Saying rosary during mass

[Snerticus]

Was it? Where did I say that Snert?

You said it below in that same post, and also:

As I see it, if a new teaching comes along that seems to contradict an older teaching, the contradictory teaching is the one that needs to be discarded if either of them do. Unless of course the new teaching officially abrogates the older teaching.

Nothing was overturned, that’s my point. Nothing was abrogated. We have two conflicting opinions in official Church documents re: a private devotion. You’ve come out and said that in this case, the *more recent *documents cancel out the older. That’s what I challenge.

Fine, but I still hold to my original opinon. If you want to believe that a practice that was never encouraged in the NO Mass is okay solely by documents that never dealt with the NO Mass, that’s your prerogative. Unless the older documents do deal with the NO. I looked at the dates and just assumed there was no such thing as the NO back then.

If you want to ditch the older/newer argument entirely, let’s look at the number of opinions either way. There’s been at least three three official Church documents affirming the practice, one of them written by a saint and one (that I know of) that’s more recent which calls it a mistake.

The Pope that calls it a mistake may very well be a cannonized saint in the future. So if you place importance on saints, then it’s an even deal.

Also, you can add from japhy evening the odds even further:

It seems, from Marialis Cultus, that Pope Paul VI believed the Rosary to be a hindrance to participation in the liturgy. The Latin of paragraph 48 is:

Attamen non sine errore est, quod pro dolore?] adhuc alicubi fieri contingit, mariale Rosarium inter actionem liturgicam recitare.

The English translation on the Vatican web site is “However, it is a mistake to recite the Rosary during the celebration of the liturgy, though unfortunately this practice still persists here and there.”

I can’t seem to decipher the Latin properly. Here’s my attempt: “Nevertheless, it is not without error that, to [our] sorrow, it still occasionally happens that the Rosary of Mary is recited during the liturgical act.”

And finally, of course you’re going to find more documents for saying the rosary at mass. The Tridentine Mass was said prior to the NO. It was obviously encouraged at the Tridentine Mass. After the NO began being practiced however, there was no need for it to be encouraged anymore. There are relatively few Church documents after the NO was introduced than before. So by sheer logic alone, you will have more arguments for it, since before that time saying it was never a problem. It only became problematic after the NO. Which is what we have been talking about.

But we can throw both of these arguments out and go somewhere else for an opinion. Unless you’ve already been there. It discusses the reasons I’m against praying the rosary at mass and agrees with why I don’t condone it. But the biggest reason is that of scandal, as japhy figured out, and that I didn’t even realize it bothered me most until japhy mentioned it.

Especially to young kids - like me when I was little. One of the little old ladies I remember at mass whispered the rosary very loudly during the entire mass, or at least most of it. She never stopped when the priest said prayers or to any of our responses. The only thing she did do was go to communion. Not only was that distracting, it added to my already existing belief that you didn’t have to pay attention at mass. I really couldn’t figure out why I was getting yelled at to pay attention and here is this pious looking woman who wasn’t paying attention. Confounded the heck out of me. I think that’s what bothers me most. That even though you may be perfectly focused on the mass and the rosary at the same time, you still appear to be off in another world. I can see some adults even thinking that it is rude for someone at mass to not pay attention like that. Should we judge like this? No. Do we? Yes. I can’t make anyone else not judge something any more than you can make me have a different opinion.

And that’s my main concern with praying the rosary during mass. If, as japhy had asked me earlier, you said the rosary in your mind without the use of beads, that would be fine, as no one would percieve you doing your own thing. Or if you need the beads, they can be hidden in your hand and the rosary said silently. Again I say; it’s my opinion. But it is also other’s opinions, some who know much more about what’s appropriate in the Mass than you or I.

Of course you could be thinking about what’s for dinner or what movie you’re going to see too and it wouldn’t appear abnormal either. But that’s a subject for another discussion. One of which I fall guilty to every once in a while to my own dismay and horror. mad:

 

[Snerticus]

No one in this thread has made such claims, that sedevacantists are “evil” or “just this side of Satan”. Who here said they hate sedevacantists with a passion?

Catholics who accept the validity of Popes since and including Pius XII take offense at being called a sedevacantist, plain and simple. No hate involved.

japhy, i’m trying to point out the freaky response I got when I asked about ac claire. I was treated like I had basically said she was Satan. I didn’t understand why the reprimands as a response to my question. Someone called me a sedevacantist once, and I simply said I wasn’t. I didn’t freak out about it. Why all the freaking out?

 

[japhy]

japhy, i’m trying to point out the freaky response I got when I asked about ac claire. I was treated like I had basically said she was Satan.

I’m sorry, but I don’t see her reaction as being quite so dramatic.

 

[mullenpm]

Holly, there are additional indulgences for praying the Rosary in church, in the presence of the Holy Eucharist in the Tabernacle, so it is a good thing to pray the Rosary in church.

I always pray my Rosary before Mass – it does not take 40 to 50 minutes as a poster said. A Rosary said reverently will take about 15 minutes. I use the Scriptual Rosary booklet with a medication for each Hail Mary and it still only takes 15 to 20 minutes.

 

[Snerticus]

I’m sorry, but I don’t see her reaction as being quite so dramatic.

I’m talking about everyone’s reply in general. I’m just totally confused.

now you’re inferring that I’m a sede? In a debate, these are ad hominem attacks. If you keep it up, eventually your credibility will suffer and someone is going to report you for it.

Report me for what? I didn’t infer anything. I asked a genuine question. And I don’t understand what ‘ad hominem’ means.

This is becoming absurd. I have seen no evidence that ac claire is sedevacantist

Why was my question absurd? Granted my evidence may have appeared vague to you, but it was the only option I saw as to why she rejected current documents.

+1 ac did not deserve that

Deserve what???

Alright, either I’m going crazy which is a distinct possiblity or you are not taking my posts correctly. I wanted to know why these comments were made and your reply was “I don’t see her response as being quite so dramatic”. I didn’t ask why the drama, I asked why the responses. They seemed too condemning and I didn’t do anything. I asked what I thought was a legitemate question and I get treated like “how dare I”. Evidently by the responses I now know it is not a legitimate question.

And for some reason in this thread totally unknown to me, I am misunderstanding you all and you are definitely misunderstanding me. So how about we come to an impasse? Because I am getting more and more confused the more you respond to my posts.

 

[zab]

Ok, If I can be blunt…you’re developing a habit on this forum of jumping to paranoid and ridiculous conclusions. First you (baselessly) accuse somone else who disagrees with you of deliberately manipulating your replies, and now you’re inferring that I’m a sede? In a debate, these are ad hominem attacks. If you keep it up, eventually your credibility will suffer and someone is going to report you for it.

As to the comments in your first paragraph, yes you have a good point, except that those cases aren’t really the Holy See contradicting the Holy See but rather the Holy See officially abrogating old disciplines with new ones.

Praying the Rosary during Mass is a discipline along the lines of a private devotion as it’s not in the rubrics of the Mass. (You could even say it’s sorta in the same family as holding hands during the Our Father, categorically at least.)

Several documents of the Church have affirmed or encouraged this private devotion of the laity. There is one that’s been shown here that calls it a “mistake”. If you have decided that that document overrides all the others, that’s your problem. It’s certainly not the way the Church orders itself.

**If you and zab and OhMally have decided that the way other people pray the Mass is somehow your business…well then that’s a personal problem for yall and I hope for your sake you can find some peace about it. **

**Why do you disagree with it at all? You’ve chosen not to do it for yourself, but why have you made the way other people pray at Mass your concern? **

Let me borrow OhMalley’s strawman for a sec. **If I started a thread criticising those who hold hands for the Our Father or raise their arms in prayer at Mass, many of yall here would be jumping down my throat telling me to stop judging the way other people pray, **stop being so critical, just focus on the Mass and my own prayers, etc., etc. So…why don’t you do the same?

You are way out of line with your personal attacks against other board members. And don’t know what others on this thread may think about another issue. I have an opinion on this issue just as you have and I have posted links for my position just as you have.

 

[Patrick_Eastin]

The topic of this thread is saying the rosary during Mass. Unless you can discuss this topic, on topic, without resorting to personal attacks, I can and will shut this thread down. Key word - charity.

 

[I_Believe]

As for me, I quoted from authorities. I never attacked others for their comments or even stated “bluntly” that the practice was wrong. Neither did Pope Paul VI for that matter. He said it was “a mistake” not that it was a sin or forbidden. And that is the reason that I wrote in one of my posts, “Either you get it or you don’t. Do what you want to do.” Someone asked the question what do you do when there seem to be contradicting statements coming from different popes. If you don’t understand that it is a mistake then there is no reason for you to give up the practice. It was not my intent to offend anyone with my posts. It would be nice if people would stick to the facts without attacking other members.

Zab, you bolded the part where I said “as some here do”.

I read your posts. I read the whole thread.

The thing is, after folks demand “proof”, once it is presented, they ignore it.

 

[I_Believe]

The topic of this thread is saying the rosary during Mass. Unless you can discuss this topic, on topic, without resorting to personal attacks, I can and will shut this thread down. Key word - charity.

Noted

 

[OhMalley]

The topic of this thread is saying the rosary during Mass. Unless you can discuss this topic, on topic, without resorting to personal attacks, I can and will shut this thread down. Key word - charity.

I have never seen that sorta of verbiage used on these forums even when things were out of control.

 

[peary]

I saw an interesting thing during mass yesterday, something other forumites have seen and commented on in the past; a woman was holding her rosary and apparently saying (to herself) the rosary during mass. I didn’t notice when she started, but she had finished about halfway through the Eucharistic prayer, took the case out of her purse and put it away.

The only reason I can think of that she prayed the Rosary through the mass is that she started before mass and didn’t have time to finish. However, there’s no way she could have hoped to finish before mass started, since it took her all 2/3 of the way through mass to finish i.e. if that was the explanation, she would have had to start about 40 or so minutes earlier that she did. I guess it looked more to me like she was purposefully saying the rosary during mass rather than getting caught short having intended to say and complete the rosary before mass began.

I don’t mean to be critical, but I just wondered why anyone would distract themself from mass by saying the rosary. It wasn’t distracting to anyone else, as far as I know, it didn’t distract me, but such a thing is curious to me as to why someone would do that.

To me, mass would distract from saying the rosary and the rosary would distract from the mass.

Did you go up to her and offer her the Sign of Peace? Just asking…

 

[Newbie2]

Did you go up to her and offer her the Sign of Peace? Just asking…

No, I was in choir WAY across the church. If she were in my immediate vicinity, I would have. Why do you ask?

 

[ac_claire]

I have never seen that sorta of verbiage used on these forums even when things were out of control.

That doesn’t shock me since you’ve only been on these forums for a week lol.

 

[Leonius]

I have never seen that sorta of verbiage used on these forums even when things were out of control.

Calling someone a Sede with no proof whatsoever would come under insulting other members which is against the rules, if Snerticus has not received a personal infraction for it then the moderator has actually been incredibly lenient as I have received them for far less things.

Stick around and you will see plenty more of it I’m sure, the mods have to keep control of knuckle heads who like to throw insults about after all.

 

[palmas85]

I will pose a question to all of those who feel that praying a rosary during Mass is wrong. I’m not taking sides, I just have a question.

What utter difference does it make in the scheme of things?. What is the big problem here?? Does it distract and bother you for some reason? Does it destroy your sense of adoration and rapt observation of what the Priest is doing? Does the clacking of the rosary beads lead you to the brink of madness? Do you feel terror for the state of their souls? What is it?? I have heard this issue brought up repeatedly over and over and over again through the years and it makes no sense to me at all.

I do have a theory about the issue though. Back after the Vatican II Council in those heady years when all were swept away by the veritable orgy of change change ,there was a pretty much concerted effort to downplay Marian devotions of any kind. More than a few of the attendees at that Council were ashamed of some of the more exagerated displays of Marian devotion of the period. Public recitals of Rosaries were pretty rare and you almost never heard of one in a Church at all… In one of the numerous progressive and up to date catechisms that proliferated in those years the Rosary was described as an old time Catholic devotion not much practiced any more. The faithful were exhorted to never condemn those that still prayed them but look upon them with love for the obvious though misplaced devotion that they had for it.

I would venture that more than a few of those who take such great exception to the practice of praying the rosary during the Mass are of that mindset as well.

 

[zab]

I will pose a question to all of those who feel that praying a rosary during Mass is wrong. I’m not taking sides, I just have a question.

What utter difference does it make in the scheme of things?. What is the big problem here?? Does it distract and bother you for some reason? No Does it destroy your sense of adoration and rapt observation of what the Priest is doing? No Does the clacking of the rosary beads lead you to the brink of madness? No Do you feel terror for the state of their souls? Not in the least. What is it?? I was informed by good and holy priests that the rosary, while a wonderful prayer, should not be prayed during the Mass. Just because I have an opinion and have contributed to this this thread does not mean that I am obsessed with others praying the rosary during Mass. I have heard this issue brought up repeatedly over and over and over again through the years and it makes no sense to me at all. It does make sense to me. But I am not going to get into a debate about it.

I do have a theory about the issue though. Back after the Vatican II Council in those heady years when all were swept away by the veritable orgy of change change ,there was a pretty much concerted effort to downplay Marian devotions of any kind. More than a few of the attendees at that Council were ashamed of some of the more exagerated displays of Marian devotion of the period. Public recitals of Rosaries were pretty rare and you almost never heard of one in a Church at all… In one of the numerous progressive and up to date catechisms that proliferated in those years the Rosary was described as an old time Catholic devotion not much practiced any more. The faithful were exhorted to never condemn those that still prayed them but look upon them with love for the obvious though misplaced devotion that they had for it.

I would venture that more than a few of those who take such great exception to the practice of praying the rosary during the Mass are of that mindset as well.

And I believe that you are wrong in making such a judgement.

 

[zab]

I will pose a question to all of those who feel that praying a rosary during Mass is wrong. I’m not taking sides, I just have a question. Sure doesn’t sound like it

What utter difference does it make in the scheme of things?. none to meWhat is the big problem here?? I have no problem with itDoes it distract and bother you for some reason? not at allDoes it destroy your sense of adoration and rapt observation of what the Priest is doing? No Does the clacking of the rosary beads lead you to the brink of madness? No Do you feel terror for the state of their souls?Not in the least What is it?? I have heard from more than one good holy priest and other devout Catholic apologists that the rosary should not be prayed during Mass. These people are devoted to our Blessed Mother. Just because I can understand why the rosary should not be prayed during the Mass does not mean that I am offended or annoyed or whatever you think others are thinking because others pray the rosary during Mass. I am just participating on this thread and that is it. I don’t judge others for doing this. So why do others judge me for having an opinion? I have heard this issue brought up repeatedly over and over and over again through the years and it makes no sense to me at all.

I do have a theory about the issue though. Back after the Vatican II Council in those heady years when all were swept away by the veritable orgy of change change ,there was a pretty much concerted effort to downplay Marian devotions of any kind. More than a few of the attendees at that Council were ashamed of some of the more exagerated displays of Marian devotion of the period. Public recitals of Rosaries were pretty rare and you almost never heard of one in a Church at all… In one of the numerous progressive and up to date catechisms that proliferated in those years the Rosary was described as an old time Catholic devotion not much practiced any more. The faithful were exhorted to never condemn those that still prayed them but look upon them with love for the obvious though misplaced devotion that they had for it.

I would venture that more than a few of those who take such great exception to the practice of praying the rosary during the Mass are of that mindset as well.
And I would venture that you are the one judgeing others not me.

 

[ac_claire]

I do have a theory about the issue though. Back after the Vatican II Council in those heady years when all were swept away by the veritable orgy of change change ,there was a pretty much concerted effort to downplay Marian devotions of any kind. More than a few of the attendees at that Council were ashamed of some of the more exagerated displays of Marian devotion of the period. Public recitals of Rosaries were pretty rare and you almost never heard of one in a Church at all… In one of the numerous progressive and up to date catechisms that proliferated in those years the Rosary was described as an old time Catholic devotion not much practiced any more. The faithful were exhorted to never condemn those that still prayed them but look upon them with love for the obvious though misplaced devotion that they had for it.

I would venture that more than a few of those who take such great exception to the practice of praying the rosary during the Mass are of that mindset as well.

I think it’s safe to bet that this is true for some of the people who have a problem with others praying the Rosary at Mass.

Another likely reason is some people don’t seem to understand the different ways the Mass can be prayed with or without the Rosary, and because they don’t see this they just see people selfishly, fearfully clinging to familiar old private devotions instead of focusing their full attention on the Sacrifice before them. That’s what I thought anyhow and the whole concept of praying the Rosary at Mass rubbed me the wrong way for years for that reason.

Then I started going to the TLM once a month, and I met some people-- who I respected very much-- who on occasion would pray the Rosary during Mass.

Having problems focusing on my own, and with the usual problems of a wandering mind and wandering attention, I started to use the Rosary to help focus my prayers and my thoughts during the quiet parts of the TLM.

If I hadn’t done it, experienced it, for myself, I don’t know if I’d have ever been able to shake that feeling that I was somehow not giving the Eucharistic Lord his due if I prayed the Rosary at Mass. Instead, what many people are doing is using the Rosary to pray the Mass. Which is quite different than your everyday, regular, private Rosary.

This has just been my experience with it.

 

[mullenpm]

peary, I believe that Newbie2 was suggesting that the Sign of Peace might be considered by some as much a distraction as someone saying the Rosary during Mass. A suggestion I must agree with.

 

[zab]

peary, I believe that Newbie2 was suggesting that the Sign of Peace might be considered by some as much a distraction as someone saying the Rosary during Mass. A suggestion I must agree with.

:nope: