Saving first kiss question

[Prodigal_Son]

I don’t know what these “other forms of physical affection” are, but it sounds like you are sending him mixed messages. I’d probably be confused too- why is a kiss so special if you already do “things a couple does after kissing”? No need to go into more detail about what those things are, but think to yourself how logical you are being (or not, as the case may be). There is typically a progression to things, most of which ideally happens after marriage. Kissing can be chaste, but there isn’t a lot beyond a kiss that is.

As a man who didn’t kiss his wife until the altar, I couldn’t disagree more. My fiancee put her head on my chest to rest, and vice versa, and this was more intimate than a kiss. I kissed her neck. I held her from behind, around her waist. Innumerable other things, all of them chaste (though not always helpful). In fact, I think her vow not to kiss helped us be creative, in some ways, and was fun.

So don’t assume that “things beyond kissing” are automatically inappropriate.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I am a guy, 25 and faithful Catholic. I think what you are doing is sweet.

The fact that they guy you are seeing is not impressed is a bad sign. You will not enjoy kissing him, because his motives are not pure.

And how exactly can you tell THAT from her post?

 

[Lorelei12]

As a man who didn’t kiss his wife until the altar, I couldn’t disagree more. My fiancee put her head on my chest to rest, and vice versa, and this was more intimate than a kiss. I kissed her neck. I held her from behind, around her waist. Innumerable other things, all of them chaste (though not always helpful). In fact, I think her vow not to kiss helped us be creative, in some ways, and was fun.

So don’t assume that “things beyond kissing” are automatically inappropriate.

I wouldn’t consider putting your head on a partner’s chest “more intimate than kissing”. Neither putting your arms around someone’s waist. Maybe that’s just me. In any case, you and your wife appear to have been on the same page. The OP and her boyfriend are not.

The OP made it sound like the “other things” are “next steps”, and said that her boyfriend wondered why they could do those things but not kiss. Whatever the nature of those “other things” is, they appear to be confusing her boyfriend enough to wonder why they’re okay. I was simply suggesting that she might want to re-evaluate the other ways in which they are intimate to be sure she isn’t being hypocritical. She shouldn’t do anything she doesn’t want to, but because whatever else they are doing is enough to make him wonder why she is so committed to no kissing- maybe she shouldn’t do those things either.

 

[matt_s0688]

It’s awesome that you’ve waited. Sometimes I wish I was brought up with that kind of faith to want to wait and I think it’s awesome that you wanted to. Now, if I may be honest, I think it defeats the point completely that you’ve done steps beyond the kissing and I think that’s why it frustrates him. I do think that your holding out on kissing is more aligned with a promise you made yourself than truly saving it in a Godly sense because of this. I’m not saying to kiss him but if you wanted it to be meaningful you can’t go beyond the kiss.

Take whatever you want from that though, this is all hypocritical of a non virgin. The thing that matters is that you’re trying to be better in this hyper sexual world we live in.

 

[Mulligan2]

It sounds like you two are having an open discussion about it. Frankly, you are entitled to stay committed to your promise and he is entitled to want to share a kiss with you. He may be thinking that he wants to show his affection to you and desire the intimacy that comes along with it. There is certainly nothing wrong with either of those things - morally, according to the Church or otherwise… And of course, there is nothing wrong with sticking to your personal commitment. Ultimately, it sounds like the two of you will have to decide which is more important to the two of you as a couple.

Honestly, I can’t picture getting married without having kissed my spouse. Physical affection is important and compatibility in that area is important.

That is my thought as well. I would question how much passion there would be after getting married if there is virtually none beforehand.

 

[thewanderer]

My goodness people are rushing to rash judgement of this man

If he wins this battle you can guarantee the next thing he will be pressuring you for is sex…

The fact that they guy you are seeing is not impressed is a bad sign. You will not enjoy kissing him, **because his motives are not pure.
**

I’m sorry people, but just because he thinks it is important to show affection via kissing before marriage does not make him a sex-crazed maniac acting only out of lustful desire. To be honest, I tend to agree with him that such displays of affection are important before marriage, and not just for determining compatibility, but for the sake of naturally developing your relationship. There is a natural progression and it doesn’t make any sense to exclude part of that out of some desire for making an extra “cute” and “sweet” moment. I know there are people that think otherwise and I can respect that that is what they want to do, but it is seriously wrong to claim that anybody who feels kissing before marriage is important is being impure, lustful, and trying to have sex. Me and my husband both agreed that such displays of affection were very important before marriage, and guess what, we both remained chaste and married as virgins. I would not for one instant take back the kisses and other signs of affection we exchanged before marriage for the sake of having an extra special moment captured on camera, it would seem fake to me, like we were trying to hard to add extra meaning to something whereas, for me, by removing it from its natural place we would have already stripped it of its natural meaning and instead injected it with some other imposed meaning. For me that would seem kind of flat. I mean, if my husband had wanted this strongly and insisted upon it I probably would have ended up waiting and I still would have been happy to be able to kiss him on our wedding, but I would not have seen it as any more special than kisses before marriage would have been.

Now, my point in going off on this spiel is not to say that it is absolutely wrong to want to wait, like I said, I get it, there are some people who view this differently than me who really want this. My point is to show that the boyfriends point of view is another legitimate point of view and should not be looked down on just because you happen to disagree with it. What the OP is faced with is a case where she and her boyfriend have opposing, but legitimate views on how their relationship should work. They both seem to realize that at least part of her reason for holding onto her view is a matter of pride, wanting to fulfill a little challenge she made for herself when she was young. I will say that if she actually likes this guy and is actually interested in him she should not allow that to influence her decision. Its kind of selfish to force what you want onto the person you love because of your own pride. However, she also legitimately wants to do this because she sees it as special. So now she and her boyfriend have to work this out.

OP the first thing I would do is try to understand exactly and entirely where your bf is coming from, why he believes it is important to kiss before marriage. Try to understand and see the reasoning behind it and understand where he is coming from, then compare it to your own reasons for wanting to wait and see which is the better action, holding onto what you want for the reasons you have, or letting go of your desire to have a special wedding moment for the sake of your boyfriend. What seems right will largely depend on how good each persons reasons are and how strongly they feel about them. I do want to make sure to caution you not to ever show or accept signs of affection that you are not comfortable with. Do not ever let anyone force you into something you are uncomfortable doing or just plain don’t want to do, ever. And, if after continued discussion about all this you decide that waiting until marriage is really important to you and, knowing that your bf tries or continues to pressure you then I would agree with some of the warnings of other posters and seriously rethink your relationship. It is important that you be with someone who will respect you and your wishes, even if they do not agree with them.

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

This is your rule. You want to do it. He has no right to say “This rule is stupid, you’re not going to do it.”, because whether he realizes it or not, there are other guys who would appreciate you so much that even if they didn’t like the idea, they wouldn’t argue with you and would just be glad that they were in a relationship with you. You’re not obligated to date him, and if he doesn’t respect your wishes on something that’s this important to you now, what evidence is there that he will respect your wishes when you’re married one day? This really raises a lot of questions about him, like why it’s so important to kiss at this exact moment (If you get married, you’ll be able to kiss until you pass out), and why he doesn’t respect something that is obviously important to you. Do not lower your ideals for this guy or any other guy. If he won’t let this go, drop him and find someone worth your time and who appreciates what you think.

 

[thewanderer]

This is your rule. You want to do it. He has no right to say “This rule is stupid, you’re not going to do it.”, because whether he realizes it or not, there are other guys who would appreciate you so much that even if they didn’t like the idea, they wouldn’t argue with you and would just be glad that they were in a relationship with you. You’re not obligated to date him, and if he doesn’t respect your wishes on something that’s this important to you now, what evidence is there that he will respect your wishes when you’re married one day? This really raises a lot of questions about him, like why it’s so important to kiss at this exact moment (If you get married, you’ll be able to kiss until you pass out), and why he doesn’t respect something that is obviously important to you. Do not lower your ideals for this guy or any other guy. If he won’t let this go, drop him and find someone worth your time and who appreciates what you think.

Except that its not clear that it is actually super important to her. If she does in fact decide that it is extremely important, so much so that it is more important than her bf’s reasons for wanting to be able to kiss her that it is worth holding onto over and above that even if it means breaking up with him and lets him know that and he still presses her, then yeah, sure, at that point it would be time to seriously take stock of the situation. But as of now with the information we have received it is very possible he’s just a guy who thinks like I do, who doesn’t see any point or value to waiting for marriage until you kiss and sees lots of value in kissing before marriage. Such a person is likely going to question why their SO wants to wait and try to show them why they think waiting doesn’t make sense. None of that makes him disrespectful or controlling, it just means the two have different opinions about this particular matter which they need to discuss with each other and work through so they can be on the same page. Again, however, as I said, there will come a point where him pressing is disrespectful and a serious cause for concern. However, given the information the OP has given us I don’t see that she is necessarily there yet and so we should not assume that she is.

 

[Mulligan2]

One other point I thought of. If they wait, their first kiss will be on their wedding day - in front of perhaps a hundred or so of their friends and family. Nothing awkward there!

 

[JoeofCupertino]

Don’t do anything you will regret. Don’t do anything that will lead to going farther than you are willing and able to do.

You are still young right now. There are countless guys out there myself included that would be flattered if a girl waited for wedding night to do anything. Its hard enough to find a Catholic that is a virgin these days much less one that has not kissed before. Its a sign of personal purity and symbol of your strength in overcoming all the odds that are stacked against you in this day and age.

If you change your mind and do decide to kiss him, do it because you want it not because he does. What happens if you kiss him and the relationship ends? You have lost your initial dream of saving your first kiss and also the boyfriend. Its bad to change yourself for a boyfriend or in the case of a guy for a girlfriend. Until you are engaged, the relationship you have is one that has no official commitment. Whoever you marry should do so because they love you not the person they built you to be.

 

[runningdude]

My goodness people are rushing to rash judgement of this man…

I’m sorry people, but just because he thinks it is important to show affection via kissing before marriage does not make him a sex-crazed maniac acting only out of lustful desire. To be honest, I tend to agree with him that such displays of affection are important before marriage, and not just for determining compatibility, but for the sake of naturally developing your relationship. There is a natural progression and it doesn’t make any sense to exclude part of that out of some desire for making an extra “cute” and “sweet” moment. …

The boyfriend is practically ridiculing her desire to stay almost perfectly pure till marriage. He has told her he would feel cheated an unimpressed if they waited until the wedding ceremony to kiss. Whiling kissing before marriage is not inherently sinful, it is neither inherently necessary.

His girlfriend has set a high standard of purity, which is a noble goal. She stands in solidarity with thousands of woman religious who made a vow of perfect of chastity. In an age where so many young people have abandoned chastity, it is startling to see it blossom. His duty as a future husband would be to encourage her, and learn from her strength, as Saint Joseph did caring for Mary.

Instead, he tries to destroy something beautiful. This is not a Christian model of love. “Aggie” deserves someone who appreciates, or at least attempts to understand her motive for saving even her first kiss for her husband.

 

[runningdude]

Your boyfriend should respect your wishes. He went into the relationship knowing this, he shouldn’t be trying to change it now. …

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Instead, he tries to destroy something beautiful. This is not a Christian model of love. “Aggie” deserves someone who appreciates, or at least attempts to understand her motive for saving even her first kiss for her husband.

Dude, she admits that she doesn’t even have a clear motive, except to follow through on her childhood decision. The motives you ascribe to her are not the ones she described for herself.

Lay off the boyfriend.

 

[Rau]

Dude, she admits that she doesn’t even have a clear motive, except to follow through on her childhood decision. The motives you ascribe to her are not the ones she described for herself.

Lay off the boyfriend.

I’m amazed at the ease with which posters skim over what OP actually said and dwell on what was not said, and need not follow. One poster even declared the boyfriend will want sex next!

 

[thewanderer]

The boyfriend is practically ridiculing her desire to stay almost perfectly pure till marriage. He has told her he would feel cheated an unimpressed if they waited until the wedding ceremony to kiss. Whiling kissing before marriage is not inherently sinful, it is neither inherently necessary.

His girlfriend has set a high standard of purity, which is a noble goal. She stands in solidarity with thousands of woman religious who made a vow of perfect of chastity. In an age where so many young people have abandoned chastity, it is startling to see it blossom. His duty as a future husband would be to encourage her, and learn from her strength, as Saint Joseph did caring for Mary.

Instead, he tries to destroy something beautiful. This is not a Christian model of love. “Aggie” deserves someone who appreciates, or at least attempts to understand her motive for saving even her first kiss for her husband.

Here’s the thing, you see the OP’s perspective (waiting until marriage) as inherently better than the bf’s position (kissing before marriage). This just is not true. Both positions have merit, waiting til marriage to kiss is not more pure than showing loving affection to your SO when you are in a committed relationship discerning your future vocation. Deciding to do so does not mean that you are a more pure or virtuous person, sticking to such a decision also does no such thing. Kissing is a perfectly appropriate way of showing the very real affection that exists between dating couples, and, as such, is a legitimate good for those who are dating. Being someone who doesn’t see any value to waiting until marriage to kiss does not make you less pure or mean that you care less about purity or virtue. The OP has admitted that her reasons have nothing to do with purity, but rather they are a combination of pride in wanting to complete the challenge she set herself when younger and that the idea of having her first kiss be at her wedding in front of everyone is something she would like to do because it is cute, sweet, different, and unique. Absolutely nothing to do with purity. She is unilaterally deciding to cut out a legitimate good from their relationship because of pride and because she thinks its a “sweet” and “unique” idea. He doesn’t think its a sweet or cute idea, and so doesn’t understand why she continues to unilaterally insist upon cutting a good out of their relationship. This does not turn him into a villein or someone less virtuous than the OP. It is wrong to paint him out as such.

 

[thewanderer]

I’m amazed at the ease with which posters skim over what OP actually said and dwell on what was not said, and need not follow. One poster even declared the boyfriend will want sex next!

Seriously.

 

[kate_jackson]

I am assuming he is frustrated with the fact that you are saving your first kiss for your future husband but not the ‘other stuff’ that you are doing! It seems pedantic to me and if I was a man would be put off especially if you are intimate in other ways.

 

[runningdude]

Dude, she admits that she doesn’t even have a clear motive, except to follow through on her childhood decision. The motives you ascribe to her are not the ones she described for herself.

Lay off the boyfriend.

Its not the desire to kiss, its the manipulative means he is expressing this.

 

[Joe_5859]

Its not the desire to kiss, its the manipulative means he is expressing this.

So far, the only information we have is from the OP’s one brief post. I don’t think that qualifies any of us to determine whether or not the boyfriend is being manipulative.

Maybe he is. But maybe he’s not. Certainly, the OP can be aware of such a possibility. Then she can discern for herself whether or not that is the case. But I don’t think it’s helpful for us to assume that he is and start talking bad about him.

 

[runningdude]

Dude, she admits that she doesn’t even have a clear motive, except to follow through on her childhood decision. The motives you ascribe to her are not the ones she described for herself. …

Lay off the boyfriend.

Its not the desire to kiss, its the manipulative means he is expressing this. The OP won’t enjoy it specifically because of this manipulative attitude.

So many children image their first time having sex will be with their spouses; then in their teenage or college years, they “grow up” and realize this is silly and just do “it” because it’s not a big deal.

Jesus warns us to maintain our child like faith in God! The OP has an opportunity to explore her motives in greater detail.

Here’s the thing, you see the OP’s perspective (waiting until marriage) as inherently better than the bf’s position (kissing before marriage). This just is not true. Both positions have merit, waiting til marriage to kiss is not more pure than showing loving affection to your SO when you are in a committed relationship discerning your future vocation. …

In his First Letter to the Corinthians, Saint Paul tells us she would sin in neither case, but that it is better to refrain from marriage altogether, let alone kiss. It is a time honored tradition of the church.

The OP should not simply throw her first kiss away. Having such high standards will help her find a strong man who has a strong faith in God.