Saved by faith or by work?

[MariaG]

Writer,

I agree with you. I even read threads before this one on this topic. I read the arguments of the two (or more) people and sometimes they are saying same thing. Minor differences in my opinion, different theology in theirs. I believe part of the reason is Protestants have had to prove their take on the Bible is correct. to do that a theology has developed that uses words to that effect.

Did you know that I never knew the Bible did NOT say anywhere that we are saved by faith ALONE. In all the protestant denominations I went to, that was taught as truth. The faulty translation of Luther that he made to prove his theology is still taught as if it were a valid Bible scripture. When we studied James with the faith with out works, it was almost identical to the Catholic teaching, but the Faith Alone is what was emphasized in my Bible studies. Sad huh?

God Bless

 

[BLB_Oregon]

I’m not a scripture scholar, but it would seem to me that the passage you cited says that you are saved by God. It isn’t what you do, either in your mind, or your heart, or with your hands. Everything, from your trust in God to your service, is His gracious gift TO YOU. As for which on the list is more important, it is hard to see how they can be separated. When God calls, the correct answer is “Yes”… get ready to hand all of yourself over.

 

[RedGolum]

funkyhorn:

There are two different kinds of faith. One being a mere intellectual belief or knowledge of something (which is what the demons in hell have), and the other being the kind of faith that brings about positive action (faith working through love).

If you say that we are saved by faith alone meaning mere intellectual knowledge, then the RCC condemns this belief. If, however, when you say that by faith alone we are saved, you mean faith working through love (faith that brings about good works), then the RCC affirms this.

.

This is why so many of the Lutheran churches could sign the JDF. Part of the problem is that the traditional Lutheran language on justification and sanctification is different from the traditional RC language that people get tripped up in semantics. Faith without works is dead, but the works don’t contribute to your salvation.

In other words if you say you have faith, but still willfully go out and sin like the rest of the word, then you need to take a hard look at yourself and see just what kind of “faith” you have.

 

[Shiann]

sashby:

Quote by Charles: "Faith is from us. It is an act of obedience/contrition that we make freely to God. "

Sorry Charles , I disagree. Faith, Hope and Love are Theological Virtues. These virtues are given to us by God’s grace. Our intellectual belief is just that, belief. It is the beginning of our journey into Faith. Or I should say the beginning of Faith being infused into us. We grow in theological virtue by God’s grace alone.

I tend to agree with this. Faith is a Theological virtue and would come to us as a grace from God.

We open our hearts and minds, ask for God to grace us with the gift of these virtues. Then we apply these directly to the Cardinal virtues that we practice (prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice). We are graced with the Theological virtues in order to better execute the Cardinal virtues.

The more we humble ourselves and become a tool of God the more graces us with Faith, Hope, and Love. The ‘more’ of these virtues we have, the better able we are able to do righteous works via prudence, fortitude, temperance, and justice.

Free will request by us to God for his intervention in our life => Gift of Graces by God (Faith is one) =>
Graces help us become strong in the cardinal virtues to better execute God’s righteous plan through us.

 

[Shibboleth]

RedGolum:

In other words if you say you have faith, but still willfully go out and sin like the rest of the word, then you need to take a hard look at yourself and see just what kind of “faith” you have.

Lutheran’s agree with this statement.

One can do good works without good faith but one cannot fail to do good works when in good faith. Many agnostics do good things but that does not mean that they have faith. Of course nothing that we do on our own can please God.

Both Lutheran and Catholic individuals as far as I know believe that by God’s grace alone we are saved. By God’s grace we are given the gifts of faith and works and they are not due to any merits on our part.

Lutheran’s believe that one can in effect loose their salvation by rejecting God’s Grace but our not rejecting God’s grace does not ensure our salvation. Now I may misunderstand because I have only witnessed it in movies but it seems to me that the Catholic faith holds that if one sins they must do some sort of work to atone for those sins, usually through confession. Am I right on this? Why the need to say 5 prayers and do an act of contrition. These are good things but are they necessary?

I agree that if one is not bearing good fruit than they must have at some point rejected God’s grace but I do not think that one’s acts make up for that fact. A person need not touch the robes of Jesus to heal their servant.

I think that most of the problem comes with our differences on purgatory and I think that sometimes Protestants do not understand that once one is in purgatory that their salvation has already been decided. From a Catholic point of view…

 

[MariaG]

Some Catholics don’t understand purgatory either.Some, unfortunately, think you can die with unrepented sin like murder and go to purgatory to fix it. That is simply not true.

 

[Stylteralmaldo]

funkyhorn:

…The RCC doesn’t teach that we are saved by our works at all. In fact, it is the Catholic Church’s infallible teaching that we CAN’T do anything of our own human nature that pleases God. It is only by God’s grace that we are able to do anything meritorious…

This is the most difficult point I have in trying to explain my faith to non-Catholics.