Scheidler: Jenkins Remains Utterly Immovable on ND 88 Says talking to Jenkins about the issue like talking to a "stone"

[Havard]

Bottom line, Havard, is that Obama** received** an honorary degree** from Notre Dame.** Those who have the power and the authority to do so may or may not be representative, but it was ND that chose to honor BHO not just with a speaking engagement, but with a degree.

I don’t know the faith and politics of each and every student at ND, nor the faith and politics of the individual alumni. I don’t think that I would even need to know that to make the simple statement that Jenkins and ND chose to honor President Obama with a degree. The fact is that is exactly what happened.

If it came to a vote though, rather than an executive decision, it would seem that most American Catholics and most people in the region did vote for Barrack as president. He is representative in that way for sure.

So there you go. That is what even the numbers are telling us too.

The majority of Americans are also pro-life, however plenty are evidently grossly uninformed, or do not possess what we curiously call ‘common sense.’

Either way, I refuse to accept that either ND or America is pro-abortion. I will not sit by and acknowledge incompetent representatives as speaking for me or my community. These people do not speak for me.

 

[Darryl1958]

The majority of Americans are also pro-life, however plenty are evidently grossly uninformed, or do not possess what we curiously call ‘common sense.’

Either way, I refuse to accept that either ND or America is pro-abortion. I will not sit by and acknowledge incompetent representatives as speaking for me or my community. These people do not speak for me.

It does not matter if they do not speak for you or I. They do speak for Notre Dame, and therefore you were, quite frankly, wrong to correct me on that account.

It is a small point, but ND did in fact give Obama a honorary degree, as if his record on the one political issue that the Catholic teaches us is critical today.

50 million American lives given to abortion since 1973, and the priest(mentioned in your link) is the one who gets the slack by more than a few people here, on what is one of the more traditionally Catholic boards out there.

That is just the way it is. More than a few people choose to see that the 50 million are really not Weslin’s concern, but that it is only about his theatrics and criminal trespass. The issue is for them that these people were making a scene, and being obnoxious, and that is the main issue.
Isn’t that how the thread reads? Please, correct me again, if I am wrong. Show me the error of my ways.

I, for one disagree. It would seem to me that me that if the message of the Church on the sacredness of life is fully absorbed, then even if the protests of a Father Weslin bordered on hysterics or foolishness, isn’t that kind of expression not normal of one who grieves for 50 million?
On the contrary, the lack of frantic behavior is what comes off as rather cold—*if *the Catholci teaching is to fully believed.

I am not wrong to note that ND in fact did honor Obama and dishonor the priest and the other 87. I am not wrong to note either that in a country where a majority of people are pro-life, around 50 million lives have been snuffed out before they began.

I am sorry that I have offended. Really, I wish I was wrong, but I am not.

 

[Havard]

What I’m trying to say is that Father Jenkins (and related trustees and administrators) may be official representatives of the Notre Dame community, but the decision in question (to choose a pro-choice honoree) made was made without the backing of the people they supposedly represent.

So in the technical sense, yes, they do represent us. But in the substantive sense, they acted of their own accord, and the ND community is not pleased. All I ask is that the ND community be regarded for what it is, the majority of which are in agreement that pro-choice individuals should never be honored.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

In contrast, the ND88 who actually choose to express their personal views against this seeming travesty are mocked as being out of line.

I mock the post-arrest whining. Man up and take your medicine.

Or continue the protest while doing community service.

But this blaming the ND president for not dropping the charges is misplaced.

 

[Darryl1958]

I just feel it was a little unfair of you to single me out for correction on that point, that’s all. I was not the one stating that ND is a private institution, and that therefore is all that matters in this simple case of criminal trespass.

On the contrary, to the extent that Notre Dame wears the name of our lady, the issue of private trespass is the smallest of concerns here in this matter of the 88.

it is just curious then why you feel that I was the one who needed to be corrected here.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

On the contrary, to the extent that Notre Dame wears the name of our lady, the issue of private trespass is the smallest of concerns here in this matter of the 88.

Then, why are the charges still pending? And why are folks still discussing the charges?

 

[AnotherVoice]

Then, why are the charges still pending? And why are folks still discussing the charges?

There is no reason why the demonstrators would want to conclude this quickly. They are not being injured by this process being elongated; in fact their message is being repeated over and over and they are gaining public support. More people are hearing about this, watching the video clips and speaking out in favor of the demonstrators.

From a PR perspective it would be in Notre Dame’s best interest to seek a quick closure to this. I don’t understand why the administration has not moved to drop these charges or at least intercede on behalf of the protesters.

 

[Darryl1958]

Then, why are the charges still pending? And why are folks still discussing the charges?

The charges are still pending because Father Jenkins has hardened his heart and chooses not to let the issue go.
People are still discussing the charges because the charges are still pending, schisming the American Catholic community as a result.

It is a sad state of affairs, but the ugly truth is that this issue amply demonstrates that there is no ‘we’ when it comes to Catholics. Father Jenkins behavior demonstrates that he has some especially sharp knives for the backs of Catholics who are most fervent on the issue, and that not just a few Catholics see him as totally justified in using them to the hilt.

That is why.

 

[Darryl1958]

The largest of concerns is not the trespass of course, but the rampant acceptance of ‘pro-choice’ among Catholics. In a country that has seen 50 million unborn deaths since 1973,statistically speaking, the attitudes of Catholics are identical to those of the society at large.
That is what the continued discussion elucidates most clearly.

 

[RobbyS]

There is no reason why the demonstrators would want to conclude this quickly. They are not being injured by this process being elongated; in fact their message is being repeated over and over and they are gaining public support. More people are hearing about this, watching the video clips and speaking out in favor of the demonstrators.

From a PR perspective it would be in Notre Dame’s best interest to seek a quick closure to this. I don’t understand why the administration has not moved to drop these charges or at least intercede on behalf of the protesters.

Notre Dame wants to be perceived as “moderate” on the issue.

 

[RobbyS]

What I’m trying to say is that Father Jenkins (and related trustees and administrators) may be official representatives of the Notre Dame community, but the decision in question (to choose a pro-choice honoree) made was made without the backing of the people they supposedly represent.

So in the technical sense, yes, they do represent us. But in the substantive sense, they acted of their own accord, and the ND community is not pleased. All I ask is that the ND community be regarded for what it is, the majority of which are in agreement that pro-choice individuals should never be honored.

Those who run Notre Dame are members of the “elite.” They feel they have “arrived” at the top of American society and do not wish to jeopardize that position. They are a bit like those who ran Harvard when Bill Buckley was there.

 

[RobbyS]

The charges are still pending because Father Jenkins has hardened his heart and chooses not to let the issue go.
People are still discussing the charges because the charges are still pending, schisming the American Catholic community as a result.

It is a sad state of affairs, but the ugly truth is that this issue amply demonstrates that there is no ‘we’ when it comes to Catholics. Father Jenkins behavior demonstrates that he has some especially sharp knives for the backs of Catholics who are most fervent on the issue, and that not just a few Catholics see him as totally justified in using them to the hilt.

That is why.

Part of the problem is that liberal Catholics, such as Father Hesburgh , thought until Pope John Paul Ii ascended the papal thrown, that THEY were the WE. He would be shocked if someone told him that in thirty years his opinions would be those of a faction rather than the majority.

 

[reggieM]

Those who run Notre Dame are members of the “elite.” They feel they have “arrived” at the top of American society and do not wish to jeopardize that position. They are a bit like those who ran Harvard when Bill Buckley was there.

That is an excellent point, and something very important for us all to think about on a wider scale than just what happens at ND (which is just one example of the problem).

“Affluence” has a kind of addictive property. It affected the Catholic world in the U.S. in a very big way.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

Those who run Notre Dame are members of the “elite.” They feel they have “arrived” at the top of American society and do not wish to jeopardize that position. They are a bit like those who ran Harvard when Bill Buckley was there.

Not to quibble, but I think Buckley went to Yale. Remember his: “God and Man at Yale”?