that it was a game people liked to play, but not getting a lot of presents did not mean we were bad. Knowing that Santa was not real, and knowing I knew something the other kids did not got me through a lot of tormenting around Christmastime.
  2. Our image of Santa is not universal. When I studied German in High School, our teacher, who grew up in Germany, told us about their traditional “Santa” (or at least the area she lived in). He was called Der Weihnachtsmann. He was thin and scary. If you were bad, he would bring a switch for your parents to beat you with. That is the Santa she grew up with.
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Thats just bad parenting on the part of the other kids. After all, you and your siblings still got presents (so it made no sense if you were bad… santa is ‘supposed to bring coal’). No where does it say he brings the best TO the best,. Those children got the wrong message.
And 2. Once again, yes, Santa or the giftbringer of the winter is indeed different in many different cultures. Again, look at black peter. There is also a Vampire thats said to arise in Greek during the Christmas time and only during the Christmas time. Not the kind of santa we all know.
 
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