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Rascalking
Guest
She’s free to do what she wants, clearly, but-er;…ouch!
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Dale_M
Guest
Okay, she wears a cilice. Big deal. However, once you get past the first couple paragraphs, the article turns into an interesting discussion of why two accomplished women chose to join Opus Dei.
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bbarrick8383
Guest
What’s the general opinion of Catholics on Opus Dei?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I doubt many Catholics know much about Opus Dei, and I imagine most get what information they do receive from hostile sources like this one.
I have never seen a cilice, but my son, who worked for a summer for Opus Dei in the South Bronx teaching underprivileged young men, has seen and held one. He is not a member, but said the cilice is not that big a deal. Mildly irritating in a “scratchy” sense, but nothing more. Hardly the “barbed wire” the article talks about.
I think Cursillo members wear a pebble in their shoe for the same sort of reason; a reminder and a mild penance thing at the same time.
Getting back to my son’s experience, he spent some time living as the Opus Dei people do, and being at their headquarters in NYC. He describes it as disciplined in a good sense. (Moderate but adequate meals, efficient in activities, regularity of habits, very purposeful in their ways.) but a long way from “punishing”. They do a lot of praying, but it’s not like cloistered religious or anything. He also described the members he met as extraordinary people in a lot of ways. Very intelligent. Well educated for the most part. Extremely good people. One of their practices is to have after-dinner discourses on varying subjects. Might be religious or philosophical. Might be about business and the economy. Might be about scientific or technical things. Might be about the law. Might be about social problems. Some of the leaders of those discussions are some of the most brilliant minds in the field. They often have a beer or other drink (one) during those discussions, and he described them as pleasant and enlightening.
I see no reason to condemn these people or this movement. Yes, they’re sort of heroic in their ways, but goodness, in this day and age, heroes are hard to come by. Oftentimes, for those of us who are not heroic, it’s hard to understand those who are.
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manualman
Guest
Big deal. It amounts to a 21st century hairshirt. 
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Another_Mary
Guest
Ridgerunner–thanks for the info about your son’s experience!
I find it interesting that in today’s culture celibacy (and chastity for that matter) are thought of as a little strange, while living together and “hooking up” are no big thing. Fasting is weird (why would anyone do that?) while not eating in order to lose weight is a Good Thing. Wearing a cilice for a few hours is really questionable, yet piercings in odd and uncomfortable places are an acceptable and personal choice.
Out of curiousity I subscribed to an Opus Dei email newsletter and haven’t seen anything strange in it. Actually, in my area of the country the environmental organizations I’ve looked into are a lot more cult-like in appearance than Opus Dei. And one of the differences is that the environmental folks actively solicit grant money and loudly and publicly proclaim their “good works”.
I find it interesting that in today’s culture celibacy (and chastity for that matter) are thought of as a little strange, while living together and “hooking up” are no big thing. Fasting is weird (why would anyone do that?) while not eating in order to lose weight is a Good Thing. Wearing a cilice for a few hours is really questionable, yet piercings in odd and uncomfortable places are an acceptable and personal choice.
Out of curiousity I subscribed to an Opus Dei email newsletter and haven’t seen anything strange in it. Actually, in my area of the country the environmental organizations I’ve looked into are a lot more cult-like in appearance than Opus Dei. And one of the differences is that the environmental folks actively solicit grant money and loudly and publicly proclaim their “good works”.
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
I don’t like how the article uses the biased and incorrect term “self-harm” for mortification. The purpose of penance and mortification is to gain benefits for oneself (and for others). Also, any penitential practice that caused physical harm to the body would be sinful. This type of mortification doesn’t do physical damage, and provides spiritual benefit.
It would be like calling exercise “self-harm”. I can see why some people would call it that, but the purpose of exercise is not to harm yourself, as awful as it feels when you’re doing it. And I doubt that this little chain worn on the leg is anywhere near as painful as, say, doing pushups or running until you can’t run anymore.
It would be like calling exercise “self-harm”. I can see why some people would call it that, but the purpose of exercise is not to harm yourself, as awful as it feels when you’re doing it. And I doubt that this little chain worn on the leg is anywhere near as painful as, say, doing pushups or running until you can’t run anymore.
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Adeodatus
Guest
I suppose it’s a sad commentary on our culture that many people will discuss pornography and, um, ‘personal devices’ among relative strangers / acquaintances and not see anything strange about it… but would regard anyone who wore a cilice as a suspicious deviant.
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Dale_M
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Of course, the reason the article (and it is the Daily Mail, after all) opened with mention of the cilice is because many readers would assume it somehow related to being a “personal device.” A suggestion of prurience always attracts interest.
Of course, it could be said that its a sign of the times that use of a cilice might be read in sexual terms.
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InSearchofGrace
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You’re right. I find that not many Catholics know about Opus Dei. As for non-Catholics, many believe it is a cult, thanks to Dan Brown’s blockbuster book and its movie version, Da Vinci Code, failing to consider that it is a work of fiction.
Since I was 15, and having spent a good many years in an all-girls Catholic school run by German nuns, my classmates and I had known about Opus Dei. One gifted and beautiful girl in her senior year was president of the student council. She later offered her life to God as a supernumerary in Opus Dei. I don’t know what line of work she undertook, but I would be surprised if her days as a lay person are not spent in grace and closeness with God.
There was another girl, with whom I was close during my college years. She graduated as magna cum laude. After some years in the business world, where she excelled in work as a certified public accountant, she also joined OD. To this day, she is a numerary, while heading a private NGO, providing scholarships for vocational-technical courses to young underprivileged women.
The rest of us, of course, did not enter Opus Dei, but we look upon those who did with great admiration.
I wish Catholics would read more about Jose Maria Escriva and the history of Opus Dei from its formation in 1928 and approval by the Holy See years later. Its mission is to carry out evangelizing according to the Church’s goals, by promoting among Christians of all social classes a life fully consistent with their faith, in the middle of ordinary circumstances and especially through sanctification of their chosen work.
As for self-mortification ‘devices’, I have not heard of implements for kinky or deviant use. Rather, they are objects that remind the wearer of atonement, or causing slight discomfort. The cilice by that albino monk shown in Da Vinci movie is exaggerated; the real thing does not have sharp claws or draw blood. Mortification is usually achieved by small acts of sacrifice, like skipping a meal or being nice to people who are annoying.
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bbarrick8383
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Being the big fan of reading that I am, I have read Da Vinci Code, all the Harry Potter books, Christopher Paolini’s books, Mark Twain and on and on.
I like to think that I have the natural ability to seperate the stories into a general fact or ficition mostly based on common sense. After reading Brown’s book, which I thought was decent even though I haven’t read anything else he has written, one of the first things I did was look up Opus Dei. This was before I was looking into joining the Catholic Church. I found the organization quite interesting and part of the reason I asked what the general Catholic opinion was of them.
I am surprised to read that many Catholics don’t know who they are. But I have the same admiration for those who live that life, I’ve got the same admiration for Priests. Being a protestant all my life, I use to think as a teenager of becoming a preacher.
Then came along girls and a drivers license. I’m just glad I was lucky enough to make it through all of that and come out a halfway decen person…arguably.
Thanks for all of your (name removed by moderator)uts, I will go do some more reading on them.
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InSearchofGrace
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Hey halfway decent person … arguably,
May God keep you in His embrace. Good luck with the RCIA.
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bbarrick8383
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Thank you, you know. I’ve had that on my profile since I’ve been around these forums. I’ve been putting it off for too long now with enough excuses for 10 people.Hey halfway decent person … arguably,
May God keep you in His embrace. Good luck with the RCIA.
So I just checked, the classes start next Tuesday. This thread couldn’t have come at a better time.
I’ll be a Catholic next year, wait and see.
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jaaraf
Guest
I’m an associate member of Opus Dei. I live with my family because of my personal, family and professional circumstances, but I also live apostolic celibacy, and like the numeraries, I do wear the cilice. We wear it for two hours a day as a means of penance and mortification, a prayer of the body to offer to others, (excluding Sundays and feastdays).
It is uncomfortable and leave me with a few scatches… then again, there have been several occasions that I have been so tired from work that I ended up sleeping while still wearing it.
It is uncomfortable and leave me with a few scatches… then again, there have been several occasions that I have been so tired from work that I ended up sleeping while still wearing it.
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HCC
Guest
Sex and the Opus Dei? That’s what that article looks like.
Not a fan of Opus Dei…
An order that has to use secretive infiltration methods has something seriously wrong with it.
Not a fan of Opus Dei…
An order that has to use secretive infiltration methods has something seriously wrong with it.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Not sure what you’re referring to by “secretive infiltration methods”. It’s part of the Opus Dei objective to provide both Christian and “secular” models in their “secular lives”; mostly their workplaces. It’s a way of “witnessing” to the world. One practices one’s profession diligently, competently and honestly, while acting in a truly Christian way toward one’s fellow workers. But one doesn’t go into, say, a new job, first day and say “Hey, I’m Catholic and, by the way, a member of Opus Dei, and I’m here to try to persuade you to live Christian lives and convert as many of you as I can.” However, one does not shy away from discussions about religion and Christian principles. Nor does one shy away from disclosing that one is Catholic or even a member of Opus Dei, if the disclosure is appropriate in the situation. “Disclose, but don’t impose”, in short.
In truth, we all should be doing what the Opus Dei people are doing.
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jaaraf
Guest
My closest friends and my family members know I am a member of Opus Dei. So do some people I work with on a regular basis, as well as my classmates or schoolmates in college (I joined the Work shortly before finishing my undergraduate degree) and in medical school. If you are worried about infiltration, I can tell you that I am the only one in my immediate workplace who is a member of the Work. In my college as well as my medical school batch, I am the only member of the Work as well. So much for infiltration!
If you are worried about secrecy, I do try to explain the Work to those who ask about it and disclose my being a member as well…
If you are worried about my forcing my views on everyone, let me tell you that I have stopped inviting a good fried from attending the activities offered by a Center of Opus Dei as soon as she admitted to me that she was not at all interested in it. We are still good friends to this day, and we happen to even work together now.
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