Satanic Verses?

[Zlatan]

Did the Satanic Verses Happen? For those who dont know i am not refering to the book by Salmon Rushdie but rather an incident which is said to have taken place by several early muslim exergetes and is widely denied by muslims as it in one sentence destroy’s the claims of Islam. The incident is supposed to have taken place when Mohammed longed to convert his pagan kinsman from Mecca to his new religion. As he recited the Surah An-Najm he was reportedly tempted by the “devil” to have reverted to paganism in order to gain their favor. he Said

An-Najm 53:19-22
Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

By describing them as exalted cranes he accepted the pagan gods as intermediaries thus destroying islam’s claim of the oneness of god. Mohammed soon realised his mistake and the following verse was “magicaly” revealed and substituted for the satanic verses.

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

here Mohammed disapproves of the pagan deities of the Meccans.
Mohammed felt bad about his slip up and another verse was revealed to console him for his blunder.

022.052
And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan (Satan) made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise

So Allah annulled “Satan’s” words. Muslims exegetes described these satanic verses as having been cast on the tongue of the prophet by Satan.

Ishaq:166
“Then Allah annulled what Satan had cast, and established his verses by telling him that he was like other prophets and messengers. Every Messenger or Prophet before you recited the message Satan cast into his recitation. Allah abrogates what Satan casts. Then Allah established his verses.’”

Ishaq:166
“‘You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from Allah, and you have said that which He did not say to you.’ The Messenger was grieved and feared Allah greatly. So Allah sent a revelation to him, consoling him and making light of the affair [of worldly bargains and Satanic indulgences]. He informed him that there had never been a prophet or messenger before who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had interjected them on Muhammad’s tongue and into his desires.”

Tabari VI:110
“Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, **that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval **. He now revealed, following the mention of ‘Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,’ the words: 'are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division!”

Tabari VI:110
“When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has **repented **of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah.”

Tabari VI:107
“Satan Cast a False Qur’an Revelation on the Messenger of Allah’s Tongue.”

Muslims claim that all these ahadith verses are corrupted and the event never took place for obvious reasons. They claim that Tabari invented the story some 200 years later . However Tabari’s hadith was based directly on that of Ibn Ishaq who wrote the biography of the prophet around 761-767. Tabari claims this at the chain of transmission from this hadith. Unfortunately Ibn Ishaq’s hadith has been lost to history but these accounts are very intriguing as they do examine the relationship between early Islam and paganism though im sure all Muslims on CAF will claim they are unauthentic just as they claim that anything which damages their faith in the ahadith is unauthentic,

 

[inJESUS]

Yes Muslims will reject all their literature to deny the incident…these Islamic scholars must have been under-cover Jews yet they will cite them whenever needed…democracy.

 

[Zlatan]

yes Muslims are hypocrites they use various ahadith when it suits them and when it doesnt they call those ahadith mostly corrupted. They do the same thing with the bible. They call it “vile” and “corrupted” and then try to prove that Mohammed was predicted in the bible, the logic of which is unbelievably stupid. So Muslims alone chose when something is corrupted and when something isn’t. I have seen them do the same thing with the Buddhist, Zoroastrian and Hindu scriptures. They call them “evil” and “pagan” and then again hypocritically try to prove that Mohammed was predicted in these earlier holy scriptures. hahaha why use a supposedly corrupted document to prove the veracity of your religion? haahh it doesn’t make sense

 

[SunfromtheWest]

Sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not authentic books to refer to hadiths.

you have to look at real sahih hadiths or mutawattir hadiths.
Many hadiths unfortuneately today are untrue, so there is a system of knowing if a hadith is authentic or not. you have to look at chain of narrators, who said it ( was the person authentic himself/herself?), etc.

im not sure on the rest of the system, but it is pretty long and complicated.

 

[Zlatan]

Sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not authentic books to refer to hadiths.

really? then why have i seen islamic scholars who claim that Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are mostly authentic and the most authentic of all the ahadith?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Did the Satanic Verses Happen? ,

“No falsehood can approach it from the front, nor from the rear (i.e. neither directly nor indirectly).

It is sent-down from Allah the All-Wise, the All-Praiseworthy.”

[Qur’an 41:42]

“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).” [Qur’an 15:9]

a related link:

Alleged Satanic Verse

islamonline.net/english/In_Depth/mohamed/1424/misconception/article04.shtml

 

[swariffin]

Did the Satanic Verses Happen? For those who dont know i am not refering to the book by Salmon Rushdie but rather an incident which is said to have taken place by several early muslim exergetes and is widely denied by muslims as it in one sentence destroy’s the claims of Islam. The incident is supposed to have taken place when Mohammed longed to convert his pagan kinsman from Mecca to his new religion. As he recited the Surah An-Najm he was reportedly tempted by the “devil” to have reverted to paganism in order to gain their favor. he Said

An-Najm 53:19-22
Near it is the Garden of Abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded (in mystery unspeakable!) (His) sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the Signs of his Lord, the Greatest! Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat? These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

By describing them as exalted cranes he accepted the pagan gods as intermediaries thus destroying islam’s claim of the oneness of god. Mohammed soon realised his mistake and the following verse was “magicaly” revealed and substituted for the satanic verses.

What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female? Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

here Mohammed disapproves of the pagan deities of the Meccans.
Mohammed felt bad about his slip up and another verse was revealed to console him for his blunder.

022.052
And We did not send before you any messenger or prophet, but when he desired, the Shaitan (Satan) made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise

So Allah annulled “Satan’s” words. Muslims exegetes described these satanic verses as having been cast on the tongue of the prophet by Satan.

Ishaq:166
“Then Allah annulled what Satan had cast, and established his verses by telling him that he was like other prophets and messengers. Every Messenger or Prophet before you recited the message Satan cast into his recitation. Allah abrogates what Satan casts. Then Allah established his verses.’”

Ishaq:166
“‘You have recited to the people that which I did not bring to you from Allah, and you have said that which He did not say to you.’ The Messenger was grieved and feared Allah greatly. So Allah sent a revelation to him, consoling him and making light of the affair [of worldly bargains and Satanic indulgences]. He informed him that there had never been a prophet or messenger before who desired as he desired and wished as he wished but that Satan had cast words into his recitation, as he had interjected them on Muhammad’s tongue and into his desires.”

Tabari VI:110
“Thus Allah removed the sorrow from his Messenger, reassured him about that which he had feared, and cancelled the words which Satan had cast on his tongue, **that their gods were exalted high-flying cranes (goddesses) whose intercession was accepted with approval **. He now revealed, following the mention of ‘Al-Lat, Al-Uzza, and Manat,’ the words: 'are yours the males and his the females? That indeed is an unfair division!”

Tabari VI:110
“When Muhammad brought a revelation from Allah canceling what Satan had cast on the tongue of His Prophet, the Quraysh said, 'Muhammad has **repented **of what he said concerning the position of our gods with Allah.”

Tabari VI:107
“Satan Cast a False Qur’an Revelation on the Messenger of Allah’s Tongue.”

Muslims claim that all these ahadith verses are corrupted and the event never took place for obvious reasons. They claim that Tabari invented the story some 200 years later . However Tabari’s hadith was based directly on that of Ibn Ishaq who wrote the biography of the prophet around 761-767. Tabari claims this at the chain of transmission from this hadith. Unfortunately Ibn Ishaq’s hadith has been lost to history but these accounts are very intriguing as they do examine the relationship between early Islam and paganism though im sure all Muslims on CAF will claim they are unauthentic just as they claim that anything which damages their faith in the ahadith is unauthentic,

One other time, There was a change of the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Ka’baa. Muslim Woman acknowledge that Allah does not preside there. So, why would Allah commands the people to pray to the direction where Allah is not there?? That must be from the enemy of Allah. Muhammad was fouled when he obeyed the so called word from Allah, to change the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to Ka’baa.

 

[Sam_777]

Sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not authentic books to refer to hadiths.

It seems we have another “planten” here, you people who try to say such things about authentic Islamic Hadith, are doing that to hide Muhammed’s deeds.

Here are the definitions of “Sahih Bukhari” & " Sahih Muslim":

"Sahih Bukhari is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), also known as the sunnah. The reports of the Prophet’s sayings and deeds are called ahadith. Bukhari lived a couple of centuries after the Prophet’s death and worked extremely hard to collect his ahadith. Each report in his collection was checked for compatibility with the Qur’an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established. Bukhari’s collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). "

"Sahih Muslim is a collection of sayings and deeds of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) (also known as the sunnah). The reports of the Prophet’s sayings and deeds are called ahadith. Muslim lived a couple of centuries after the Prophet’s death and worked extremely hard to collect his ahadith. Each report in his collection was checked for compatibility with the Qur’an, and the veracity of the chain of reporters had to be painstakingly established. Muslim’s collection is recognized by the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world to be one of the most authentic collections of the Sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh). "

References:
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/sbtintro.html
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/smtintro.html

 

[Zlatan]

Muslim Woman’s response was predictable when in doubt , Deny Deny Deny!. Look how much muslims deny anything that makes them look bad. It pathetic really lol. Please tell me why early muslims exergetes would make up the story? thats what id like to know. prove to me it never happened!

 

[Zlatan]

Salaam/peace
“We indeed have sent down the recital (the Qur’an) and indeed are its Protectors (from any interference).” [Qur’an 15:9]
]

in light of that verse could you please explain to me how allah was unable to protect koranic verses from being interfered with and eaten by a goat? The stoning verses and some 125 other verses were lost because of a goat. You call that protecting the koran? hahah these verses were never even abrogated just lost.

Ibn-e-Maja. “Narrated by Hazrat Ā’ishah that ayat-e-Rajm and ayat Raza’at were revealed, they were written on something. I kept them under the cart, meanwhile the holy prophet died and we became busy and one GOAT came and ATE those ayyat”

 

[jblake]

Zlatan;:

Did the Satanic Verses Happen?

Considering that those verses utterly refute the six pillars islam, it is odd that they remained in the q’ran, even after the three major, and umpteen minor redactions of the q’ran that refuted far fewer of the core teachings of Islam.

Probably the best explanation of their presence, is that it yet another proof that the q’ran was written to unify and subjugate the nomadic tribes under a single political authority, using religion as its tool of oppression.

IOW, no it didn’t happen historically, but it did occur in the fiction that was written to produce the documents designed to enslave the world to chasing demonstrably false lunar goddesses, and an equally false lunar god.

xan

jonathon

 

[TomaszA]

Sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not authentic books to refer to hadiths.

you have to look at real sahih hadiths or mutawattir hadiths.
Many hadiths unfortuneately today are untrue, so there is a system of knowing if a hadith is authentic or not. you have to look at chain of narrators, who said it ( was the person authentic himself/herself?), etc.

im not sure on the rest of the system, but it is pretty long and complicated.

Sun, you should probably mention the fact that you are a Shia Muslim (if I’m not mistaken) and you reject Sunni sources of hadith.

 

[TomaszA]

Personally I think there is some legitimacy to the story. A believing Muslim would not invent a story that could potentially discredit Muhammad, especially since this is something carried via Islamic tradition. I wouldn’t be surprised if Muhammad said something that he regretted and then backtracked by saying it interjected by Satan. Likewise it’s not surprising that later Muslims would want to disavow the occurrence of this event.

Ironically, the charges against Jews and Christians altering their texts and sources can now be applied to Muslims!

 

[hamba2han]

I do not quite understand why the detractors of Islam are making such a big deal over these so-called “Satanic verses”.

After all, according to them, the whole of the Qur’an is “Satanic”.

If they are now saying that only some verses are “Satanic”, then do they have a Criterion to determine which verses are true and which are “Satanic”?

 

[TomaszA]

I do not quite understand why the detractors of Islam are making such a big deal over these so-called “Satanic verses”.

After all, according to them, the whole of the Qur’an is “Satanic”.

If they are now saying that only some verses are “Satanic”, then do they have a Criterion to determine which verses are true and which are “Satanic”?

Hamba2han, I think among other things, this is just another obstacle in accepting Muhammad as prophet. It’s not that some verses are inspired and others Satanic, it’s that Muhammad probably wasn’t inspired at all and that he used a Satan-inspired excuse to cover his mistake.

 

[Callin]

I do not quite understand why the detractors of Islam are making such a big deal over these so-called “Satanic verses”.

After all, according to them, the whole of the Qur’an is “Satanic”.

If they are now saying that only some verses are “Satanic”, then do they have a Criterion to determine which verses are true and which are “Satanic”?

I don’t think it’s so much who inspired them, rather that their existence would show that the unchangeable, infallible Quran was in fact…changed.

 

[Zlatan]

I do not quite understand why the detractors of Islam are making such a big deal over these so-called “Satanic verses”.

After all, according to them, the whole of the Qur’an is “Satanic”.

If they are now saying that only some verses are “Satanic”, then do they have a Criterion to determine which verses are true and which are “Satanic”?

Muslims at the time considered the verses satanic because they showed a reversion to paganism and destroyed the most important thing in Islam the oneness of god. How can a monotheistic god have pagan gods as intermediaries? The early Muslim exegetes tried to explain away the occurrence by claiming that Satan cast the word on Mohammed’s tounge so mohammed wasnt at fault, the devil made him do it.lol The detractors of Islam consider the satanic verses as evidence of a great influence upon Islam made by Arab Paganism. That’s why some make such a big deal. It is a big deal because if its true then Mohammed broke Islam’s golden rule and himself joined partners with Allah and he himself became a kafir before repenting of his mistake. Please explain to me why Muslim authors would invent such a story which discredits Islam? No sane Muslim would invent such a story. Either the story is true and tabari’s account came from Ishaq’s biography of Mohammed which is a very early work or Tabari just made up the whole story for no apparent reason. I don’t know it just seems unusual to me. Another thing which Muslims don’t seem to grasp is that Mohammed was himself raised a Pagan. His tribe were the keepers of the kaaba. In the book of idols we find evidence that he made a pagan sacrifice.

Pg 17 THE BOOK OF IDOLS, THE KITAB AL-ASNAM,BY HISHAM IBN-AL-KALBI
“We have been told that the Apostle of God once mentioned al-Uzza saying, "I have offered a white sheep to al-'Uzza, while I was a follower of the religion of my people.”

Muslims claim that Mohammed was never raised a pagan but this is illogical as it was his family’s religion.

 

[Zlatan]

Considering that those verses utterly refute the six pillars islam, it is odd that they remained in the q’ran, even after the three major, and umpteen minor redactions of the q’ran that refuted far fewer of the core teachings of Islam.

Probably the best explanation of their presence, is that it yet another proof that the q’ran was written to unify and subjugate the nomadic tribes under a single political authority, using religion as its tool of oppression.

IOW, no it didn’t happen historically, but it did occur in the fiction that was written to produce the documents designed to enslave the world to chasing demonstrably false lunar goddesses, and an equally false lunar god.

xan

jonathon

i take it you beleive in the moon god theory? I beleive that islam was influenced greatly by arab paganism but im not sure if i exactly believe in that theory

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…, why would Allah commands the people to pray to the direction where Allah is not there?? .

Holy Kaaba was built for prayer purpose , it’s the first prayer house in the world. So , Muslims face towards it as it’s a command of God . What’s the problem with it ?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

… hahah these verses were never even abrogated just lost.

hahaha , u think Muslims submitted themselves to God but believe in u ? It’s enough for us that God says in Quran He will protect it .

God made Quran easy for us to remember .So , since the beginning of the revealtion , Muslims memorised & recited those in daily prayers. It’s not possbible to change any single word of it. Why not try ? Write some verses , delete / edit / add few words .

Go to any mosque , Ask Imam if these are the correct verses or not . This test is not that hard , u can easily do it . Millioooooons Qurane Hafiz ( those who memorised the whole Quran ) are there in the world. It’s not possible for anyone to print any copy of Quran that has wrong verses …Muslims will catch the culprit immediately.