L
LDNCatholic
Guest
Yep. Whether or not they intentionally worship the Devil, the choice of name is pretty much a statement that they are against Christianity, and therefore Christ.
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B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Rebellious, yes. Evil, no. It’s not good to call Satanism evil when Christianity has done worse. Burning at the stake/book burnings/bombing abortion clinics = not cool. Theistic Satanism is, of course, guilty of church burnings as well… mostly in Norwey, though. :sad_yes:
O
OneTrueCathApos
Guest
YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS WITH THIS RESPONSE!
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
I am very serious. Why would you underestimate my response? :ehh:YOU CAN’T BE SERIOUS WITH THIS RESPONSE!
Well, I guess it’s just the result of learning, really. :compcoff:
V
Veritas248
Guest
Blaming Christianity for the actions of individual Christians, eh?:dts: Sorry, I don’t buy it. Individual Christian behavior is no more reflective of Christianity than sick people are of a hospital. Satanism, in way of teachings, cuts its own throat right there.
BTW, What do you make of the nine satanic statements? I don’t think I’ve ever heard worse advice.
BTW, What do you make of the nine satanic statements? I don’t think I’ve ever heard worse advice.
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Some of the Satanic Statements made some sense. I definitely agree with responsibility, man as the most vicious animal, undefiled wisdom, and vital existence… I’ll admit I have Satanic sympathies as much as I have Catholic influences… and I found the final statement very true
] Thank you for asking. 
O
OneTrueCathApos
Guest
You are an embarrassment to the Catholic church and to Jesus Christ. Say this prayer after me:Some of the Satanic Statements made some sense. I definitely agree with responsibility, man as the most vicious animal, undefiled wisdom, and vital existence… I’ll admit I have Satanic sympathies as much as I have Catholic influences… and I found the final statement very true
HOLY, HOLY, HOLY, LORD,
GOD OF POWER, GOD OF MIGHT.
HEAVEN AND EARTH ARE FULL OF YOUR GLORY.
HOSANNAH IN THE HIGHEST.
BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD,
HOSANNAH IN THE HIGHEST.
B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
:ehh: Let’s not go crazy… you know what? I take that back.
But, trust me, there’s worse out there that have proven to be embarrassments. :sad_yes: I still can’t get over those book burnings. :nope:
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Veritas248
Guest
We all sin, every one of us. It’s just proof that humanity needs help. You aren’t judging religions by the actions of their members, are you? Its the teachings that matter, not the state of the members.
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
I guess you’re right. It could be worse. Imagine stoning.
[creepy]
M
Madaglan
Guest
Odd I’ve never seen Satanic Charities in the news.
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Veritas248
Guest
Stoning? No, that’s lethal injection to some of the punishments inflicted over history.I guess you’re right. It could be worse. Imagine stoning.
The Norse and the blood eagle? The Assyrians and flaying alive? The Persians and scaphism? The Romans and crucifixion? Vlad the Impaler and impalement? Trust me, humans are capable of far worse things than stoning.
J
jen_fla
Guest
actually it is debatable whether anton lavey actually believed in satan or not.I already said before: I love religion.
Satanism is heavily stereotyped, and when I’m confused or uneducated about something, I don’t stay away from it and label it “evil”, I learn more about it for a better understanding. The conclusion? Only Satanic dabbling is something you have to worry about… and maybe Theistic, because that’s Christianity’s enemy, right there. :yup:
you might enjoy this read:
geocities.com/satanicreds/lavey-devil.html
and to be honest i really don’t care. from some of his writings he struck me as a very immature person that was rejected so he had to start his own club with his own rules. shock value… perhaps his parents didn’t love him enough so he had the need to try and blow peoples minds! (say that in the voice of otto from the simpsons)
at any rate, if he convinced one person that God and the angels do not exist, then he is working in alliance with demons whether he was aware of it or not.
and if you think you are going to find any group of people that don’t fall short from their beliefs then you will be searching your whole life in vain. we are human we all mess up. you know that saying, “show me one church where all the members are perfect and the moment you or i join that will cease to be”…
do you consider yourself an environmentalist? has there ever been ONE time where you threw something away that you could have recycled? and if so would that mean that everyone should start polluting because you went against your own beliefs on occasion?
you don’t have to answer this as it is personal, but are you just starting college? something tells me you took a course.
i hope you start a thread on the things that you disagree with regarding Catholicism. i left the Church when i was in college (i always believed in God, just sort of ignored him for awhile) pretty much because i wanted to do what i wanted to do. i justified all sorts of things, because i told myself i still believed in love and wasn’t a bad person. looking back though i was very selfish.
also, i had no idea how mind blowing the Catholic Church is. (i just said that like otto in my head)…
…you just have to get past all the things you think are so that simply are not.
peace,
jen
I
IanCorrigan
Guest
I find the original question on this thread interesting, mainly because it illustrates that Satanism is actually now a growing thing, with enough people who care about it to actually discuss what their particular path is called. That was never the case in the past, as far as I can see from history.
Medieval Satanism is mainly a thing of Christian legend, a pathology of the medieval church that had little or no expression among the people. To my knowledge there is no single example of a book or artifact of ‘devil worship’ or ‘Luciferianism’ from the middle ages. There are the transcripts of the trials, which may have a few remnants of a folk identification of ‘the devil’ with one or another of Europe’s pre-Christian Gods. However the prejudices of the monks who recorded the statements must be weighed as well. The occult tradition of the late middle ages gives occasional rites of offering to spirits angelic or demonic, but those are purely practical formulae, usually followed by prayers to the usual Christian God. In no place have we found an example of a ritual of satanic worship, or a satanic chapel, or statue, or liturgical item, from the medieval or rennaissance eras.
In the Renaissance we find a very short list of tales of people who actively perverted the Christian sacraments for personal ‘magical’ goals, so there had been a problem with church functionaries misusing their spiritual authority - that still isn’t Satanism…
This from wikipedia, but it’s not wrong:
“Additionally, the Rite of the Mass was not completely fixed, and there was a place at the end of the Offertory for the Secret prayers, when the priest could insert private prayers for various personal needs. These practices became especially prevalent in France. … the institution of the Low Mass became quite common, where priests would hire their services out to perform various Masses for the needs of their clients - such as blessing crops or cattle, achieving success in some enterprise, obtaining love, or cursing enemies (one way this latter was done was by inserting the enemy’s name in a Mass for the dead, accompanied by burying an image of the enemy). Such practices were eventually condemned by the Church, however.”
In the 19th century we start to see what we would call ‘black masses’ performed as tourist gags in france, and the romance of ‘black magic’ was culturally established. Europe had at least a couple of Luciferian magical groups in the late 19th and early 20th century, even as most occultism continued the search for the divine, as it has always done. The 19th century saw the invention of the idea of ‘left and right hand’ paths, and the creation of the famous ‘baphomet’ image by the former RCC priest Eliphas Levi, based on some remnants of templar symbolism. Levi wasn’t a Satanist - he invented the Baphomet to embellish his stories of ‘Satanic magicians’.
Many call Aliester Crowley the father of modern Satanism, but I just don’t think it’s true. Crowley remained an earnest seeker after divine truth throughout his life, though his search took him in strange directions. He did have an attitude about public orthodox Christianity, though he valued the insights of Christian mystics. He enjoyed playing with the images from John’s Apocalypse, and he made them key to his new mythic system - that was, and is, sure to bristle many Christians.
Self-identified ‘Satanism’ barely existed before Lavey. After Lavey it caught on with a few folks, and they quickly developed schisms, as new religions will do. All the categories that B&B listed simply did not exist in, say 1985. I think he missed a couple of categories, such as Daemonolatry, but never mind. Some Satanists attempt to find a pre-Christian Satanism in one or another ancient Pagan religion, but the whole effort is pretty flimsy - there just isn’t a category for the Miltonian ‘Rebel Prince’ or the ‘author of evil’ in most traditional mythologies.
So, my position is that the old Christian notion of secret conspiracies of demon-servers working against society is nonsense, and so is the Satanist notion of secret ancient cadres of brave spiritual adventurers. Satanism is mainly a modern invention, growing mainly from the imagination of the medieval church, and only secondarily (or less) a part of ‘occultism’ or ‘Paganism’ or even ‘witchcraft’. Mostly there’s so little of it that it doesn’t amount to anything but a body of writing.
Medieval Satanism is mainly a thing of Christian legend, a pathology of the medieval church that had little or no expression among the people. To my knowledge there is no single example of a book or artifact of ‘devil worship’ or ‘Luciferianism’ from the middle ages. There are the transcripts of the trials, which may have a few remnants of a folk identification of ‘the devil’ with one or another of Europe’s pre-Christian Gods. However the prejudices of the monks who recorded the statements must be weighed as well. The occult tradition of the late middle ages gives occasional rites of offering to spirits angelic or demonic, but those are purely practical formulae, usually followed by prayers to the usual Christian God. In no place have we found an example of a ritual of satanic worship, or a satanic chapel, or statue, or liturgical item, from the medieval or rennaissance eras.
In the Renaissance we find a very short list of tales of people who actively perverted the Christian sacraments for personal ‘magical’ goals, so there had been a problem with church functionaries misusing their spiritual authority - that still isn’t Satanism…
This from wikipedia, but it’s not wrong:
“Additionally, the Rite of the Mass was not completely fixed, and there was a place at the end of the Offertory for the Secret prayers, when the priest could insert private prayers for various personal needs. These practices became especially prevalent in France. … the institution of the Low Mass became quite common, where priests would hire their services out to perform various Masses for the needs of their clients - such as blessing crops or cattle, achieving success in some enterprise, obtaining love, or cursing enemies (one way this latter was done was by inserting the enemy’s name in a Mass for the dead, accompanied by burying an image of the enemy). Such practices were eventually condemned by the Church, however.”
In the 19th century we start to see what we would call ‘black masses’ performed as tourist gags in france, and the romance of ‘black magic’ was culturally established. Europe had at least a couple of Luciferian magical groups in the late 19th and early 20th century, even as most occultism continued the search for the divine, as it has always done. The 19th century saw the invention of the idea of ‘left and right hand’ paths, and the creation of the famous ‘baphomet’ image by the former RCC priest Eliphas Levi, based on some remnants of templar symbolism. Levi wasn’t a Satanist - he invented the Baphomet to embellish his stories of ‘Satanic magicians’.
Many call Aliester Crowley the father of modern Satanism, but I just don’t think it’s true. Crowley remained an earnest seeker after divine truth throughout his life, though his search took him in strange directions. He did have an attitude about public orthodox Christianity, though he valued the insights of Christian mystics. He enjoyed playing with the images from John’s Apocalypse, and he made them key to his new mythic system - that was, and is, sure to bristle many Christians.
Self-identified ‘Satanism’ barely existed before Lavey. After Lavey it caught on with a few folks, and they quickly developed schisms, as new religions will do. All the categories that B&B listed simply did not exist in, say 1985. I think he missed a couple of categories, such as Daemonolatry, but never mind. Some Satanists attempt to find a pre-Christian Satanism in one or another ancient Pagan religion, but the whole effort is pretty flimsy - there just isn’t a category for the Miltonian ‘Rebel Prince’ or the ‘author of evil’ in most traditional mythologies.
So, my position is that the old Christian notion of secret conspiracies of demon-servers working against society is nonsense, and so is the Satanist notion of secret ancient cadres of brave spiritual adventurers. Satanism is mainly a modern invention, growing mainly from the imagination of the medieval church, and only secondarily (or less) a part of ‘occultism’ or ‘Paganism’ or even ‘witchcraft’. Mostly there’s so little of it that it doesn’t amount to anything but a body of writing.
J
jblake
Guest
Madaglan;:
They do their work without issuing press releases. The individuals who are on the front lines, doing whatever it is that the organisation does, try not to get sidetracked into who or why they are doing what they do. They just want the task that they have set themselves to get done.
a) I’m aware of one homeless shelter that nobody outside of the board of directors, and the group that provided the majority of its volunteer help, realised had any connections with a so-called satanic organisation. The people who it took in, knew that they did not get an earbanging with a cot and a meal, but neither knew, nor, for the most part, cared why that was so. It folded due to a lack of funds.
b) In the case of the job training centre, it was taken over by another organisation — one that had more volunteers, and money;
c) The organisations tend to help those of the same, or similar theological beliefs. As such, their existence outside of those belief systems is not publicised.
d) Satanic, wiccan, pagan, and neo-pagan groups are small. As such, they have limited resources in terms of volunteers, and cash. One effect of that, is that funding, and running a charitable organisation, other than their coven/lodge/whatever can put a major strain on them. (Whilst there are no reliable sources of statistical data for satanic, wiccan, pagan, and neo-pagan groups, anecdotal evidence suggests that the median size of such groups is several orders of magnitude below that of the 75 individuals, or the mean size of 186 for all religious organisations in the united states.)
jonathon
Face it, a story “Satanists murder teenage girl in a black mass”, even when demonstrably false, is going to get more news coverage than “Satanists provide fifty homeless Christian families with a new place to live”, or “Satanists set up new job training centre for inner city youth.”;
They do their work without issuing press releases. The individuals who are on the front lines, doing whatever it is that the organisation does, try not to get sidetracked into who or why they are doing what they do. They just want the task that they have set themselves to get done.
a) I’m aware of one homeless shelter that nobody outside of the board of directors, and the group that provided the majority of its volunteer help, realised had any connections with a so-called satanic organisation. The people who it took in, knew that they did not get an earbanging with a cot and a meal, but neither knew, nor, for the most part, cared why that was so. It folded due to a lack of funds.
b) In the case of the job training centre, it was taken over by another organisation — one that had more volunteers, and money;
c) The organisations tend to help those of the same, or similar theological beliefs. As such, their existence outside of those belief systems is not publicised.
d) Satanic, wiccan, pagan, and neo-pagan groups are small. As such, they have limited resources in terms of volunteers, and cash. One effect of that, is that funding, and running a charitable organisation, other than their coven/lodge/whatever can put a major strain on them. (Whilst there are no reliable sources of statistical data for satanic, wiccan, pagan, and neo-pagan groups, anecdotal evidence suggests that the median size of such groups is several orders of magnitude below that of the 75 individuals, or the mean size of 186 for all religious organisations in the united states.)
jonathon
B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Very intriguing response.
Thank you for replying.I’m a girl, by the way.
And to answer the question of another poster, I am currently a high school senior. :yup:
B
Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Theistic Satanism: Worship of the Christian Devil
LaVeyan Satanism: Worship of one’s own life and the lives of others
Luciferianism: Worship of intelligence and wisdom
Modern Satanism (aka Symbolic Satanism): Agreement and practice of LaVeyan philosophies and customs… usually without the magic. (In a sense, you could say it’s hardcore Atheism/Anti-theism to the utmost extreme!)
Temple of Set: Worship of philosophy and personal improvement (name derived from the Egyptian god, Set). This branch came from LaVeyan Satanism.
Satanic Dabbling: … think of them as non-denomenational. There are several types, and yet none are the “real thing.”
Poster’s Note
Thanks for participating in this thread. Once again, I’m sorry if I offended, intimidated, and/or frightened. I was simply curious, and, for the most part, I was very satisfied with the replies I received from all of you. I’ll keep the thread up, for the sake of answering questions. :yup:
Eternally Yours, Blade and Blood
LaVeyan Satanism: Worship of one’s own life and the lives of others
Luciferianism: Worship of intelligence and wisdom
Modern Satanism (aka Symbolic Satanism): Agreement and practice of LaVeyan philosophies and customs… usually without the magic. (In a sense, you could say it’s hardcore Atheism/Anti-theism to the utmost extreme!
)Temple of Set: Worship of philosophy and personal improvement (name derived from the Egyptian god, Set). This branch came from LaVeyan Satanism.
Satanic Dabbling: … think of them as non-denomenational. There are several types, and yet none are the “real thing.”
Poster’s Note
Thanks for participating in this thread. Once again, I’m sorry if I offended, intimidated, and/or frightened. I was simply curious, and, for the most part, I was very satisfied with the replies I received from all of you.
I’ll keep the thread up, for the sake of answering questions. :yup:Eternally Yours, Blade and Blood
C
CGDouglas
Guest
And of course being stabbed 666 times and then eaten…
A SATAN worshipper butchered his Russian bride and her gran in a sickening ritual, police revealed last night.
Both stories are old, but are rather disturbing…
God Bless.
Chris.
V
Veritas248
Guest
Yup. FAR worse things than stoning.:sad_yes:
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Blade_and_Blood
Guest
Ah, the Satanic Dabblers. They’re usually the main problems.
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