Scared of speaking out Against Gay marriage?

[pianistclare]

Yes, no matter how much it hurts. I feel for you, but also feel so sad that this way of life is pushed to the forefront on tv and other media outlets. The children think it must be ok because everyone is doing it… Praying for you and our children…

thanks, the one memo they have received and accepted is abortion. They are all staunchly Pro-Life. Thanks be to God! Schools show those abortion videos and they are just grossed out by the whole thing, as well they should be.
Thanks for the prayers. All catechists appreciate it so much.

 

[fastenatingguy]

Clare,

Would you be willing to share any of your lesson plans with me on gay marriage and abortion? Those will be coming up in my 8th grade class in February.

Thank you,

FG

 

[pianistclare]

Clare,

Would you be willing to share any of your lesson plans with me on gay marriage and abortion? Those will be coming up in my 8th grade class in February.

Thank you,

FG

Sure. The church office is closed all week, but I will PM you over the weekend.
I have a powerpoint that you can use.
God bless!
Clare

 

[Pianofish]

I’ve never spoken up openly in my workplace, but there are a handful of people who know of my beliefs and know where I stand. One of those people happens to be a gay man that I work with. He understands we have differences and has never held it against me just as I’ve never held it against him that his current life choice is not something I agree with (he lives with his partner). I’ve also had a lengthy conversation with a gay colleague in grad school, and he challenged me but was respectful of my beliefs just as I was of his. Now that I think about it, these are the only two people who have had open conversations with me and never attacked me for my beliefs. Yet, I avoid such conversations with most of my heterosexual, gay right promoter friends /acquaintences because the conversation almost always leads to them trying to prove me wrong instead of just having a conversation for curiosity sake.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Perhaps because you rarely if at all directly engage pro-gay “marriage” posters on gay “marriage” and issues like the gay adoption of kids. You speak LGBT language very well and are on the frequent offensive against all things heteronormative. You may have on occasion stated gay sex is wrong, but are quick to excuse and would even promote gay romance as long as it does not technically fall under sodomy. Not to mention that you reserve cynicism and disdain only for heterosexual sins.
,

In real life I do in fact engage on topics like gay marriage. As to gay adoption my preferred solution is making sure all the kids get adopted by nice heterosexual couples leaving none for gay couples to adopt.

By being able to communicate with LGBT language it allows me to engage in civilized discourse devoid of acrimonious rants on either side. While I disagree with them on some matters it is clear that I am not their enemy and am genuinely concerned about their welfare.

I don’t promote gay romance, I note that it is possible for two people of the same sex to have a deep and loving relationship that is morally acceptable to the Church. To note such a thing does not compromise Church teaching in any way, it validates their feelings giving rapport and it reduces the distance between where they are and what we ask from insurmountable and unreasonable to doable and reasonable.

My deepest scorn is reserved for Pharisees which on this issue are overwhelmingly heterosexual and often blind to their own sins by hubris. I find it ridiculous when people rant about how LGBT is the PC way to say sodomite, that is because it is not theologically accurate to use sodomite as a synonym for homosexual acts and because it conflates temptation with sin which is heretical; I think we can agree that heresy is bad.

 

[WonderAndAwe]

Well, I can tell you as a Catechist of teens, it’s a touchy subject. We recently had a lesson on what the Church really teaches about people with SSA and the kids wigged out.
I mean, shouting at the catechists, making crazy accusations of hatred, asking things like
" How do YOU know what God wants anyway?"
“Gays are great because they adopt kids no one wants”
“Gays should be allowed to marry, I have gay friends and they are so cute!”
“What if there are gay people in the room? Don’t you think you’re offending them?”

Wow. Was a rough night.
People today have been led to believe that all Christians hate gays.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But this is why so few people even want to work with teenagers anymore.
But no, I’m not scared.
It’s not so much about being “against” gay marriage as teaching them that there is no such thing as marriage between the same sex. Marriage for many people has been redefined to suit. The church is pretty clear that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Young people have a hard time accepting this. In many cases, this is what tears them from the Church. It’s pretty sad.
But, one has to advance truth, no?

I hate teenagers. I hated being a teenager. I hate still being so close to my teenage years (I’m 20). Teenagers need to have it drilled into their skulls that they are inherently stupid and perpetually wrong. They need to resent their teenage years.
They sicken me so. Worthless, emotion-driven idiots ruining the future.

 

[John_of_Woking]

Well, I can tell you as a Catechist of teens, it’s a touchy subject. We recently had a lesson on what the Church really teaches about people with SSA and the kids wigged out.
I mean, shouting at the catechists, making crazy accusations of hatred, asking things like
" How do YOU know what God wants anyway?"
“Gays are great because they adopt kids no one wants”
“Gays should be allowed to marry, I have gay friends and they are so cute!”
“What if there are gay people in the room? Don’t you think you’re offending them?”

Wow. Was a rough night.
People today have been led to believe that all Christians hate gays.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But this is why so few people even want to work with teenagers anymore.
But no, I’m not scared.
It’s not so much about being “against” gay marriage as teaching them that there is no such thing as marriage between the same sex. Marriage for many people has been redefined to suit. The church is pretty clear that marriage is between a man and a woman.
Young people have a hard time accepting this. In many cases, this is what tears them from the Church. It’s pretty sad.
But, one has to advance truth, no?

Wow. A brave and courageous stance. Great post

 

[John_of_Woking]

I don’t hide my faith or my beliefs from anyone. I don’t shove them down everyone’s throats but if I get asked I state them with clarity and charity. It has cost me, I had a family member come out of the closet to me and I told them that I didn’t support it, but that they were family and my love for them remained unchanged. They then grew quite cold to me and stated I’d likely never see them again. I work for a major branch of the US Government, and no one has explicitly asked me about my beliefs yet on the subject, but I wear a crucifix on the outside of my work clothes so they can figure it out for themselves. If I ever were confronted I’ll be honest. If I lose my job, then I lose my job.

Definitely need to read the book “Making Gay OK”

The Gay Agenda is clear: Shut down freedom of speech and freedom of religion.

This. Very sad.

 

[Kaninchen]

Does anyone feel cowed by the peer pressure to support gay marriage. Do you feel you could lose your job of you spoke out against it? Do you feel you might lose friendships? Are you willing to be persecuted for standing up for Christ’s teaching on marriage?

Thoughts please. Any examples of you heroically defending Christ’s teaching on marriage at the workplace? Maybe you’ve had a ‘diversity’ course and have piped up?

Or maybe you have chickened out and rationalised not speaking up at the right time by falling back on the ‘throwing pearl to swines’ passage in Scriptures?

I expect that holders of all sorts of controversial views feel much the same way about airing their convictions in various circumstances.

 

[CatholicSheila]

This is one of those topics that doesn’t come up in the workplace here. I haven’t heard it raised in my current workplace, nor in any I’ve previously been in.

Would I state my opinion? It depends on who is listening. There are a few very anti-Christian people who I would keep my mouth shut around. They wouldn’t bother to listen to what I actually thing but rather make assumptions and assume I hate anyone who is LGBT.

There are others I wouldn’t hesitate to tell. Oddly, the gays are all in the latter group. They know I’m a conservative Catholic. I know they’re gay and don’t consider it a sin. We get along fine anyway. It is only straight folks around I keep my mouth shut.

Everyone knows I’m a conservative Catholic however, so it isn’t hidden.

 

[signit]

This is one of those topics that doesn’t come up in the workplace here. I haven’t heard it raised in my current workplace, nor in any I’ve previously been in.

Would I state my opinion? It depends on who is listening. There are a few very anti-Christian people who I would keep my mouth shut around. They wouldn’t bother to listen to what I actually thing but rather make assumptions and assume I hate anyone who is LGBT.

There are others I wouldn’t hesitate to tell. Oddly, the gays are all in the latter group. They know I’m a conservative Catholic. I know they’re gay and don’t consider it a sin. We get along fine anyway. It is only straight folks around I keep my mouth shut.

Everyone knows I’m a conservative Catholic however, so it isn’t hidden.

It’s never come up where I work, either, nor do I bring it up nor think I should bring it up.

I would not go up to the guy down the hall who displays the gay rights symbol and start telling him he’s wrong. At best he might say, “That’s your belief. I’m not a Catholic and I don’t believe what you believe.” In any event it wouldn’t be likely to change his mind.

 

[frobert]

Does anyone feel cowed by the peer pressure to support gay marriage. Do you feel you could lose your job of you spoke out against it? Do you feel you might lose friendships? Are you willing to be persecuted for standing up for Christ’s teaching on marriage?

Thoughts please. Any examples of you heroically defending Christ’s teaching on marriage at the workplace? Maybe you’ve had a ‘diversity’ course and have piped up?

Or maybe you have chickened out and rationalised not speaking up at the right time by falling back on the ‘throwing pearl to swines’ passage in Scriptures?

Where do you want to speak out about your anti-same sex marriage beliefs. We are all entitled to free speech but that does not mean that people will not refute your view.

What would be your purpose to speak out in such places as a workplace as opposed to a church or political rally. You need to use common sense.

It might be helpful for you to study how the spiritual and corporal works of mercy can help to show charity toward others.

 

[frobert]

Clare,

Would you be willing to share any of your lesson plans with me on gay marriage and abortion? Those will be coming up in my 8th grade class in February.

Thank you,

FG

Clare’s lesson plan may be excellent but she had problems executing it. You may wish to also consult with experienced teachers who are able to present emotional latent material without evoking disruption.

 

[kozlosap]

thanks, the one memo they have received and accepted is abortion. They are all staunchly Pro-Life. Thanks be to God! Schools show those abortion videos and they are just grossed out by the whole thing, as well they should be.
Thanks for the prayers. All catechists appreciate it so much.

First of all, thanks for working with teenagers! I love teenagers - I taught High school for 35 years. From my observations of the past fifteen years, there it’s a huge difference between the views of teens on abortion and their views and beliefs on LGBTQ people. They are able to see that abortion is the killing of another human, but it is not that simple with gay relationships.

Teenagers, in 2015 (!), have grown up (in the industrialized West) where they have brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles and friends that are gay. They know these people on a personal basis, not as some abstract group. When gay individuals came to the conclusion that the closet was not the best place to live and be productive then society was forced to come face to face with ignorance concerning those who have sexual orientations that are not “straight”. Trying to tell a fifteen year old that his uncle and the uncle’s partner, who have been together for 25 years in a loving relationship, are sodomites and going to hell is going to go over as well as playing 1950’s country music at their prom.

 

[jmcrae]

First of all, thanks for working with teenagers! I love teenagers - I taught High school for 35 years. From my observations of the past fifteen years, there it’s a huge difference between the views of teens on abortion and their views and beliefs on LGBTQ people. They are able to see that abortion is the killing of another human, but it is not that simple with gay relationships.

Teenagers, in 2015 (!), have grown up (in the industrialized West) where they have brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles and friends that are gay. They know these people on a personal basis, not as some abstract group. When gay individuals came to the conclusion that the closet was not the best place to live and be productive then society was forced to come face to face with ignorance concerning those who have sexual orientations that are not “straight”. Trying to tell a fifteen year old that his uncle and the uncle’s partner, who have been together for 25 years in a loving relationship, are sodomites and going to hell is going to go over as well as playing 1950’s country music at their prom.

I think it’s difficult for anyone at any age to get their head around the fact that someone they love could be wrong about something, or could be making poor choices. It feels like a kind of betrayal to say, “That’s a really bad idea; they really shouldn’t be doing that.”

 

[pianistclare]

Clare’s lesson plan may be excellent but she had problems executing it. You may wish to also consult with experienced teachers who are able to present emotional latent material without evoking disruption.

WHOA. You don’t even know me.
I am the DRE at the parish. Got years of experience, thanks for asking.
I didn’t have any problem executing it. The teens had a problem receiving the truth. They had already been indoctrinated by the Church of Popular Opinion. One has a moral obligation to teach the truth to those who are enrolled in a Catholic program. Whether or not they are well disposed to accepting it.
The pastor asked that the content be presented the way it was due to the suicide of a teen who was beaten by his father for being gay. People have no clue what the church says about everyone being a child of God. Especially kids who believe what the press says about Catholicism.

Thanks for your non-supportive, judgmental post.

 

[Cone]

These causes advance because people are afraid to take a stand. The gay activists know this and they exploit our weakness. But each of us will have to answer for God on what we did or didn’t do to protect the faith.

 

[Thorolfr]

My deepest scorn is reserved for Pharisees which on this issue are overwhelmingly heterosexual and often blind to their own sins by hubris. I find it ridiculous when people rant about how LGBT is the PC way to say sodomite, that is because it is not theologically accurate to use sodomite as a synonym for homosexual acts and because it conflates temptation with sin which is heretical; I think we can agree that heresy is bad.

In his book The Silence of Sodom: Homosexuality in Modern Catholicism (Univesity of Chicago Press, 2000), Washington University professor Mark Jordan makes a telling observation (pp. 45-46):

I have already noted that lesbigay Catholics frequently find themselves in the situation of being talked about rather than spoken to. Always our Children [which carries the subtitle *Pastoral Message to Parents of Homosexual Children and Suggestions for Pastoral Ministers

] is no exception. The letter speaks of parents and children. Though the letter explicitly acknowledges that the child in question may be an adult, it talks over the heads of the “child” to the parents.

Lesbian and gay Catholics frequently find that church documents speak as if there were none of them already in the church, especially in positions of church leadership. Always Our Children is no exception. The letter assumes that no Catholic parent could be lesbian or gay, as it pretends that no Catholic pastor has any personal acquaintance with gay cultures. It tells priests: “Welcome homosexual persons into the faith community.” As if they weren’t already there, presiding at the altar.

This always being talked about but rarely being spoken to is a common occurrence for LGBT people from many churches and many Christians can’t seem to refrain from talking about LGBT people in derogatory or condescending ways, using terms such as as “sodomites” or something similar.

 

[jmcrae]

Clare’s lesson plan may be excellent but she had problems executing it. You may wish to also consult with experienced teachers who are able to present emotional latent material without evoking disruption.

Emotional topics tend to “evoke disruption” if the students are paying attention.

Clearly, the teacher had their attention. That’s a good thing, in my opinion.

 

[John_of_Woking]

I wish we had more like pianistclare. The Truth will set those teens free. If only they will let Him !