Saudis to lash 75-year-old woman for mingling

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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… i don’t even know where to begin on how disturbing that comment is.

May be , u forgot that kaab regularly visited enemines of Muslims , provoked them to attacked Muslims . He was not only guilty of writing nasty poems ( and remember peotry was considered as a powerful weapon at that time ) , he wanted the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Detailed discussion will be off topic here .

Anyway , What’s the update of the lashing case ? Normally media don’t miss any negative news about Islam . I listened to Sky & CNN . They did not mention it in the headlines , strange .

 

[Auriel]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

May be , u forgot that kaab regularly visited enemines of Muslims , provoked them to attacked Muslims . He was not only guilty of writing nasty poems ( and remember peotry was considered as a powerful weapon at that time ) , he wanted the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Detailed discussion will be off topic here .

**Anyway , What’s the update of the lashing case ? Normally media don’t miss any negative news about Islam . I listened to Sky & CNN . They did not mention it in the headlines , strange **.

I do not expect much to come out of Saudi Arabia. I am reading other Arab links and the Arab reporters have tried to get officals to speak to them but all have been denied.

Khamisa Sawadi’s attorney has only said that she has not yet served her sentence. And he is appealing on her behalf.

That means it still has yet to be heard in court.

One problem too is that Saudis look down on Syrians. Up until about 5 years ago she would not have been eligible for Citizenship. They finally enacted a reform that widows of Saudi men could apply. I bet she did not. Marriages between a Saudi and a non Saudi are greatly discouraged. As a widow she is at the mercy of others. Inheritance laws and citizenship laws are deplorable. I looked them up. Though shockingly they may soon allow women to drive.

I mentioned earlier that the King had fired a few conservatives. What I did not know is that her conviction came a few weeks after King Abdullah fired the chief of the religious police and a cleric who condoned killing owners of TV networks that broadcast “immoral content.”

There is a shake up and I believe the religious police will crack down harder.

I found Muslim Asian news sources that mentioned it has been said that the Nephews father had a personal vendetta against her. And it was the 3rd time she had been arrested for “bread”. Always bread.

As a Syrian, a non Citizen (not 100% positive), and a women, her word had little value in court.

This probably will blow up in their faces. Quite a few women activists have been threatened and jailed. They are also pressuring the King to lift restrictions on Divorced and widowed women. Women are always treated as adult minors. They cant even receive medical treatment without the male guardians permission. No employment, no housing, etc…That leaves a huge gap to cross if a women is in Khamisa Sawadi’s situation.

One case an activist brought out as an example is a women who filed for divorce from an abusive husband, was denied, he attacked her, she went to police to file for protection, they would not allow it without her guardians permission. Knowing full well her Guardian was her husband.

The courts based their decision on the testimony of the religious police, and citizen complaints, that includes the Uncle. There was not one shred of evidence. The fact that she was Syrian was brought up several times.

The young men were convicted merely on suspicion of sinning.

Here is an article from ARAB NEWS that quotes the nephew. arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=120150&d=11&m=3&y=2009

I have more info on the lashing but have to go for now. I am worried about her, do not think she could survive it. I found links of what others are doing about it. Will post later.

 

[jen_fla]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace

If any man brings adultery charge against a woman , he must produce 4 eye witnessess. The article does not mention that anyone saw her in bed with any man. So , she is innocent until proven guilty.

And those who accuse chaste women, and produce not four witnesses, flog them with eighty stripes, and reject their testimony forever, they indeed are the Fasiqoon (liars, rebellious, disobedient to Allah).

( سورة النور , An-Noor, Chapter #24, Verse #4)

while adultery is a crime under sharia law, isn’t it also a crime to just be ALONE with men without a guardian?

so if there are 4 witnesses that see a man or men go into the house of a female is that not a crime? that is what she is being arrested for here as no one caught her in an adulterous act.

Those who revolted against God Almighty , don’t hesitate to write nasty things about God , His messenger , believing women – you must feel pity to think about their punishment in hereafter. Whatever punishment they get here is nothing if compare it with eternal fire.

so again you feel it is ok to kill those that speak nasty words. i get it.

 

[jen_fla]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

May be , u forgot that kaab regularly visited enemines of Muslims , provoked them to attacked Muslims . He was not only guilty of writing nasty poems ( and remember peotry was considered as a powerful weapon at that time ) , he wanted the ethnic cleansing of Muslims. Detailed discussion will be off topic here .

Anyway , What’s the update of the lashing case ? Normally media don’t miss any negative news about Islam . I listened to Sky & CNN . They did not mention it in the headlines , strange .

another classic dodge. you wrote:

Those who leave Islam & don’t do any harm to Muslims won’t get any death penalty . Those non Muslims who are not fighting against Muslims or not committing any blasphemy will also be safe .

Those who were guilty of commiting blasphemy like the poet Kaab who wrote nasty poems against God , God’s last Prophet & other innocent Muslim deserved death penatly.

taken from full comment (#786) here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4097238#post4097238

i know what you believe and it is highly disturbing. muslim woman, maybe i am trying to reach for that silver lining, but i am going to hope that your wiggling around on this topic means that deep down your conscious doesn’t buy this evil that you have been sold.

you are in my prayers. such a devoted woman to God would be most welcome in his true Church. you would be free to question the Lord, His teachings, and know what it is to have a loving relationship with Him as opposed to a fear driven, cruel one.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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… isn’t it also a crime to just be ALONE with men without a guardian?

It’s a sin but no earthy punishment is found in Quran or hadith for that.

so if there are 4 witnesses that see a man or men go into the house of a female is that not a crime?

Just for seeing men are entering in to the house , no punishment for that.

If there are 4 witnesses who saw / caught her with another man in a close / similar position that is needed if one needs to have baby , only then she is guilty of fornication. To my best of knowledge , for hug & kissing , fornication charge can not be brought against a woman.

 

[Sam_777]

hoping to elicit some opinion on the religious police (since obviously other places, even in the Islamic world, do not have such official institutions),

Actually the religious police (aka the Promotion of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice) (Arabic: هيئه الأمر بالمعروف و النهي عن المنكر) has a verse in Quran, and from that verse the Saudi authority had established that institution, and currently Yemen is going to establish one also.

(Quran 3:104):
“Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: they are the ones to attain felicity.”

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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“Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: they are the ones to attain felicity.”

But how this verse is applicable for lashing when there are no 4 eye witnesses ?

Sam , please explain more about Saudi laws. What’s the rules for widows in KSA ? If she needs to visit any doctor or go for shopping , must she ask any Mahrim to go with her ? If she is a foreigner & does not have any Mahrim in KSA , then what she can do ?

 

[Sam_777]

Why some Muslim members still asking me after calling me “a munafiq, a liar, a traitor, a hypocrite, the one who spreading lies & hatred, and the fool in the matters both of Shari’ah and Saudi Law” !!!
L1, L2, L3.

 

[Auriel]

I feel bad for them. here is an article from the Saudi gazette about how widows are treated.

saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2009020528469

I also did not think about how many ways an inheritance is spilt among a man who had up to 4 wives.

Muslim Woman, I was curious is the elderly woman would have been eligible for welfare if she were a Saudi citizen. But she still would not have qualified. The Ministry of Social Affairs provides welfare to single Saudi women if they are without property on the condition that they have at least 2 minor children. It is not that much either and barely covers rent.

As soon as a woman’s oldest child turns 18 she no longer qualifies. The problem is women cannot be hired in the public sector so they are left destitute without a relatives help. Also…if she has more than two children, but the oldest who turns 18 is a male, the mother becomes the sons dependent and she no longer qualifies as a single woman head of household.

The poor Syrian widow who may get a lashing really was at the mercy of those around here.

I hope there is a labor law reform for their sake, at least they will not be made to feel like beggars.
Quote from that article:

Haifa’a Khalid, a Saudi journalist who started her own website “Saudi Divorce Initiative” in March to discuss the plight of Saudi divorced and widowed women, said several women had approached Dr. Ghazi Al-Gossaibi, Minister of Labor, pointing out to him the plight of divorced and widowed women. “The minister was requested to support divorced and widowed women by giving them employment in the private sector,” said Khalid.

 

[Eggnotz]

I would hope that we all could stipulate that beating a 75-year-old-woman for any reason is wrong.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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…
The poor Syrian widow who may get a lashing really was at the mercy of those around here.

She did not get share in late husband’s property ? She has no relative in Syria also who can take care of her ?? Oh God . What’s wrong with all her family members ? If she is so helpless , it’s a must for her all relatives to help her financially , at least give her Zakat.

Anyway , thanks for all the info.

 

[Auriel]

I would hope that we all could stipulate that beating a 75-year-old-woman for any reason is wrong.

I agree. I mean is she really was evil and lets say a killer then she deserves to be put behind bars,

It pains me to even think of a 75 year old widow whose only crime is she was a hungry and a nephew showed her charity and brought her food, charity, as their religion teaches, being dragged out on a Thursday in front of a prison or in a market place and publicly humiliated, wearing only thin clothing and possibly having her back side exposed.

According to Amnesty International that does happen at times there to increase the shame. I kind of doubt they will expose her though, Saudi citizens are angry enough over this as it is.

But don’t worry, they will have a doctor standing by,. Reports show that sometimes a woman skin breaks and the pain may become so unbearable that she may bleed and faint after just 3 or 4 lashes. If that happens they will be merciful and let her heal…and then beat her again.

Thank God she was not a gay man. Two were sentenced to 7 thousand lashes. I am not sure what they did but man, 7, 000?

Judges do not give the lashings like in other countries. They have special lashers who bring along extra 7 ft bamboo canes in case one breaks.

I have pics of one but have to give it modesty stripes before I link, if I link.

 

[rtconstant]

I feel bad for them. here is an article from the Saudi gazette about how widows are treated.

I also did not think about how many ways an inheritance is spilt among a man who had up to 4 wives.

Muslim Woman, I was curious is the elderly woman would have been eligible for welfare if she were a Saudi citizen. But she still would not have qualified. The Ministry of Social Affairs provides welfare to single Saudi women if they are without property on the condition that they have at least 2 minor children. It is not that much either and barely covers rent.

As soon as a woman’s oldest child turns 18 she no longer qualifies. The problem is women cannot be hired in the public sector so they are left destitute without a relatives help. Also…if she has more than two children, but the oldest who turns 18 is a male, the mother becomes the sons dependent and she no longer qualifies as a single woman head of household.

The poor Syrian widow who may get a lashing really was at the mercy of those around here.

I hope there is a labor law reform for their sake, at least they will not be made to feel like beggars.
Quote from that article:

These are consequences of trying legislate behavior. I understand why they do it though. As our Muslim posters have stated the quran has turned a near occasion into an actual sin. Obviously anyone who woud want create religeous legal system based on the quran would want to give punishment for any sin. This is mistake that Muhammed and/or Uthmaan made. As warlords they had a vested interest in protecting face and legitimacy. The problem is that those are social constructs not actual morality. So now Muslims are obsessed with reputation and legitimacy even though these concepts really have no bearing on someone who isn’t of noble birth. It is this undue focus on appearance that creates an environment in which old women are beaten for getting food, widows are forced into prostitution, and daughters are mudered for family honor.

 

[Auriel]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

She did not get share in late husband’s property ? She has no relative in Syria also who can take care of her ?? Oh God . What’s wrong with all her family members ? If she is so helpless , it’s a must for her all relatives to help her financially , at least give her Zakat.

Anyway , thanks for all the info.

Your welcome. I found it so interesting because I work in the legal field here, and the laws are very different. And I am really concerned about women like her. I lost my mother at a young age, I can’t imagine anyone doing that to another mother. People think there is nothing we can do but the outcry from the world, especially the West did end the young rape victims lashing and prison sentence that made news, so you never know.

I was asking myself the same questions, does she have any living family, are they stable and in a position to help her, and if so…where are they?

You know, one thing that the Major religions do have in common is they teach us to respect and take care of the elderly. I took care of my grandmother when no one else would, because she was my family and helped take care of me when I was little. I did not even think twice about it or have to be asked. Even if a person has no religious beliefs it just morally seems the right thing to do.

Prayers for the mother.

 

[Auriel]

These are consequences of trying legislate behavior. I understand why they do it though. As our Muslim posters have stated the quran has turned a near occasion into an actual sin. Obviously anyone who woud want create religeous legal system based on the quran would want to give punishment for any sin. This is mistake that Muhammed and/or Uthmaan made. As warlords they had a vested interest in protecting face and legitimacy. The problem is that those are social constructs not actual morality. So now Muslims are obsessed with reputation and legitimacy even though these concepts really have no bearing on someone who isn’t of noble birth. It is this undue focus on appearance that creates an environment in which old women are beaten for getting food, widows are forced into prostitution, and daughters are mudered for family honor.

Yes, and one thing it did do was united the tribes. You have such a mixed bag over there. I am not of Middle Eastern Descent but I have Turkish Christian and Muslim relatives and grew up around different groups of people from the Mideast. Just among the different groups there are prejudices.

Turkey and Egypt are secular states, so do not run into the same problems. Well, not as often I should say. Talking to my Turkish relatives you would think Turkey was the cradle of civilization. And they let you know real fast they are not Arabs.

You brought up a point,

So now Muslims are obsessed with reputation and legitimacy even though these concepts really have no bearing on someone who isn’t of noble birth.

See, to quite a few Saudi’s they are of Noble blood and consider themselves the only PURE Arabs. Not all of course, but many actually do believe that. You will find a huge disproportion of Saudi to non-Saudi’s arrested, punished, in prison, and among those executed. But according to the belief system they are not to discriminate against another Muslim. Yet they judge them more harshly than their own citizens.

No one is policing the religious police. They seem to be manipulating, and interpreting their own law to suit them. I think this is why Saudi citizens seem unusually vocal about this case, even the men.

That the King fired the head of the religious police may seem trivial to us, but over that it made a HUGE statement, it is not the norm for them to interfere. I imagine there will be a backlash and they are cracking down harder.

 

[chrisse]

I feel bad for them. here is an article from the Saudi gazette about how widows are treated.

I also did not think about how many ways an inheritance is spilt among a man who had up to 4 wives.

Muslim Woman, I was curious is the elderly woman would have been eligible for welfare if she were a Saudi citizen. But she still would not have qualified. The Ministry of Social Affairs provides welfare to single Saudi women if they are without property on the condition that they have at least 2 minor children. It is not that much either and barely covers rent.

As soon as a woman’s oldest child turns 18 she no longer qualifies. The problem is women cannot be hired in the public sector so they are left destitute without a relatives help. Also…if she has more than two children, but the oldest who turns 18 is a male, the mother becomes the sons dependent and she no longer qualifies as a single woman head of household.

The poor Syrian widow who may get a lashing really was at the mercy of those around here.

I hope there is a labor law reform for their sake, at least they will not be made to feel like beggars.
Quote from that article:

I’ll leave this quote as the perfect example of Islam’s / allah’s / mohammed’s social welfare system for women :

My advice to my brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia is that they should hold on firmly to the teachings of Islam. Remember how Rasoolullah sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam and his Sahabah worked for the upliftment of widows and single women in their society.

Allaah has allowed a man to marry upto 4 women. Sisters, have trust in Allaah and aid your Muslim sisters. Encourage your husband to take on additional responsibility. O Fathers and brothers, fear Allaah.

Of course, if no one will take on a woman as an extra “wife” (I consider islamic marriage nothing more than a bordello so I’m being nice here), the woman is simply left destitute and subject to abuse without recourse. Her evidence in court against a muslim man is without worth.

Islam’s horrid qur’an and the traditions and sayings of mohammet MAY have been okay in the 7th Century for a band of slaughterers, rapists, enslavers and theives in what was even for the 7th Century backward arabia, it has no place in the 21st Century.

 

[jakasaki]

Quote:
My advice to my brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia is that they should hold on firmly to the teachings of Islam. Remember how Rasoolullah sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam and his Sahabah worked for the upliftment of widows and single women in their society.

Allaah has allowed a man to marry upto 4 women. Sisters, have trust in Allaah and aid your Muslim sisters. Encourage your husband to take on additional responsibility. **O Fathers and brothers, fear Allaah. **

Why is it that islam must always “fear allah”…??? Everything is fear allah…

I do not fear God, I love God and God loves me. God does not place any fear on me…nor do I fear Him…

 

[dzheremi]

Not to call your relationship to God into question, Jakasaki, but I would like to submit to you that if you think that you do not fear God maybe you ought to attach some new meanings to the word “fear” that are not currently there for you. I most definitely fear God, and I approach Him with much fear and trembling, as has been instilled in me as a right way to approach Him. There are lots of ways and reasons to show a proper fear of God. That Muslims focus on that to the exclusion of any other dimension of their relationship to Him (which I am not sure that they do, but I don’t know) is a serious failing of their own theology, and ought not to be a reason for a Christian to not have a healthy fear of God.

 

[inJESUS]

What is shocking about Muhammad’s legalism>? wasn’t he sent as a “mercy” to humanity? better kill a 75 year old woman on this earth so that Allah *might *have mercy on her after her death…after all, she is a threat to the Saudi angelic utopia.

And go take a look at those who will flog her or the judge who gave the verdict and am sure you won’t see angelic eyes of sinless humans.

may God open their eyes, and if it is God’s will that this happens, may it be an eye opener for those who want to know the truth and use their brains to discern what’s from God and what’s from a 7th century bedouin.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

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…I lost my mother at a young age,

Very sorry to know about it.

You know, one thing that the Major religions do have in common is they teach us to respect and take care of the elderly.

In Islam , it’s a must to take care of elderly parents. We are not allowed to even utter Uh to them . When other relatives are old , helpless , family members must help them . I guess , she does not any children but what about other family members ? Judge should have punished those for not taking care of her.

Can u tell me more about Saudi laws ? If the nephew -in-law brought any female members with him like sister , wife , then it was ok under local law ?

I took care of my grandmother when no one else would, because she was my family

may God bless you. I wish , we all can do these things .

If possible , keep us updated about the verdict . Thanks.