Scandals causing more Germans to leave Catholic Church, cardinal says

[ProVobis]

Scandals causing more Germans to leave Catholic Church, cardinal says

A German cardinal warned that the number of Catholics leaving his country’s church is “alarmingly high” and urged an end to “scandals and vexations” involving clergy.

“There’s no doubt these figures must make us think. We’ve obviously suffered a loss of trust and credibility which has rarely happened so violently,” Cardinal Karl Lehmann of Mainz wrote in a column published in the Aug. 3 issue of Faith and Life, the diocese’s weekly newspaper.

“The church isn’t just another club, and all efforts must now be made to prevent more scandals through repentance and renewal,” wrote Cardinal Lehmann, a former president of the German bishops’ conference.

The column followed the release of new church data that showed a sharp increase in Catholics removing their names from parish and diocesan membership rolls.

Catholics made up 29.9 percent of Germany’s population of 82 million in 2013, according to church figures published July 18. In comparison, 29 percent of Germans claimed membership in the Protestant Evangelical Church of Germany.

Registered departures slowed during the 2005-2013 pontificate of German Pope Benedict XVI, but jumped again to nearly 179,000 last year, from more than 118,000 in 2012. More than 10,000 Catholics joined or rejoined the church during the year, according to church data.

Departures doubled to nearly 8,000 in the troubled Limburg Diocese, where Bishop Franz-Peter Tebartz-van Elst resigned in March after controversy emerged over expenditures for his residence and a diocesan center.

The church reported that Sunday Mass attendance dropped from 11.7 percent to 10.8 percent of Catholics during the year, compared to 22 percent in 1989. Church baptisms and marriages also fell.

In addition, the number of Catholic parishes dropped during 2013 by 137 to just over 11,000 after several of the country’s 27 dioceses launched reorganizations to cope with declining membership.

(more)

 

[randomusername]

This is happening in every country around the world. It’s truly tragic.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Lol 22% Mass attendance in 1989! Looks like that train left a long time ago.

 

[ProVobis]

Lol 22% Mass attendance in 1989! Looks like that train left a long time ago.

Compared to France, that’s a boom. Compared to Poland, that’s a bust.

Or so I hear.

 

[chero23]

I see why it upsets people about scandals and controversy, but no where are you going to find a place without that. In my opinion people just use that as an excuse.

 

[Thorns]

I see why it upsets people about scandals and controversy, but no where are you going to find a place without that. In my opinion people just use that as an excuse.

I dont think its an excuse. I think there is a temptation there that says, “If the Church doesn’t care about all that stuff that it preaches, why should I?”

 

[chero23]

I dont think its an excuse. I think there is a temptation there that says, “If the Church doesn’t care about all that stuff that it preaches, why should I?”

But you well know that’s not the case. If you actually investigate you will see that the church does try to fix its errors.

 

[Thorns]

But you well know that’s not the case. If you actually investigate you will see that the church does try to fix its errors.

Yes and no. The more investigating that is done, the more dirt that is dug up sadly. Its too much. And the only time it begins to fix its errors is when its absolutely forced to and when the spotlight is on. Im not sure what to make of it myself. Sometimes the Church seems all politics to me.

I can sympathize with those who have broken away from the Church. Its a feeling of very deep betrayal, not something you can lightly brush off and put on them and says they were just looking for an excuse.

 

[chero23]

Yes and no. The more investigating that is done, the more dirt that is dug up sadly. Its too much. And the only time it begins to fix its errors is when its absolutely forced to and when the spotlight is on. Im not sure what to make of it myself. Sometimes the Church seems all politics to me.

I can sympathize with those who have broken away from the Church. Its a feeling of very deep betrayal, not something you can lightly brush off and put on them and says they were just looking for an excuse.

I know this is about the RCC but in studies, there are more pedophile problems with Protestant ministers than there are with catholic priests. I’m not saying it’s right but were not the only ones with issues. It’s like tim staples said, if you think you have found the perfect church, the moment you walk in there the church will no longer be perfect. People have always made mistakes in the church. Do you remember with Jesus? Remember judas, remember Peter? Remember the apostles running when Jesus was going through the passion? They didn’t give up, they came back stronger than ever.

 

[TK421]

This is happening in every country around the world. It’s truly tragic.

Fortunately, no it isn’t.

For Western Europe, and perhaps Germany in particular, you need to allow the reset button to set in. Once the Church in that corner of the world is perceived as being small enough to be non-threatening, which by and large has already happened, it can lick its wounds and experience a modest, slow, painful, divinely protected recovery. Babyboomer Europeans are angry at the Catholic Church. Millennial Europeans are so divorced from it that they find it an alien curiosity more than anything. This isn’t such a bad thing.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Lol 22% Mass attendance in 1989! Looks like that train left a long time ago.

I think a lot of these scandals give people the excuse they need to leave.

If their Faith and understanding of history were more solid and grounded in reality, this would not be happening.

 

[Perlita]

Our faith is in Jesus and His only Church,… where we will go…?..Like St. Theresa of Avila did “reformation from within”…Jesus is with us “till the end of times”… Let’s pray for our Church and our priests… We can’t be afraid, even if…

 

[randomusername]

Fortunately, no it isn’t.

For Western Europe, and perhaps Germany in particular, you need to allow the reset button to set in. Once the Church in that corner of the world is perceived as being small enough to be non-threatening, which by and large has already happened, it can lick its wounds and experience a modest, slow, painful, divinely protected recovery. Babyboomer Europeans are angry at the Catholic Church. Millennial Europeans are so divorced from it that they find it an alien curiosity more than anything. This isn’t such a bad thing.

Maybe not in some Asian countries and African ones where there was traditionally barely any presence of the Catholic Church, but South America, Europe and North America are all getting less and less Catholic.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Yes and no. The more investigating that is done, the more dirt that is dug up sadly. Its too much. And the only time it begins to fix its errors is when its absolutely forced to and when the spotlight is on. Im not sure what to make of it myself. Sometimes the Church seems all politics to me.

I can sympathize with those who have broken away from the Church. Its a feeling of very deep betrayal, not something you can lightly brush off and put on them and says they were just looking for an excuse.

I think the public is measuring with two different measures here.

If you think the president is incompetent or evil, you seek change and support a better candidate. You don’t say, because the president is a bad-un, the entire democratic concept is rotten and I’m turning my back on it. If you get bad advice from an incompetent doctor in a hospital, you complain about that individual but don’t say all of medical science is looney. But if you hear about a priest who does something, even if it’s not a priest you know personally and you didn’t suffer any harm prsonally, you see that as a reason to turn your back on the Church. This seems deeply illogical to me.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

Fortunately, no it isn’t.

For Western Europe, and perhaps Germany in particular, you need to allow the reset button to set in. Once the Church in that corner of the world is perceived as being small enough to be non-threatening, which by and large has already happened, it can lick its wounds and experience a modest, slow, painful, divinely protected recovery. Babyboomer Europeans are angry at the Catholic Church. Millennial Europeans are so divorced from it that they find it an alien curiosity more than anything. This isn’t such a bad thing.

Most millenials I know have never been part of any church and are wholly afflicted by modernist thinking and the picture of the Church that trashy TV documentaries and leftist teachers put into their heads, parrotting such nonsense as the church is evil because the pope is rich and they mess with reproductive rights of women and won’t let Africans have condoms. I don’t see that sort of ignorance turning around very quickly. Those few who do develop a sense of spirituality are quickly sucked up by new-age stuff leaving very little ground that the Church can potentially expand into.

 

[randomusername]

Most millenials I know have never been part of any church and are wholly afflicted by modernist thinking and the picture of the Church that trashy TV documentaries and leftist teachers put into their heads, parrotting such nonsense as the church is evil because the pope is rich and they mess with reproductive rights of women and won’t let Africans have condoms. I don’t see that sort of ignorance turning around very quickly. Those few who do develop a sense of spirituality are quickly sucked up by new-age stuff leaving very little ground that the Church can potentially expand into.

And they think that the Church was horrible during the Dark Ages and kept people from knowledge even though it was the Church that preserved knowledge from the antiquity and the Church was a great patron of the arts in the Renaissance. The Church also invented the scientific method. But it would be inconvenient for people to admit that the Church has contributed a lot to science.

I think that in modern Europe the religion is Science. I may sound crazy but I’m serious. Scientists are almost revered as wise men of great knowledge and if something is branded as “Science” people think it must be true. Even if a scientific theory has no proof and requires tons of faith, people are still more likely to believe in it than religion because it’s “Science”. Secularism isn’t about freedom of religion, it’s about freedom from, and destruction of, religion. Secularism isn’t about keeping religion out of state and letting people choose their own religion, its about making people not believe in a religion. Secular education and culture is designed to encourage people to embrace pseudoscience and abandon all forms of faith and morals.

 

[Catholic_farmer]

The governments wish to dictate morals to the people, instead of the people following God and expecting the politicians to live up to those standards. When they avoid teaching philosophy and critical thinking in schools, the governments create generations of consumers ready to buy garbage they don’t need and believe that the government’s version of morality is the right version. “If it’s legal, it must be moral” is the modern mentality. We might think it’s based on science, but we are diluting ourselves. We stink at science here in the US. I hope they are doing better at teaching science in Europe.

 

[Cirdan_XII]

The governments wish to dictate morals to the people, instead of the people following God and expecting the politicians to live up to those standards. When they avoid teaching philosophy and critical thinking in schools, the governments create generations of consumers ready to buy garbage they don’t need and believe that the government’s version of morality is the right version. “If it’s legal, it must be moral” is the modern mentality. We might think it’s based on science, but we are diluting ourselves. We stink at science here in the US. I hope they are doing better at teaching science in Europe.

You’d be lucky.

On the contrary, science courses are being scaled back to create more time for diversity studies and worshiping the state. Our kids are learning stuff at uni such as differential calculus that we learnt at school and went to university alraedy taking for granted. Teaching is becoming more minimalistic every year. Some teachers already consider it a success if they can keep a semblance of discipline. Actually teaching something of value doesn’t come into it.

At the same time such clowns as Richard Dawkins are being given prime time TV to spout their nonsense. When they engage in a semblance of debate the TV networks always make sure he gets to debate some fundamentlist nitwit rather than a truly knowledgeable and debate experienced defender of religion. Even I could come up with more intelligent responses than they do, and I don’t even know much theology. Of course you look smart if you only get to debate only morons.

There is no real freedom of religion. On the contrary, we get to worship the state religion and its false saints and heroes. The state religion teaches political correctness and genuflecting before the values of the left. If you refuse to do that and stand apart from the mainstream, you are ostracised. You are told to shut up. The newspapers won’t publish your letters and forums delete your postings. That’s not freedom of religion or freedom of opinion, that is a forced administering of a false religion.

 

[MtnDwellar]

The only objective reason to reject a teaching is if the teaching is false.

 

[Tigg]

I see why it upsets people about scandals and controversy, but no where are you going to find a place without that. In my opinion people just use that as an excuse.

The Catholic Church is not just a “place.” Her mission is the salvation of souls and many believe she has lost all moral credibility, and yes, we would reasonably hope the clergy seek holiness. But those leaving, I suspect, left long ago when they deserted their faith.