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ralphinal
Guest
Ravyn,
As always, you have my prayers and admiration.
As always, you have my prayers and admiration.
- Status
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=2704.msg38252#msg38252
I am Cammy on that forum. Feel free to click on my avatar and read my profile and click on the ‘show all posts’—read anything you want. my struggle with faith is in this post:
jwsupportforum.com/index.php?topic=2981.msg41568#msg41568
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
ok six screens should be up and running after midnght with more bandwidth and I will be on the conference call tomorrow AFTER David Reed, around 8:15-8:30ish.
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yellowbird
Guest
I’m not saying I don’t believe YOU - I don’t know you. But I have know ALOT of JW’s - elders etc. and they avoided EVERYTHING that even “hinted” at being of Satan. They saw evil all over and avoided it at all costs.
I’m curious if you always remembered these experiences, or are these represed memories that have surfaced?
Edit: I see the previous post where you said you have always remembered.
OK, still… I’m at a loss actually…
Rituals with snakes and the Watchtower Gov. Body? Where were your parents?
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yellowbird
Guest
Nevermind - questions answered from link you provided.
I’m not saying I don’t believe YOU - I don’t know you. But I have know ALOT of JW’s - elders etc. and they avoided EVERYTHING that even “hinted” at being of Satan. They saw evil all over and avoided it at all costs.
I’m curious if you always remembered these experiences, or are these represed memories that have surfaced?
Edit: I see the previous post where you said you have always remembered.
OK, still… I’m at a loss actually…
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Snow
Guest
Indicators that SRA is bogus:
"FRAUDS IN THE SRA INDUSTRY
Much of the public’s current beliefs about Satanism and SRA can be traced back to four books: Michelle Remembers, Satan Seller, Satan’s Underground and He Came to Set the Captives Free. All contain what the authors claim to be personal experiences with Satanism - as victim or perpetrator. All four have been proven to be frauds by various Evangelical and Wiccan investigators. Various television exposes of SRA (20-20, Geraldo, and other talk shows) featured these authors. There are many dozens of additional books which are mainly written by Evangelical authors which appear to use combinations of these four books for source material. A study by the Wiccan Information Network has shown that there is no agreement by these authors on the Satanic seasonal days of celebration. The dates mentioned in these books appear to be guesses by their authors. If Satanic dates are simply invented, one may wonder whether the rest of the books are based on reality.
The most important book (the one which originally triggered the SRA panic) is Michelle Remembers by Dr. Lawrence Pazder and Michelle Smith (Pocket Books 1980; ISBN 0-671-69433-2). An investigation by the Wiccan Information Network revealed that the horrendous rituals described in the book originated in Pazder’s personal study of benign African native religious practices.
Ultimately, all of the beliefs about SRA can be traced back to the above four books, to people’s imagination and to the Malleus Maleficarum (the text book of the Witch burning times).
If SRA existed, then one would logically expect that a SRA survivor somewhere who had continuously present memories would write a non-fraudulent book describing their abuse experiences, either as victim or perpetrator." (RT)
"FRAUDS IN THE SRA INDUSTRY
Much of the public’s current beliefs about Satanism and SRA can be traced back to four books: Michelle Remembers, Satan Seller, Satan’s Underground and He Came to Set the Captives Free. All contain what the authors claim to be personal experiences with Satanism - as victim or perpetrator. All four have been proven to be frauds by various Evangelical and Wiccan investigators. Various television exposes of SRA (20-20, Geraldo, and other talk shows) featured these authors. There are many dozens of additional books which are mainly written by Evangelical authors which appear to use combinations of these four books for source material. A study by the Wiccan Information Network has shown that there is no agreement by these authors on the Satanic seasonal days of celebration. The dates mentioned in these books appear to be guesses by their authors. If Satanic dates are simply invented, one may wonder whether the rest of the books are based on reality.
The most important book (the one which originally triggered the SRA panic) is Michelle Remembers by Dr. Lawrence Pazder and Michelle Smith (Pocket Books 1980; ISBN 0-671-69433-2). An investigation by the Wiccan Information Network revealed that the horrendous rituals described in the book originated in Pazder’s personal study of benign African native religious practices.
Ultimately, all of the beliefs about SRA can be traced back to the above four books, to people’s imagination and to the Malleus Maleficarum (the text book of the Witch burning times).
If SRA existed, then one would logically expect that a SRA survivor somewhere who had continuously present memories would write a non-fraudulent book describing their abuse experiences, either as victim or perpetrator." (RT)
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yellowbird
Guest
Ravyn,
Since reading your post late last night, I’ve thought about you and I’m curious about your experience.
This began when you were 3 ? When did it end? I read on the other forum that your father was involved? Was your mother aware that her little girl was being used in this way?
Do you think the governing body is currently using toddlers in this way? Did they continue to use children after you?
What is the purpose in using children in this way? If it wasn’t some sort of sexual perversion… what were they getting out of it?
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Snow
Guest
Indicators that SRA is bogus - cont:
"LACK OF SURVIVORS’ DOCUMENTATION PRIOR TO 1980
The term “SRA survivor” is used to describe adults who have memories of SRA which happened. Usually, they had not been aware of these experiences until recovered memories are developed during therapy. There are no records of SRA survivors having gone public in the 20th century prior to the publishing of Michelle Remembers.
If SRA has been practiced for many generations (as the promoters of SRA believe) then someone should have come forward before 1980 to reveal their abuse." (RT)
"LACK OF SURVIVORS’ DOCUMENTATION PRIOR TO 1980
The term “SRA survivor” is used to describe adults who have memories of SRA which happened. Usually, they had not been aware of these experiences until recovered memories are developed during therapy. There are no records of SRA survivors having gone public in the 20th century prior to the publishing of Michelle Remembers.
If SRA has been practiced for many generations (as the promoters of SRA believe) then someone should have come forward before 1980 to reveal their abuse." (RT)
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
you can listen in to the call and hear the rest of the details.
thank you all for your support and prayers. this is a BIG deal for me. I am not doing it to be validated, I am doing it to help others who may be suffering like I did (and thought I was the only one.)
the site has exceeded its bandwidth it was so busy–so it is supposed to be fixed and I will be on the conference call tonight at about 8:15 ish after an interview with David Reed. The phone number for the call is: 712-432-8710 and the pin number is 9925.
the podcast will be available a few days after the call on the website for free.
thank you all for your support and prayers. this is a BIG deal for me. I am not doing it to be validated, I am doing it to help others who may be suffering like I did (and thought I was the only one.)
the site has exceeded its bandwidth it was so busy–so it is supposed to be fixed and I will be on the conference call tonight at about 8:15 ish after an interview with David Reed. The phone number for the call is: 712-432-8710 and the pin number is 9925.
the podcast will be available a few days after the call on the website for free.
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Dempsey1919
Guest
This is very interesting. I am not calling the OP a liar but I have seriously doubt that Satanism really exists. Afterall, why would anybody worship an evil being that hates humanity? It makes no sense whatsoever. I think Satanism is a medieval Christian invention based on the superstitious fears of the time. I do not think that Satanism ever existed except in the minds of fearful Christians.
However, I am more than willing to change my views if someone provides information and evidence to suggest that there is such a religion as satanism. I know that there is LaVeyan satanism, but I am referring to the worship of the fallen angel Lucifer, the diabolical enemy of all that is good. Is this form of Satanism a reality? Or is it only an urban legend?
However, I am more than willing to change my views if someone provides information and evidence to suggest that there is such a religion as satanism. I know that there is LaVeyan satanism, but I am referring to the worship of the fallen angel Lucifer, the diabolical enemy of all that is good. Is this form of Satanism a reality? Or is it only an urban legend?
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Snow
Guest
Without addressing whether the OP has personal experience or not, there is no evidence.
Another indication that SRA is bogus:
"OTHER FRAUDS IN THE SRA INDUSTRY
Some of the SRA authors and lecturers have been investigated by both Neopagan and Evangelical Christian groups and shown to be frauds . Many lecturers in the industry say that they were once Satanists or “black Witches”, rose to a position of great power, engaged in horrendous rituals, converted to Evangelical Christianity, and then became an author and seminar leader.
If SRA exists, then one would expect most of the authors and lecturers to have left Satanism as a “plain ordinary member.” Some should have converted to mainline Christianity, to liberal Christianity or to a religion other than Christianity. Yet none fitting these profiles has ever been found." (RT)
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Dempsey1919
Guest
I would be interested in discussing SRA. Maybe we should start another thread?
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Ravyn_Guiliani
Guest
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Mystic_Warrior
Guest
Snow,
This is the typical diatribe against SRA abuse cases. And you seem really eager to post several of these. For those of us in the deliverance ministry and ex-cult ministry your presuppositions are just as flawed in logic and reality as what we propose.
The reality is that SRA is complex. The minds of victims create alter personalities to deal with the trauma they endure. It’s a natural thing for the mind to do. It can’t handle the experiences and splits into personalities in order to survive.
There’s lots of programming that is involved with this abuse and victims have to be de-programmed and alters have to be assimilated back into one complete whole. If you don’t think that mind control is a reality, look up CIA use of it on unsuspecting people.
I won’t change your mind, but it would be nice if you would stop your agenda here.
MW
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survive
Guest
It’s complex. Some occultists get into black magic after being slowly induced to think of morality as a weakness. Then they turn little-by-little more inclined to think there may be actual beings that trade favors with the ones in the know. They soon want desperately to be among those in the know and get favors. It usually passes soon after it starts because the betrayals start right away and the practitioners are scared and sorry. But I know sociopaths exist, and they have no capacity to be sorry and little ability to learn fom negative experiences, so it’s possible that long-term satanism exists. If so, I doubt very much that giant networks of them are hiding everywhere, but I have seen enough people abuse people to gues they do a lot to make it look that way to intimidate victims.
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Snow
Guest
Indicators that SRA is bogus:
"5. COURT CASES IN THE EARLY 1980’S
There were dozens of court cases involving SRA in the five years following the publishing of Michelle Remembers. Typically, charges were brought by a young adult against her/his parents, accusing them of SRA which allegedly occurred during the 1960’s and/or 1970’s. The testimony revealed rituals identical to (or essentially duplicates of) those described in the book Michelle Remembers. But, as has been shown above, that book is fiction; those rituals only existed in the mind of the authors. One must conclude that the survivors were either lying, or were basing their testimony on false memories. (False memories feel like real memories; however they are of events that never happened. The survivor is usually unaware of these memories until they are recovered during Recovered Memory Therapy, which may use hypnotism, age regression, guided imagery and other suggestive therapies). It is very doubtful that they were lying; no known researcher in the field accuses the survivors of perjury. We conclude that they were based on false memories.
If SRA really existed as a secret, inter-generational underground movement, we would have expected court cases to have been brought forward during at least the entire 20th Century. And the testimony given at the trials would not have been based on a fraudulent book." (RT)
"5. COURT CASES IN THE EARLY 1980’S
There were dozens of court cases involving SRA in the five years following the publishing of Michelle Remembers. Typically, charges were brought by a young adult against her/his parents, accusing them of SRA which allegedly occurred during the 1960’s and/or 1970’s. The testimony revealed rituals identical to (or essentially duplicates of) those described in the book Michelle Remembers. But, as has been shown above, that book is fiction; those rituals only existed in the mind of the authors. One must conclude that the survivors were either lying, or were basing their testimony on false memories. (False memories feel like real memories; however they are of events that never happened. The survivor is usually unaware of these memories until they are recovered during Recovered Memory Therapy, which may use hypnotism, age regression, guided imagery and other suggestive therapies). It is very doubtful that they were lying; no known researcher in the field accuses the survivors of perjury. We conclude that they were based on false memories.
If SRA really existed as a secret, inter-generational underground movement, we would have expected court cases to have been brought forward during at least the entire 20th Century. And the testimony given at the trials would not have been based on a fraudulent book." (RT)
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Snow
Guest
A diatribe is a forceful bitter attack. Do you see anything bitter or untrue in what I say?
Rather that simply labeling my posts with loaded words like diatribe or flawed in logic, perhaps you can demonstrate that they are flawed or untrue.
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Mystic_Warrior
Guest
Okay, instead I will call it a cut-n-paste agenda that you have. Perhaps you can have a conversation about it where you know anything about it yourself instead of taking it from someone else. I have personal experience, as do many others about the realities of SRA. Do you have any?
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Snow
Guest
Can I take your avoidance of my question as a “no?”
Frankly I am not interested in your personal experience. Anyone can (and do) say anything. What I am interested in is facts.
How many people in the US been convicted of satanic ritual abuse or convicted crimes associate with it?
I’m sure there are some fruitcakes that dress up in goofy clothes commit crimes while pretending to worship Lucifer or maybe even some random nuts that are so tweaked that they actually do think they worship ole scratch, but what verifiable evidence exists that there is a “widespread, underground, secret network of Satanic cults were kidnapping, sexually and physically abusing infants and children, murdering them, and sometimes even eating them?”
- How many documented cases of SRA were there prior to the hysteria of the 1980’s?
- How many documented, (verified in court decisions) SRA victims have there been?
- How many victims of false memory implantation are there?
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Snow
Guest
I finally got into the website: sixscreensofthewatchtower.com/screenshome.html
What an embarrassment.
What evidence do you have that there is more child abuse inside the JW movement than in the general population?
- Status