Scandal witnessed during Communion

[paperwight66]

In what way?

You said he received multiple times. Perhaps he felt that he was getting more of whatever the Sacrament represented to him the more times he received. It doesn’t sound like he was doing it out of spite.

Because of my position and visibility, I, too, have to deal with people behaving oddly in church. There are a lot more people out in the community with mental health issues than is generally realised. Always err on the side of gentleness and kindness!

 

[Truth_Faith13]

Dear All,

I am the Chief Altar Server and a Eucharistic Minister in my Parish- I have permission from our Archbishop to assist Father giving Holy Communion- I also on occasion visit the sick, my Priest is elderly and needs this extra help, I am a Pastoral Assistant…for those who are not fans of Eucharistic Ministers, I understand- Pope Francis said himself at times the Clergy Clericize the Laity too much, however assisting the old Father give Communion during Mass and visiting those he isn’t able to do so is a big help to him and he has great confidence in this situation- it is a good thing.

Anyway, last Sunday at Mass I noticed a young man- who was there with his “partner” and their two children, they were clearly not married and it was obvious he wasn’t a Catholic (I am not being judgemental, just stating the fact) they were in the front bench and were very visible to me as I was on the Sanctuary Serving. At Communion time this young man came forward and received Holy Communion from the Deacon- I noticed it and was concerned, I saw him go back to his place…a few minutes later he decided to go up again and this time went to Father and received Holy Communion again- I was shocked! I am somebody who has a great love for the Eucharist and was upset to see this- however he then went back to his place and got his daughter who couldn’t have been more than 2 years old and again went up for Communion and held the girl up for the Priest to give her a host and Father said “no” but Father is an old man and didn’t remember this man had already been up for Communion and gave the Host to him- again! I was shocked and scandalized to see this. The man was clearly extremely ignorant, I mean he clearly has no understanding of the Eucharist or what he was doing, and I know that he didn’t realize it was wrong but for us Catholics this is shocking! I went immediately to tell Father as soon as Mass had finished who was horrified and said the Man was extremely ignorant and that he was going to catch him as he left the Church- I do not know what Father said to him.

As the man walked by me I refrained from saying anything to him but then his “girlfriend” who seems to be a Catholic but poorly instructed asked me if she could speak to the Priest (I was wearing my alb) I assume they want to have their children Baptised- but anyway I said to her “Father is waiting to speak to your PARTNER, he mustn’t receive Communion”- I couldn’t hold myself back from saying this. I know the man was ignorant and didn’t understand but this isn’t your average misunderstanding person coming up for Communion- this is a real Eucharistic Scandal!

Just out of curiosity - how do you know that they were not married and he is not a catholic? I’ve heard stories on here about catholics doing things they shouldn’t, so he could just be another poor catholic?

 

[Beryllos]

My first thought is that it could have been a mental health issue. Perhaps some kind of compulsion.

In what way?

When he went the second time, I think he wanted to receive it from the Priest, probably thinking it would be more efficacious. Then the third time he went on behalf of his daughter. Wow, this guy really wants it! Forgive him, and pray that he and his family will continue to come closer to the church.

 

[decjlc]

It is unfortunate that he doesn’t know much about the Eucharist and had several hosts, but how do you “know” that they’re not married if they are new? Was it a lack of a wedding ring? I’m unsure how you could definitively call him her “partner” and why you’d automatically jump to that conclusion. I’ve been married for six years and can count on one hand the number of times my husband has worn his wedding ring.

 

[Miserissima]

Talk to Father first about my suggestions, but you’re wearing too many hats for one Mass.

Go into the sacristy, dust off the hand held paten, and stand next to Father as he is distributing communion. Advise him when you see something irregular: you can’t say “I think that couple is living in sin,” but you can say, “Father, this person has already received.”

As “chief” altar server, enlist at least one altar server to do this if you want to act in the capacity of an EMHC.

If you (or someone else) will act as an altar server next to Father in lieu of the EMHC capacity, this will more effectively protect the Eucharist. Slowing down distribution is a distant second to that duty.

 

[paperwight66]

Hmmm. I don’t think any priest would risk a scene at that precise moment, do you? How would he know how the person would react?

 

[marywarfield]

I don’t see a scandal here. I realize the OP is
scandalized and I think it’s an overreaction. If the
man was pocketing the Host or throwing it on the
floor that would be scandalous.
Maybe he was thinking there is a difference in
the Host from the priest as opposed to the lay
person.
Let the priest handle it. If he is do old he needs
your help that suggests he has the experience to
deal with it.

 

[tawny]

Just leave it in the hands of the priest .

Agree.

 

[Memaw]

True- you are right, however I know she wanted to have the children baptized- I am a Pastoral Assistant and have been a Special Minister for a number of years now and it is my duty to do what I can as a Catholic to protect the Eucharistic, as I was taught by the Monsignor who instructed me for this special role- especially when there is a scandal like that. I reported it to Father who told me it was the right thing to do- he said that they will need a serious amount of instruction before their children could be Baptised and he thanked me for telling the Catholic girlfriend whilst her partner was not present- as he said she needed to have been told- which I did so in my official capacity as Pastoral Assistant (Personal Assistant to the Priest) and as a Special Minister.

You did the right thing and I think to many turn their head the other way and don’t do anything to help someone. One of the Spiritual works of Mercy is to admonish the sinner, in a kind and truthful way. Thank God for your training and understanding of the Faith. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Jon_S_1]

You did the right thing and I think to many turn their head the other way and don’t do anything to help someone. One of the Spiritual works of Mercy is to admonish the sinner, in a kind and truthful way. Thank God for your training and understanding of the Faith. God Bless, Memaw

It is the priest role to admonish the sinner once he knows so. Same with layity. There is nothing here for the OP to know they are sinners.

It is not the job of the welcoming ushers at the door to hold confessions before entrance, or worse, “admonish” perceived sins by simply looking at people.

 

[Memaw]

It is the priest role to admonish the sinner once he knows so. Same with layity. There is nothing here for the OP to know they are sinners.

It is not the job of the welcoming ushers at the door to hold confessions before entrance, or worse, “admonish” perceived sins by simply looking at people.

Receiving Holy Communion several times at one Mass is not wrong??? seems he knew more about them than what your giving him credit for. God Bless, Memaw

 

[ccmcmg]

Now you may have scared them off. They may reject the church on this experience.
.

This is, unfortunately, true. It happened to an extent to me, many many years ago, similarly. I had the audacity to kneel at the appropriate times during Mass. However, although this parish had kneelers, they, as a community, decided to ignore the Bishop’s directive to kneel, and instead stood. We had no problem with them standing; we chose to kneel. We were chastised harshly by long time church members after Mass; that was our ‘welcome to the parish’ moment; it was our first Mass attending our new parish. (We were even seated in the BACK, so it’s not like anyone could think we were trying to be ‘holier than thou’.) Although this didn’t drive us from parish and Church, it did set the stage for the coming years, which did.

However, I do understand the dismay that the OP felt. I am too hurt by the carelessness in the way many Catholics receive the Eucharist. But is their intent to harm the Lord? If their teaching has not proper, it may not be entirely their fault. I certainly receive more thoughtfully, reverently, prayerfully now than I did in previous years. If you’ve informed the priest, then let him handle it. Pray for all who don’t understand the sanctity of the Body and Blood of Christ; offer up prayers in reparation for those who have offended the Eucharist.

Fraz24 I also gently recommend that you may consider some sort of gentle apology to them, at least the woman; perhaps for coming across harsh to her, and a short (VERY SHORT) explanation of your reasoning. If you feel you cannot do this in person, a short note, written one day and sent a few days later upon review, might work wonders for all of you. I know that would have been very healing for me when on either side of the situation. I’d be more than happy to give you my thoughts on the note if you do go that route, privately of course.

God bless you and your love for the Eucharist, the Body and Blood of Christ. I pray that this family understands and receives the warmth and beauty of the Church for themselves and their children.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Receiving Holy Communion several times at one Mass is not wrong??? seems he knew more about them than what your giving him credit for. God Bless, Memaw

It is wrong. It is likely a mistake.

His role would have been to graciously welcome them, and walk them to the priest of whom he told the problem.

Not to discourage baptism, not to say when they ask to see a priest “oh he’s looking for you you can’t receive communion! Wait till he lays in on you!”

As I said this person has no problem giving communion to his sinner "friends ". He is missing the plank in his own eye.

 

[Miserissima]

Hmmm. I don’t think any priest would risk a scene at that precise moment, do you? How would he know how the person would react?

I’m not speaking for the priest. I’m telling the Altar server / EMHC to pick a role based on his saying the priest didn’t recognize the communicant.

We can hypothesize all day what the good priest would do. It’s his call. If the OP disagrees with how his priest handles it, that’s another topic.

I only HOPE that the OP wouldn’t choose to open another thread calling his priest “liberal” the way the OP has done here when counseled to a. act charitably and b. leave it to the priest.

I won’t even speculate that the priest could say, “One per customer, but I’m happy to speak with you after Mass.”

But then again, everyone who doesn’t agree with the OP is “look[ing] for any excuse to tell somebody they are in the wrong for holding to proper Catholic teaching and rubrics and then pushing their liberal thoughts on everyone else-”

Those who offer constructive solutions, such as myself and others, must also be in that category. I advised:

Talk to your priest.
Choose to be either an altar server or EMHC in the Mass.
If you can’t assist accordingly, get someone else to do it.
Signal the priest when someone tries to receive a second time (regardless of how the OP judges the state of the communicant’s soul).
Watch what the priest does and follow his lead with submission.

…and for that, I and most others on this thread have been slandered by the OP.

Let’s say that the priest has been notified that Joe Smith has already received communion.

The priest chooses not to respond immediately. The altar server trusts the priests judgment or not. But yes, at least rye priest was made aware.

After all, no one is saying the Eucharist shouldn’t be protected. The altar server cum EMHC has done his due diligence to protect both the Eucharist and the priest.

But the “Waah waah no one wants to play with me” response to CAF encouraging charity as well as providing practical solutions is incredibly insulting.

Perhaps the OP doesn’t want too choose what to do. After all, if the good father is moved or retired, the OP may not enjoy as much responsibility in the parish that he claims to have.

 

[Memaw]

It is wrong. It is likely a mistake.

His role would have been to graciously welcome them, and walk them to the priest of whom he told the problem.

Not to discourage baptism, not to say when they ask to see a priest “oh he’s looking for you you can’t receive communion! Wait till he lays in on you!”

As I said this person has no problem giving communion to his sinner "friends ". He is missing the plank in his own eye.

Likely a mistake. You bet it was!!! Aren’t you putting words in the OP’s mouth?? God Bless, Memaw

 

[Jon_S_1]

Likely a mistake. You bet it was!!! Aren’t you putting words in the OP’s mouth?? God Bless, Memaw

Perhaps but the OP clearly showed his attitude as incredulous, and angry/upset.

He said his response to being asked “Excuse me can I speak to a priest” was not “sure hi how are you,” but instead “you can’t receive communion!”

Really? This is unacceptable. I’d say more unacceptable than what happened in the communion line.

I am pretty sure, hopefully I’m wrong, but I’d guess the woman heard the OP exactly the way I described regardless of the exact words, the message was “you aren’t welcome here.”

Imagine if this had been done:

Woman: “excuse me but can I speak to a priest”

OP: "sure I can walk with you to find him "

Woman: “oh thank you so much, we are new and need to talk to him about some things.”

OP: "well, welcome! I noticed your husband took your daughter for communion, I hope being told no didn’t upset you. It’s just since we believe that the Eucharist is truly the body and blood of Christ we reserve it for baptized Catholics only and children don’t receive it until they have some classes at elementary school age. "

Woman: "oh I had no idea , thank you. He’s not my husband just my boyfriend. We wanted to look into coming back to the church and having our daughter baptized. "

OP: " well I know father can help you through all of that, and I am happy to help you in any way I can as well. I’m so glad you came to our parish. "

Woman: “Thank you!!”

OP: "father, this is ‘Jill’, her and her boyfriend had a little misunderstanding in the communion line today and they also want to talk to you about returning to the church and baptizing their daughter. "

Such a conversation would have set a welcoming tone of friendship while addressing every concern and most importantly helping the couple come back to learn the faith.

An opportunity was missed.

OP let us know if you ever see them again!

 

[otjm]

Receiving Holy Communion several times at one Mass is not wrong??? seems he knew more about them than what your giving him credit for. God Bless, Memaw

Let me give you two examples of receiving several times": the first is the minister of the cup - whether ordinary or extraordinary. If there is Precious
Blood left over after all have received, the person ministering the cup is to consume the remained (and this normally after they have received it at the start of Communion).

The second is from our local Trappist abbey. After Communion is distributed, if there are remaining Hosts, the celebrant will walk over to the monks and distribute the remaining Hosts. At the abbey, everyone (except the monks) puts a host into the group to be brought up to the altar at the Offertory; because the monks receive from one large host the abbey makes, there are usually a few consecrated Hosts left over after Communion, and they do not retain them for a future Mass. The extra Hosts are distributed both the the ordained and the professed monks in no particular order.

Both are legitimately within the rules of the Church.

That is not to suggest that someone should go up several times to receive, but there are circumstances where it is not an issue. The OP has set out an unusual circumstance, one which appears to have occurred in ignorance.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Dear All,

I am the Chief Altar Server and a Eucharistic Minister in my Parish- I have permission from our Archbishop to assist Father giving Holy Communion- I also on occasion visit the sick, my Priest is elderly and needs this extra help, I am a Pastoral Assistant…for those who are not fans of Eucharistic Ministers, I understand- Pope Francis said himself at times the Clergy Clericize the Laity too much, however assisting the old Father give Communion during Mass and visiting those he isn’t able to do so is a big help to him and he has great confidence in this situation- it is a good thing.

Anyway, last Sunday at Mass I noticed a young man- who was there with his “partner” and their two children, they were clearly not married and it was obvious he wasn’t a Catholic (I am not being judgemental, just stating the fact) they were in the front bench and were very visible to me as I was on the Sanctuary Serving. At Communion time this young man came forward and received Holy Communion from the Deacon- I noticed it and was concerned, I saw him go back to his place…a few minutes later he decided to go up again and this time went to Father and received Holy Communion again- I was shocked! I am somebody who has a great love for the Eucharist and was upset to see this- however he then went back to his place and got his daughter who couldn’t have been more than 2 years old and again went up for Communion and held the girl up for the Priest to give her a host and Father said “no” but Father is an old man and didn’t remember this man had already been up for Communion and gave the Host to him- again! I was shocked and scandalized to see this. The man was clearly extremely ignorant, I mean he clearly has no understanding of the Eucharist or what he was doing, and I know that he didn’t realize it was wrong but for us Catholics this is shocking! I went immediately to tell Father as soon as Mass had finished who was horrified and said the Man was extremely ignorant and that he was going to catch him as he left the Church- I do not know what Father said to him.

As the man walked by me I refrained from saying anything to him but then his “girlfriend” who seems to be a Catholic but poorly instructed asked me if she could speak to the Priest (I was wearing my alb) I assume they want to have their children Baptised- but anyway I said to her “Father is waiting to speak to your PARTNER, he mustn’t receive Communion”- I couldn’t hold myself back from saying this. I know the man was ignorant and didn’t understand but this isn’t your average misunderstanding person coming up for Communion- this is a real Eucharistic Scandal!

Unless you yelled “he mustn’t receive Communion” I don’t see where you did anything out of line. At most, I would suggest reviewing how you phrased your comment to this woman to see if there was a gentler way to address the issue (I’m an abrasive person and have to do this often, and for the record I would have most likely said something very similar).

To those criticizing the OP- While the OP is not clergy, he isn’t just another layman (Chief Altar Server and a Eucharistic Minister in my Parish- I have permission from our Archbishop to assist Father giving Holy Communion); and even if he were, its not out of line for a layman to conduct an “on the spot correction” of another layman.

 

[Fraz94]

Thank you to everyone for posting- may God bless you all. I am going to be a good Christian and just accept all you say and thank you for it. For those who suggest I shouted at the woman or rudely spoke to her, I said it very politely and with a smile.

 

[marywarfield]

It is the priest role to admonish the sinner once he knows so. Same with layity. There is nothing here for the OP to know they are sinners.

It is not the job of the welcoming ushers at the door to hold confessions before entrance, or worse, “admonish” perceived sins by simply looking at people.

Exactly. There is an older more experienced priest
on site- the lay associate informed the priest of the
discrepancy and that is all that is required of the
laity unless they believe the priest is too senile to
figure it out.