Saying rosary during mass

[zab]

The Mass hasn’t changed. The role of the laity, our active participation, involves praying and receiving our Lord in the Eucharist.

Some people are better able to focus their prayers on the Sacrifice at the altar by using the rosary. That’s what the rosary does, it assists us in praying. We Catholics are lucky that we have sacramentals for exactly that purpose. It’s really not that different than the way some people use Missals. (I use both, not at the same time, and occasionally will use no aids at all.)

Is it possible to be distracted and focused on other things while praying the rosary at Mass? Definitely, but it’s just as possible (in the case of some, more possible) to be distracted or focused on other things while sitting and watching the Mass without any prayer aids.

Pope Paul VI and the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments disagree with you. And they have wonderful things to say about praying the Rosary. They say it is a good preparation for Mass but it is not appropriate to pray during Mass. Read the links that I posted. They explain it much better than I.

 

[Hesychios]

St. Leonard recommended praying the Roasary during Mass…

This is interesting, can you give a reference?

I am most especially curious because I don’t know how many Saint Leonards there have been, the one I am aware of was born in the sixth century. Clearly that could not be the same.

 

[OhMalley]

Pope Paul VI and the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments disagree with you. And they have wonderful things to say about praying the Rosary. They say it is a good preparation for Mass but it is not appropriate to pray during Mass. Read the links that I posted. They explain it much better than I.

Thanks again for the information you provided. For some it’s just not going to make a difference – they have made-up their minds based on what they choose to believe and that’s that.

I’ll say it again. If for example the tradition of praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy came about during VC2 these same people would be (rightfully) attacking that tradition. Because the tradition of praying the Rosary during the Mass is “old”, that makes it OK for some…

 

[zab]

Quote from Apostolic Letter ROSARIUM VIRGINIS MARIAE of the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II to the Biships Clergy and Faithful on the Most Holy Rosary.

Objections to the Rosary

1. The timeliness of this proposal is evident from a number of considerations. First, the urgent need to counter a certain crisis of the Rosary, which in the present historical and theological context can risk being wrongly devalued, and therefore no longer taught to the younger generation. There are some who think that the centrality of the Liturgy, rightly stressed by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council, necessarily entails giving lesser importance to the Rosary. Yet, as Pope Paul VI made clear, not only does this prayer not conflict with the Liturgy, it sustains it, since it serves as an excellent introduction and a faithful echo of the Liturgy, enabling people to participate fully and interiorly in it and to reap its fruits in their daily lives.

 

[japhy]

If for example the tradition of praying the Chaplet of Divine Mercy came about during VC2 these same people would be (rightfully) attacking that tradition. Because the tradition of praying the Rosary during the Mass is “old”, that makes it OK for some…

That argument is a complete straw-man. Stick to the topic at hand.

 

[OhMalley]

That argument is a complete straw-man. Stick to the topic at hand.

The only reason anyone defends the practice of praying the Rosary DURING the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is because it was not frowned upon many years ago. If the practice of praying the Rosary during Mass sprang-up as a consequence of VC2 it would be loudly bashed by some of the very people who support the practice today.

We have updated guidance from the Church but that means absolutely nothing to those who have closed their mind on the subject.

 

[Hesychios]

The divine liturgy, or Mass, is the supreme prayer of the church.

That is followed in order of importance by the Liturgy of the Hours. These are the only two types of liturgical devotion of the church, they comprise the liturgical cycle.

All the others, like chaplets (the rosary is a chaplet) and the Divine Mercy prayer, Taize prayer and such are really private devotions, and later inventions. If they are done communally they should be scheduled at a time that does not interfere with the liturgical cycle. I cannot see how one can justify attempting to do one while the formal liturgy of the church is in progress.

It boggles the mind.

Michael

 

[ac_claire]

Pope Paul VI and the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments disagree with you. And they have wonderful things to say about praying the Rosary. They say it is a good preparation for Mass but it is not appropriate to pray during Mass. Read the links that I posted. They explain it much better than I.

I did read those links. The thing is, there are other Church documents that affirm- even encourage- the praying of the Rosary during Mass. These have been linked to earlier in the thread. The documents seem to contradict eachother. None of them are binding, ie: forbidding or obligating us either way. So…what do you do with that information?

 

[zab]

I did read those links. The thing is, there are other Church documents that affirm- even encourage- the praying of the Rosary during Mass. These have been linked to earlier in the thread. The documents seem to contradict eachother. None of them are binding, ie: forbidding or obligating us either way. So…what do you do with that information?

Either you get it or you don’t. Do what you want to do.

 

[ac_claire]

Either you get it or you don’t. Do what you want to do.

Nice. Thank you for that pointless reply to a sincere question.

 

[Fludgecow101]

Well as one of the recent popes said(I think), " Do not pray at mass, but pray the mass."

 

[Snerticus]

Snerticus, I noticed back in post #39 you told japhy:

In post #43 he then showed you two church documents confirming that praying the rosary is allowed during Mass.

I’m just scratching my head here over your response…“those documents you referred to are old.” What exactly are you looking for? “New” Church documents from the past 10-20 years confirming that Rosary during Mass is allowed? If so, why? You asked for Church documents and you got them. What else would it have to take to convince you?

I hope it doesn’t seem like I’m picking on you…I was just browsing this thread and that exchange jumped out at me. I was thinking it might be an oversight.

Sorry, I haven’t been here a while because I was through debating. It seemed like japhy was taking a lot of what I said out of context and you can’t debate with someone who does that. I decided to come back because I just saw a lot of hypocricy in not what japhy said, but another poster. So anyway, in answer to your question:

Well, I know a lot of things changed in the mass after Vatican II. And I think everyone would agree. Not the substance of the mass, mind you, but the way it is presented. (and just to give you an idea of how japhy was taking things out of context, I would guess that if he/she were to respond to this idea, they would only quote my first sentence and comment on that, not including the rest of my point - ie. the sentences after that - to make it look like I think Vatican changed the whole mass, substance and all.)

Obviously Latin gave way to the vernacular, that’s one change. Another as I pointed out, was that people were not expected to say the rosary. This happened AFTER those documents japhy presented to me were written. One thing that I think may have been discussed then, is the part the rosary plays in mass. Obviously, the quote I gave saying that people were no longer expected to say the rosary leads one to believe that in pre-Vatican days, they were expected to. So, now that they were no longer expected to, I’d imagine in some post-Vatican document somewhere, it would explain something about it, wouldn’t you agree?

After all, while I respect those documents, parts of them may be invalid today, just as parts of older (say centuries old) documents regarding the liturgy in those times may be invalid for today’s mass. I would like up-to date information regarding this. Sedevacantists can say we can do a lot of things today because they were done back then too, so what I’m looking for is current - or at least as current as possible - documentation.

I hope you understand that.

 

[Snerticus]

So praying the Rosary without physically handling the beads is permitted, whereas praying the Rosary with the beads wouldn’t be? I suppose there’s a case for the use of Rosary beads potentially causing scandal…

:idea::idea::idea:BINGO!!!:idea::idea::idea:

 

[Snerticus]

Apostolic Exhortation of His Holiness Pope Paul VI,

MARIALIS CULTIS

#48 …the Rosary is an exercise of piety that draws its motivating force from the liturgy and leads naturally back to it, if practiced in conformity with its original inspiration.; It does not, however, become part of the liturgy. In fact, meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary, by familiaring the hearts and minds of the faithful with the mysteries of Christ, can be an excellent preparation for the creation of those same mysteries in the liturgical action and an also become a continuing echo thereof. However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there.

See: vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_p-vi_exh_19740202_marialis-cultus_en.html

Thank you, this is what I needed.

This does NOT mean that I will go around telling everyone I see that saying the rosay during mass is wrong. But I just wanted to know if what I believed was correct or not.

Thanks again.

 

[Snerticus]

I did read those links. The thing is, there are other Church documents that affirm- even encourage- the praying of the Rosary during Mass. These have been linked to earlier in the thread. The documents seem to contradict eachother. None of them are binding, ie: forbidding or obligating us either way. So…what do you do with that information?

I’d like to see those documents if they are more current than the ones japhy quoted. Can you give me the link so I can read them?

Oh, and as for your last question, "So…what do you do with that information?", you do as you would do in any other discipline, you take the most current statement made regarding whatever subject and discard the others. The current pope is able to change things such as saying the rosary, and tomorrow Pope Benedict might contradict what was said by Pope John Paul. In that case you would go by what Pope Benedict says.

 

[ac_claire]

I’d like to see those documents if they are more current than the ones japhy quoted. Can you give me the link so I can read them?

It’s the links you already read, the ones japhy posted. But right, they’re too old so they must be ignored lol. Personally, in a 2000 year old Church it seems weird to me to call something from the 1950’s “old.”

A friend of mine also linked me to theCatechism of St. Pious X (scroll down to question#19) from the Vatican Congregation for the Clergy website.

 

[japhy]

It seemed like japhy was taking a lot of what I said out of context and you can’t debate with someone who does that.

It may have seemed that way to you, but that was not my intent. Would you mind pointing out to me what I took out of context? Do you have examples?

Well, I know a lot of things changed in the mass after Vatican II. And I think everyone would agree. Not the substance of the mass, mind you, but the way it is presented. (and just to give you an idea of how japhy was taking things out of context, I would guess that if he/she were to respond to this idea, they would only quote my first sentence and comment on that, not including the rest of my point - ie. the sentences after that - to make it look like I think Vatican changed the whole mass, substance and all.)

Why would I be so dishonest?! I don’t appreciate the ad hominem. I quote the amount I do for three reasons: 1) to keep the character count down, 2) because it’s against forum policy to over-quote, and 3) to give the author an idea of what I’m replying to specifically.

 

[mullenpm]

K-McD, your reasoning behind why a woman would be saying the Rosary during Mass is just absolutely ridiculous and an assumption of what you thought happened during the Latin Mass.

I am of an age when the Mass was said in Latin and it is not true that we were lost and not knowing what was being said.

Most people used a Missal and we most certainly knew what was being said because the Missal had English on one side of the page and Latin on the other.

I don’t know why this woman would have been saying the Rosary during Mass; I have seen people doing many irreverant things during Mass, but let us not blame her age.:ehh:

 

[OhMalley]

If praying the Rosary during the Mass had been verboten until VC2 when it became encouraged, and if our current pope discouraged the practice exactly as has been done in Marialis Cultis, the practice of praying the Rosary during the Mass would be thoroughly vilified on these forums.

 

[ac_claire]

If praying the Rosary during the Mass had been verboten until VC2 when it became encouraged, and if our current pope discouraged the practice exactly as has been done in Marialis Cultis, the practice of praying the Rosary during the Mass would be thoroughly vilified on these forums.

I have to agree, this is a straw man you’ve conjured up on your own that has no place in this discussion. Maybe start a new thread about it?