B
Bob4BVM
Guest
Very well said, Della !When the Epistles of Paul were written compared to the Gospels is open to debate by many scholars. But, that’s not the point here, is it? Paul did not ignore Mary in the sense you mean. St. Paul’s letters were written to specific persons for specifics reasons. For the most part he was trying to correct misunderstandings and fend off attempts to make Gentile Christians into some kind of extended Judaic people. As I wrote, Mary wasn’t his focus. It matters not at all how many letters he wrote. Mary’s place in our salvation is unique no matter who wrote about her and who didn’t. It’s irrelevant.
I think you need to re-read the Gospels. Mary appears much more than you are indicating here. Luke in particular tells us quite a bit about her. Some time meditating on her role in his Gospel might be helpful to you.
I’m afraid the whole context, understood as they were understood for centuries before the Reformation (and even long after) doesn’t support your ideas here. It wasn’t until quite recent times that these passages were looked on as any kind of dismissive attitude on Jesus’ part. Luther and Calvin certainly didn’t have any such idea. It was only when certain sacraments were rejected by off-shoots of the major Protestant denominations that people rejected the traditional understanding of the relationship between Jesus and Mary. There have been several threads on the passages you cited on CAF–almost too many to count. And there are well-written articles on the topic in CA’s library. I suggest you read them to understand Catholic thinking here.
As to going just to God, that’s not really true, you know.All of us go to many others for support and prayers. No one is a Lone Ranger for God. Jesus established a Church that is made up of us living on earth and those who have gone before us (they aren’t cut off from us by death). Those in heaven pray for us–they’re a part of the family Jesus was talking about in the passage you cited. Jesus himself told us that God is the God of the living not the dead (cf. Mt. 22:32, Mk. 12:27, & Lk. 20:38). Mary is one of those who help us with their prayers. And I don’t know about you, but I will take all the help I can get.
No. The honor given to Mary by the things you cited are called hyperdulia, which means “exalted honor”. Mary is given this because of her unique position as the Mother of God or Theotokos (Council of Ephesus 431). Our personal distaste for things we don’t understand should never stand in the way of learning what those things actually are and what they can mean for us.
Especially that last line !
My only question here is WHY do people find it so necessary to find fault with a healthy devotion (ie. loving relationship) with Mary ?
Like SO MANY other things discussed here, there seems to be a need to discount everything Catholics believe. Need I mention that ALL Christians SHARED these beliefs before the Reformation. ?
Does anyone doubt that ?
Allow me quote Martin Luther on the Blessed Virgin Mary. …
“…She, the lady above Heaven and earth, must have a heart so humble, that she would have no shame in washing the swaddling clothes or preparing a bath for St. John the Baptist, like a servant girl. What humility. Surely it would have been more just to arrange for her a golden coach, pulled by 4000 horses. And to cry and proclaim as the carriage proceeded, here passes the woman who was raised above the whole human race. She was not filled with pride by this praise, this immense praise.”
“…No woman is like unto thee, thou art more than an empress or a queen. Blessed above all nobility, wisdom, or saintliness.”
Luther wrote these comments, not while he was a Catholic, but years after he left the Church, shortly before his death in 1546.
I’d guess that Luther is shaking his head at how some people view the Blessed Virgin these days.
Please be honest with yourself—is it justice, to reject something, just because it seems ’ too Catholic’ ? Even in my pre-Catholic days, I would have to seriously question the motives of any person or group doing such.
Regarding the many references to Marian apparitions people have made here, all I can say is if you haven’t been there , with an open heart, you have no idea of what is possible if it is God’s Will. There is SO much misinformation on this topic out there…I sense a pretty strong inclination that in general our society HOPES that these events are not true, that God would NOT intervene in our history. Hmmm, I wonder why ?
To discount the possibility of apparitions out-of-hand, is to put restrictions on what God can or cannot do in His creation. Acts Ch.5 says:
v38 :So now I tell you, have nothing to do with these men, and let them go. For if this endeavor or this activity is of human origin, it will destroy itself.
v39 :But if it comes from God, you will not be able to destroy them; you may even find yourselves fighting against God."
+Peace,
Bob
“There are not a hundred people who hate the Catholic church, but there are millions who hate what they think the Catholic church to be” --Bishop Fulton Sheen