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Reservoir_Dog
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Why would you say that? Everyone here is a trinitarian, with few exceptions.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
It is not something one puts in a brag book here RD. You see, bringing up the very idea that only one “good” Bishop (as the story goes) fought against this widespread heresy cuts both ways. Many can walk away from it believing it a miracle. The whole concept of one man saving all men is the theme here. Of course, we can correct the flaws in this by now making the one man more than just a man. Then, we don’t have anything to worry about anymore.
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johnpfmcguire
Guest
Funny you bring up miracles. Now there’s something interesting. Have you ever taken the time to study them in any depth, Strawberry Jam?
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StrawberryJam
Guest
I think it is interesting that miracles are interesting to many.
What was a miracle yesterday, was not today.
Which should I study about more?
I am somewhat familliar with a variety of them.
So many. Biblical ones, or ones afterward?
I just need to narrow this down a bit.
The miracle I know personally, is that for some reason I want to believe. In spite of the lack of reason to. I would love to believe.
I know I have some of the “stuff” for doing so. But, 2 out of 3 is not enough.
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johnpfmcguire
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You may be the most profound person I’ve spoken with today…or even in awhile. I think in another forum we may be able to journey far together in this matter since I empathize greatly with especially your latter words here. I used to buy into all things modern. It was a long journey for me to become Mediaeval. (That will take some explaining at some point.) Firstly I read the typical modern platitudinal talking points (with an element of truth to them): “What was a miracle yesterday, was not today.” This sounds true to a lot of people, and in a shallow sense it is of course. But sometime pay close attention. You’ll notice people who say things like “We just haven’t explained it yet” seldom say any more than that and never give specifics as to what they mean or might envision as a preliminary explanation. Their immediate goal is to posture and suspend the reason of the common man with their elitist garble. That’s the first thing I would have you liberated from. Yet you certainly sound like you’re speaking from the heart in saying that the miracle is your readiness to believe! How profound a statement! Already I am faced with the fact that you are more worthy of faith than I ever was, and it humbles me. Faith is certainly a gift, but even your desire to have faith is a grace, don’t forget that. I think I may know why you’ve been turned off lately. We Catholics can be a crazy lot. I’m not just going to stand here and say you need the Church; I’m also going to say the Church needs you. Let’s talk about some specific miracles and miracle-prone persons: you have Our Lady of Guadalupe, the Eucharistic Miracle at Lanciano, Saint “Padre” Pio. Mind you, these are simply off the top of my head, but I choose them not just because of their “sensational” miraculous nature but their spiritually transformative power (in my life and those of many) to match. I think you have been graced with the correct spirit. I am truly in awe. If you knew what a gift that is and what may be done with it! I know I am not worthy to help point you whither your heart pulls you, but my hope is to not get in the way. You are in my poor prayers to the Queen of Heaven on this Feast of her Immaculate Conception! (Explain what 2/3 refers to?)
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StrawberryJam
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I am told, one must have faith, hope and love.
I have hope, I have love. I lack faith.
Simply because, I have some areas I am and will continue to discuss each week I go to Holy Mass, and more often than that. I somehow feel as if daily Mass is not “counting” or is important at all. I happen to like the mornings I am able to attend daily Mass. Because they are in the old chapel, where there is a Mary on the left, a Joseph on the right, and the Saviour on a Cross in the middle.
That is not how it is on Sunday Holy Mass Obligation. Or even Saturday at 5 pm which meets the requirement for Obligation in this arch.
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Vince1022
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Interesting, thanks.
As the Catholic Encyclopedia notes, “No historically trustworthy evidence of his ancestry or the events of his life exists, except for the fact of his episcopate.”
So the Anglican reference you cite regarding his slapping Arius is obviously highly speculative.
The second link you provided had nothing to say about this issue.
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Vince1022
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Of course there was East and West before the Schism. I never said otherwise.
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vera_dicere
Guest
My sister is 26, and she wholeheartedly believes in Santa. She reckons she saw him on a hotel roof back when she was 7 and half asleep. She refuses to beleive he’s not real!
Anyway, I don’t have kids, but I figure when I do I’ll be upfront about Santa, not so much because its about not lying, but rather because I hate the commercialised, gluttonest nature of the jolly man in the red suit.
Granted, I don’t think its that bad of a “sin”, really, parents lie to their kids all the time. I mean, I remember my parents “lying” to me when I asked about a guy who had murdered some kids a few streets away, they said he was far far away trying to escape the cops, a few days later he was caught next door. -_-
Anyway, I don’t have kids, but I figure when I do I’ll be upfront about Santa, not so much because its about not lying, but rather because I hate the commercialised, gluttonest nature of the jolly man in the red suit.
Granted, I don’t think its that bad of a “sin”, really, parents lie to their kids all the time. I mean, I remember my parents “lying” to me when I asked about a guy who had murdered some kids a few streets away, they said he was far far away trying to escape the cops, a few days later he was caught next door. -_-
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StrawberryJam
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You provide an excellent example of why one should be hesitant to accept anything told to us by trusted persons, no matter who they be.
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Reservoir_Dog
Guest
The Arian heresy spread far beyond the Council in 325, which was the problem in the mid to late 5th century when Roman Gaul (which was Catholic) was being overrun by Germanic tribes that were either pagan or had been converted to Arian Christianity. What Nicholas did or didn’t to to Arius is trivial and unimportant. Roman Catholicism (and trinitarianism) lucked out because the Frankish warlord who conquered the last Roman holdout in Gaul and who was ultimately strong enough to control most of western Europe was, very improbably, a Roman Catholic convert (through his wife, who also was, improbably, RC). He (Clovis) was apparently the only Roman Catholic among the lot.
That’s why the RC Church thrived in the West, because the Gallo-Romans and the Franks had common ground. If an Arian warlord or warlords had prevailed, I think the RC Church would have been confined to southern Italy and north Africa, expanded a little when the Eastern Empire retook Italy and parts of north Africa, and collapsed again after the steam ran out of Justinian’s campaigns and the Islamic conquest began.
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Reservoir_Dog
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The whole thing is irrelevant trivia to me – but someone else had commented on it, I’d heard the same story in a sermon the past Sunday, 30 seconds of research turned up a pair of sources. You are wrong about what the second source - ewtn.com/library/mary/nicholas.htm - says in the third paragraph:
“St. Methodius adds that “thanks to the teaching of St. Nicholas, the metropolis of Myra alone was untouched by the filth of the Arian heresy, which it firmly rejected as a death-dealing poison.” He does not speak of Nicholas’ presence at the Council of Nicaea, but according to other traditions he was not only there but went so far in his indignation as to slap the arch-heretic Arius in the face!”
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Vince1022
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Thanks. Sorry I missed that. Still, it’s not necessarily historically accurate.
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johnpfmcguire
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Key question: do you mean human hope & love or theological?
Don’t jump so at every opportunity to speculate. You don’t know any more than a babe in arms knows about what would have happened had things gone differently. History is mystery. That’s what the wise know. Historians who “speculate” really “project” their wishful thinking to justify a certain world-view and garner support for an unworthy agenda (as Dan Brown does), to make their quirks of thought appear somehow mainstream, somehow scientific or somehow spiritual lest anyone discover that they’re really as sordid as it gets. I happen to rest assured that this is by no means the case with you, so this is purely a discussion on style between us please note: you had better choose between fact and fiction to earn your bread. I have the greatest respect for good fiction but good history takes a discipline and restraint unknown to most modern men.
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johnpfmcguire
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I don’t know my dad ever deliberately lied to me. He did tell me that there was no such thing as magic (which there certainly is) and that there had been no “mad” saints (which many saints indeed were, at least to most natural, untransformed criteria), but that’s just because (with all respect) he is such a modern establishment believer. That’s got nothing to do with history. I still pray one day he’ll distinguish, that many will distinguish, that you reading this, if you do not already, will distinguish.
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StrawberryJam
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Magic or miracles?
He is within his bounds to say there is no magic.
I have never seen or heard of a case where James Randi wouldn’t be able to tell you what the tricks are or offer the person claiming they can preform magic a ton of money to step up and show evidence of their magic.
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StrawberryJam
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He is right to question things, and even speculate. History is written by the victors.
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johnpfmcguire
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Oh dear, you assume I’m talking about parlor tricks. Is this all you atheists know of magic? Willful ignorance to support a weak creed, sounds to me. But if you want to join the big leagues read A History of Magic and the Occult, then we can continue this discussion on solid ground.
Logical link between the two statements?
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StAnastasia
Guest
We shared the St. Nicholas legend with our children, but always kept it distinct from Christmas. We celebrated St. Nicholas day by having my father (who had retained his red chasuble from when he used to be a priest) appear at our house on December 6. He came in chasuble, mitre, and crozier, and sat down with our children to give a little spiritual talk at their level. He left them with a gift and some gold-foil covered chocolate coins.
The boys treasured this tradition, and still remember it fondly although they are now in their teens. We always kept it separate in time and theme from Christmas itself, which we celebrated as a familial and liturgical feast of the birth of Christ.
StAnasasia
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Being_Brave
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I don’t have kids yet, but I’ve been thinking a lot about how I would approach this, and I plan on doing it just like that…good to know it works
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