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AshleyBelle
Guest
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Jesus founded His church on earth in the new testament, and gave us the Holy Spirit at pentecost, yes.
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CWBetts
Guest
Before anyone else says anything else derogatory about the Catholic faith, open your Bible to 1 Tim 3:15. Please explain this verse in light of your mistaken theology that considers the Bible to be the source of Truth. I’ll be waiting.
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firmfoundation
Guest
That is so true. And here is something important to remember–When Jesus said that, all He had was the Hebrew Scriptures. They prophesied about him in both obvious and hidden ways.
When the New Testament writers wrote to other Christians, they were explaining what Jesus was all about. Those letters were ‘Scripture’ long before the Catholic Church decided to say so, and people’s lives were being changed all over the place because of born again people telling their story and explaing what Jesus’ death was all about.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
If underdog is a Catholic as you said he is why does he not know when the Cathloic church was stsrted
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underdog
Guest
I’m sorry, I’m catholic with a small c. Please help me understand when the Roman Catholic Church started. i believe that the Old Testament Churcn and the New Testament Church consists of one body.
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underdog
Guest
Our Triune God is the source of all truth. The question is how does God reveals Himself to us. Do you want to know what God is like. We look to His Son and we will know what God is like.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
What is Cathloic with a small c
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underdog
Guest
The universal body of Christ!
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CWBetts
Guest
The Church is the pillar of all truth. That is what the Scriptures say. So what you really mean is you only believe the parts of the Bible you want to.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
OK smile
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Rightlydivide
Guest
Well first of all the first list was made by the Orthodox Church when Athanasius made his list
bible-researcher.com/athanasius.html
Second of all, the Damasus list never happened until many years later:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Rome
This is something that you should not perpetuate because it never happened
mountainman.com.au/essenes/Decretum%20Gelasianum.htm
You are not saved by possessing a Bible. What gave you that idea ?
Is there such thing as a “unsaved” Christian?
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elvisman
Guest
NOPE.
What you fail to understand is that Jesus identifies his very self with the Catholic Church that he built.
Acts 9:3-5 explicitly states:
***On his journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. ***
**He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" **
He said, “Who are you, sir?” The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting."
Saul was persecuting the Church, so here is a question for you, underdog:
Why would Jesus tell Saul that he was persecuting him (Jesus)?
Answer:
Jesus and his Church CANNOT be separated.
**That’s the one thing you and the rest of the anti-Catholics will never understand. **
The FULLNESS of truth is found in HIS Church because HE guaranteed it.
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EVANGELION
Guest
The Eastern Orthodox churches did not exist as a separate entity from the Catholic Church until after 1054 A.D., so claiming it was made by the Orthodox churches doesn’t hold water. And, by the way, there were other lists before St. Athanasius.
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firmfoundation
Guest
That’s not very difficult. Here is the verse: “…but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.”
Paul was writing a letter to Timothy, which was the very word of God, and he told Timothy the reason he was writing it was so Timothy would know what God expects of a Christian in the Church. So it is Scripture that is our source for knowing God’s will. And then he says that the church (literally, “the called-out ones”) of the living God is the pillar and support of the truth. The Church is a habitation that God lives in. It is a structure made up of all believers through the ages–all truly saved people. Jesus is the foundation. In Ephesians Paul says it is “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone” Here Paul says the church is a pillar of that foundation. In this world, it is the Church (as defined above) that upholds the truth. We believe it, proclaim it, wrote it, live it. but the truth itself is in the Scriptures, which of course center in Jesus. So that’s a great verse all Christians embrace.
At first I thought you were talking about II Timothy 3:15. Here it is–“and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.”
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Rightlydivide
Guest
I think you will find a distinction between east and west prior to 1054 and as such I stick by my statement and recognize the Orthodox Church as the ones who compiled the first list of 27 books.
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EVANGELION
Guest
There were distinctions in practices and disciplines, but the East and West were still unified. Saying the “Orthodox Church” (even though there are several Orthodox churches) came up with the first canon list is achronistic. And besides, like I said, there were other canon lists previous to St. Athanasius’.
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firmfoundation
Guest
Which being interpreted means all Christians had the Old Testament and the writings that would become the New Test. and they had the apostles, prophets, evangelists and pastors and teachers to lead and guide them. “He gave some to be apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, shepherds and teachers; for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.”–Ephesians 4 (Do you like that passage?) And all those believers everywhere with all those leaders shared Jesus with their world and people were getting saved like crazy and the loved each other and celebrated with the Lord’s Supper and Baptism. Then as time went on, some people got cold, became more interested in perpetuating systems and power, and so in some places ‘church’ is more like a funeral home than it is an alive place of ministry and praise and people finding Jesus.
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CWBetts
Guest
The Church is the pillar…not the scriptures. Typical danceing around what the Scriptures say, to try to make them say what you want them to say.
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Rightlydivide
Guest
Okay. Englighten me. The first list containing all of the 27 NT books is…
Unless you are talking about some other lists not containing the 27…
in which case you are insulting my intelligence. Obviously anyone who can reference Athanasisus and post on the Damasine List would understand the development of the canon.
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EVANGELION
Guest
Oh, I’m sorry, I overlooked where you were saying 27 books. There is evidence that Origen accepted the same 27 books, but this isn’t an official canon list by him.
My apologies, I overlooked the 27 books reference.
Why are you getting upset, I wasn’t trying to insult intelligence. Apologies.Yes, but I don’t take sides. I’m not taking any of the various Protestant sides, nor Catholic nor Orthodox sides. I just like history.
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