Santa

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Reservoir_Dog said:
I love these threads. I learn so much about Catholicism.
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I love posts like this. I had no idea how many trolls there were in the Anglican Communion.

Let the curious Catholics ask questions of their friends in peace.
 
Wowbagger said:
I love posts like this. I had no idea how many trolls there were in the Anglican Communion.

Let the curious Catholics ask questions of their friends in peace.
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But I’ve been wondering how our brethren deal with vexing issues like this.
 
:rolleyes:

Anyways…
I’m the oldest of seven, and my parents started out by telling me about Santa, and how he came down the chimney and all that. I believed them, then found out they weren’t telling the truth. And apparently (I don’t remember, but so my parents say), I was so upset that they had lied to me… I had trusted them…
So they quit with the Santa stuff. 🙂
 
This is my favorite thread ever, especially the part about the birthday cake for Jesus. Everyone should do that. (Make it an apple or carrot or coffee cake for me, thanks.) Fairyland in general is a great way to prepare kids for Faith. Certain adults know how to present Fairyland to kids in a way that’s not literalistic but opens their minds to the wonder of which the earth is full! So Santa is part of that whole thing. It’s a fun story, and it makes getting presents a whole lot more magical. Without Santa kids get materialistic and greedy (like, ahem, their parents). Thanks to Santa they don’t get the idea they can manipulate their parents but must be genuinely nice and good all year if they want presents. Frankly, adults could use more of this sort of paradigm. We know God watches our every action. As Catholics we even know by Faith that God suffers vicariously though us when we sin and hurt our souls (as well as others and the whole Body of Christ). Modern man, so “enlightened,” “metropolitan,” doesn’t understand wonder, mystery or spirit. He doesn’t reject them but his life is full of lower things, and there is simply no space for God. Do not deprive children of a childhood. You don’t have to tell your kids the story of Santa, but do tell them stories often! Open their hearts and minds to soar the heights of truth, beauty and goodness so they will develop spiritual instincts to find these things later on. That’s all Santa Claus was ever supposed to be. C. S. Lewis got this; J. R. R. Tolkien got this; G. K. Chesterton definitely got this. All those Oxford Movement (or as I call it Orthodoxford) persons understood how fiction and fantasy could be used to develop man’s higher faculties and free him from the slavery of modern materialism. Do you think Santa can save your children from the heresy of modernism? Don’t lie to your children, but tell them the story! I think it’s a Zionist ploy that wants to uproot us all from our heritage. Resist its evil pull; it will only enslave your children. Keep your Catholic and your cultural tradition whatever it is - as long as it is not harmful. Be very wary of men who question centuries-old traditions; they are usually high on themselves, sad to say. Discern and have peace!
 
johnpfmcguire said:
…Do you think Santa can save your children from the heresy of modernism? Don’t lie to your children, but tell them the story! I think it’s a Zionist ploy that wants to uproot us all from our heritage. Resist its evil pull; it will only enslave your children…
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How did I miss the obvious?
 
Reservoir_Dog said:
What news outlet tipped you off about the connection between Santa and Zionists?
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A connection between them? That wasn’t what I was talking about, much the contrary, Brother. I’m more than happy to walk you through what I mean, but somehow you’ll need to demonstrate an ability/willingness to keep up.
 
Remember the very serious medieval theological debate about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
That was one of the very little rocks in the faith, as opposed to the Big Rocks, e.g. the Trinity, Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, salvation, communion, the sacraments forgiveness, reconciliation, the Mass, the Eucharist, what Christ did on the cross, good works, faith, believe in God and countless others. Those are some of the big rocks. Small rocks would be what color sandals Peter wore, whether the sky was blue or cloudy during the times Jesus crossed over to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, the temperature in Jerusalem at the exact moment that Jesus was overturning the moneychanger’s tables.
I think the big rocks are pretty important. There are so many small rocks that it would take a lifetime and more to talk about them.
 
johnpfmcguire said:
A connection between them? That wasn’t what I was talking about, much the contrary, Brother. I’m more than happy to walk you through what I mean, but somehow you’ll need to demonstrate an ability/willingness to keep up.
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That’s not likely to happen.
 
Good. Honesty. I suppose to some it’s obvious and to others…Boy is that better left unsaid.
 
johnpfmcguire said:
Good. Honesty. I suppose to some it’s obvious and to others…Boy is that better left unsaid.
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I’m sure the connection between Santa Claus and the Zionists must be glaringly obvious to a certain kind of mind.
 
No, it is definitely not a sin. Santa is fictional. If your child asked if somebody is going to murder them tonight, and you told them no, would that be a sin? You don’t know for sure.

What I’m trying to say is this - you’ll live a more peaceful life if you don’t over-interpret everything. Santa is not only fun, but can be used as a great tool to introduce children to the concept of a saint. By allowing a child to understand Santa at a young age you’ll better be able to explain to them sainthood when they grow up thanks to Ol’ Saint Nick.
 
catholicpublish said:
No, it is definitely not a sin. Santa is fictional. If your child asked if somebody is going to murder them tonight, and you told them no, would that be a sin? You don’t know for sure.
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It is not the same. You know Santa doesn’t exist. On the other hand you don’t know whether you’ll be murdered or not tonight. Given the small percentage of that happening -and you trusting in the Lord- you can safely say that you won’t be murdered tonight. But with Santa you know he doesn’t exist but yet you willingly tell children he exists and this is bad, in my humble opinion. To make your own comparison better, it’s like telling someone he won’t be murdered when you know he’s going to be murdered or the opposite, telling him he will be murdered knowing for sure that he won’t.

It’s not a sin to say ‘you won’t be murdered tonight’ since you don’t know for sure (by the way, since you don’t know for sure it is better to express doubt instead; e.g.: “-Will I be murdered tonight? -I don’t know.” instead of “yes” or “no”) but you do know for sure that Santa doesn’t exist. The second -with Santa- is pure lying since you know Santa is not real but yet you tell them he’s real. The first is not since you simply don’t know (and as I said, it is better to express doubt regarding the question instead).
catholicpublish said:
What I’m trying to say is this - you’ll live a more peaceful life if you don’t over-interpret everything. Santa is not only fun, but can be used as a great tool to introduce children to the concept of a saint.
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But Santa Claus is not a saint. Why not teach them about a real saint like Jesus, Paul, Abraham, David, etc.? These people are saints for they put their faith in God, and this faith was accounted as unrighteousness. Does Santa pray to God? Wasn’t it that children pray to Santa? How many times have we seen imagery of Santa praying to God, asking Him for help, etc. Santa doesn’t relly upon God at all. Does Santa lead children to God or is he actually becoming some sort of substitute for Him?
catholicpublish said:
By allowing a child to understand Santa at a young age you’ll better be able to explain to them sainthood when they grow up thanks to Ol’ Saint Nick.
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I do not understand. What do you mean by ‘understand Santa’? And as I said previously, Santa is not really a model of what it means to be a saint.
 
Reservoir_Dog said:
I’m sure the connection between Santa Claus and the Zionists must be glaringly obvious to a certain kind of mind.
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Well, here’s a free hint: what is glaringly obvious to a literate and rational kind of mind is that I never hinted at a connection. Reread my post, there’s a good man. Have someone read it aloud to you as I am wont to recommend to certain persons.
 
Scaun, you seem to be implying plenty of things I never said. I don’t remember saying not to teach them about other saints.

Saint Nicholas is a saint. Santa Claus is a character that was derived from the image of Saint Nicholas. You can allow a child to believe in Santa and use Santa as a great tool to teach them about Saint Nicholas in the future. Maybe when they hit 7 you transition to - did you know Santa is a lot like his friend Saint Nicholas? When they stop believing in Santa - did you know Santa was based on Saint Nicholas? Don’t consider Santa to be an enemy, consider him to be a easier concept for a child to understand than the explanation of Mother Theresa’s work in India and the political system there which keeps the people poor. Explain to your child who Saint Nicholas is in basic terms suitable for their age.

**I can think of so many amazing uses of Santa! These are also good things Santa can be used for:
**- Do you know why Santa gives presents on Christmas? Jesus was born on Christmas…
  • Santa is charitable, did you know Jesus was even more charitable little Jimmy?
  • Santa gives you presents, why? Because he’s celebrating Jesus.
    - See that giving tree at Church? Santa couldn’t make it to the homes of those children this year, so Jesus and Santa are asking us if we’d help out. (What a great time to teach about charity! At a young age!)
  • Santa is a pretty special fella, but Jesus has made us all equally special!
Saint Nicholas gave a present himself - most famously gold to a poor family so the daughters would not become prostitutes. Nicholas didn’t want publicity for this so he brought the gold into the house under the cover of the night. Gifts during the night… this is ringing a bell. I can’t say I’d mention the prostitution part to small children though.

At a young age, how many children truly have the ability to grasp the concept of a saint? If they do, they are beyond gifted. If a young child replaces God with Santa, then their parent needs to step in. I can’t say I ever had such a problem growing up.

Does Santa pray to God? That would be the parent’s decision, wouldn’t it? So I would say yes to that one!

I could easily get into a philosophical debate over whether or not you can safely say you won’t be murdered or not, but that wouldn’t be productive. :rolleyes:
 
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