"Scholars have found that over 75% of rites and ceremonies practiced by the Roman Catholic church are of pagan origin..."

[NotWorthy]

When Jesus the head of the Body, asended to the father, shortly after the holy spirit showed up he moved upon the disciples normal everyday men in a mighty tremendous way so much so that when Peter a disciple of Jesus preached filled with the spirit 3000 people responded and where added to the Kingdom of God, and this became a trend 1000’s were being added to thew kingdom and the romans yes killed these true christians not Catholics, Christians but they continued to grow in number and so if you can’t feed them to the Lions, Join them, so the Romans being enemy’s of the Christian movement, embraced it so as to control it. makes sense, thank you

When Constantine legalized Catholicism, the Roman empire was 10% Catholic. That’s not exactly a vast majority.

He did try to control the church, you are correct there. But the key word is TRY.

 

[NotWorthy]

YOU CAN’T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM, AN AS THE GOVERNMENT TAKE AWAY THERE THREAT FROM WITHIN, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ARE SOCIALLY DRIVEN NOT SPIRIT DRIVEN. THEIR PLAN (THE ROMANS) WORKED, PEOPLE BELIEVE MORE IN THE READINGS OF THEIR CHURCH FATHERS? THEN THEY DO THE BIBLE, WOW THOSE ROMANS WERE SMART…

Socially driven, not spirit driven, eh? Wow, have you read any of the writings of the Church? Each post of yours is proven that you haven’t.

Also, I’m curious if you’ve read the Gospels. Jesus’ teachings were rather socially conscious, if you asked me. Spiritual, too, of course! But also very socially conscious!

 

[Mannyfit75]

When Constantine legalized Catholicism, the Roman empire was 10% Catholic. That’s not exactly a vast majority.

He did try to control the church, you are correct there. But the key word is TRY.

He issued the Eddict of Milan in 316 AD that ended Christian persecution. There was already an established Church then and it was Catholic Church.

I had posted that St. Ignatius first use the word Catholic Church in 110 AD, so by the time of Emperor Constantine, there was organized Church established.

 

[Catolico_Ako]

A member of an online community which I am a member of made this remark. Besides the fact that the high number is probably complete bunk… Admittedly there are aspects of earlier faiths which the Church has incorporated for the sake of its new believers. What should I say to this person, and people in general, who make the claim that the Church is ‘polluted’ with Pagan elements?

We do a lot of rites and ceremonies such as: graduation ceremony, flag ceremony, changing clothes (looking at the mirror), and going to the bathroom, to name a few.

 

[zackonattack]

I’m a Soldier. points location Second, not all Soldiers kill. There are Soldiers who do administrative work which does not involving killing.

Second, US Soldiers or Marines do not kill out of necessity. They fight mainly for self-defense. When offensive operations are taken, they do so because the target is hostile (eg. terrorists).

I do find some of your comments about generalizing soldiers or any service member offensive and extremely bias. I would be careful what you say about us.

For without us, there were be another terrorist attack far worst than the Sept 11, 2001 attack.

Sir, you misread what I stated. I was actually DEFENDING christians in the military. I said I hate war and the adults that fight in them should be arrested for child abuse. The ideal is no war, but, alas, we don’t live in a ideal world. And I wasn’t thinking about American soliders (although i’m sure there are some that engage in gross misconduct) but was referring to the mess in Dufar (Africia) and the mess going on.
Sorry you are “offended” but so be it. I’m offended every day by what some people say or do, but I’m a big boy and I go on with life. So get over it, please.

How do you find my comments about war biased? Most military people I know hate war. War is hell and most generals will tell you that. And what do you mean most marines don’t kill out of “necessity.”

I’m a great supporter of the American military and the job they do. I had many friends that served in Vietnam and saw what they went through when they came back from that place. That’s why whenever I talk to a military person I thank them for the service they are doing. I talk to soldiers every day in the job I do. So, you misread my statements. Are you on active military right now? If so, thank you for your service.

 

[NotWorthy]

He issued the Eddict of Milan in 316 AD that ended Christian persecution. There was already an established Church then and it was Catholic Church.

I had posted that St. Ignatius first use the word Catholic Church in 110 AD, so by the time of Emperor Constantine, there was organized Church established.

OK, that’s the same thing as saying he legalized Catholicism. Yes, the Catholic Church was there the whole time, no argument. But he made it where Christians could gather without fear of Roman persecution. Although they were still persecuted after Constantine’s death. I believe his sons were tough on the Church as well.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Sir, you misread what I stated. I was actually DEFENDING christians in the military. I said I hate war and the adults that fight in them should be arrested for child abuse. The ideal is no war, but, alas, we don’t live in a ideal world. And I wasn’t thinking about American soliders (although i’m sure there are some that engage in gross misconduct) but was referring to the mess in Dufar (Africia) and the mess going on.
Sorry you are “offended” but so be it. I’m offended every day by what some people say or do, but I’m a big boy and I go on with life. So get over it, please.

How do you find my comments about war biased? Most military people I know hate war. War is hell and most generals will tell you that. And what do you mean most marines don’t kill out of “necessity.”

I’m a great supporter of the American military and the job they do. I had many friends that served in Vietnam and saw what they went through when they came back from that place. That’s why whenever I talk to a military person I thank them for the service they are doing. I talk to soldiers every day in the job I do. So, you misread my statements. Are you on active military right now? If so, thank you for your service.

Apologize accepted. I apologize for reading your post out of context. Yes, I am active Army, enlisted and discerning the priesthood.

 

[Mannyfit75]

OK, that’s the same thing as saying he legalized Catholicism. Yes, the Catholic Church was there the whole time, no argument. But he made it where Christians could gather without fear of Roman persecution. Although they were still persecuted after Constantine’s death. I believe his sons were tough on the Church as well.

Does the Eddict of Milan say it legalized Christianity? I only read that it ended Christian persecution not legalizing it as a an official religion of the Empire.

 

[NotWorthy]

Sir, you misread what I stated. I was actually DEFENDING christians in the military. I said I hate war and the adults that fight in them should be arrested for child abuse.

It sounds like Manny read your comments pretty accurate. I think maybe you mis-stated your position. My dad fought in a war, Manny (I assume) is fighting in a war. It sounds like you say they both should be arrested for child abuse.

The ideal is no war, but, alas, we don’t live in a ideal world. And I wasn’t thinking about American soliders (although i’m sure there are some that engage in gross misconduct) but was referring to the mess in Dufar (Africia) and the mess going on.
Sorry you are “offended” but so be it. I’m offended every day by what some people say or do, but I’m a big boy and I go on with life. So get over it, please.

I find your words offensive. I might not be offended because it is your problem, not mine. But I do find your choice of words very offensive.

How do you find my comments about war biased? Most military people I know hate war. War is hell and most generals will tell you that. And what do you mean most marines don’t kill out of “necessity.”

Most military people I know think of war as a necessary hell.

I’m a great supporter of the American military and the job they do. I had many friends that served in Vietnam and saw what they went through when they came back from that place. That’s why whenever I talk to a military person I thank them for the service they are doing. I talk to soldiers every day in the job I do. So, you misread my statements. Are you on active military right now? If so, thank you for your service.

If you were a great supporter of the American military, then you may want to choose your words more wisely, instead of simply brushing it off with “Get over it”.

Your words are not in concordance with your tone.

 

[NotWorthy]

Does the Eddict of Milan say it legalized Christianity? I only read that it ended Christian persecution not legalizing it as a an official religion of the Empire.

There is a difference between legalizing it and making it the official religion.

The edict of Milan did not make it the official state religion, it just made Catholicism a legal religion. By legal, I mean to say it was not banned as it was prior to that.

 

[zackonattack]

Apologize accepted. I apologize for reading your post out of context. Yes, I am active Army, enlisted and discerning the priesthood.

Keep on keeping on. God knows we need GOOD, orthodox, Priests. Now, when you go into a parish you are taking your life in your hands. You never know what type of theology you are going to run in to, until the priest opens his mouth. So, be a Priest, and be a faithful one, one that follows the teaching of the church, not one that wants to do their own thing. We have plenty of those and they do not impress. The ones that impress are the ones that really BELIEVE what the bible says, follows the teaching of the church, loves people, is kind, considerate, understanding and would not want to be anything else. Wow, what a list. Bless you my man.

 

[Church_Militant]

When Jesus the head of the Body, asended to the father, shortly after the holy spirit showed up he moved upon the disciples normal everyday men in a mighty tremendous way so much so that when Peter a disciple of Jesus preached filled with the spirit 3000 people responded and where added to the Kingdom of God, and this became a trend 1000’s were being added to thew kingdom and the romans yes killed these true christians not Catholics, Christians but they continued to grow in number and so if you can’t feed them to the Lions, Join them, so the Romans being enemy’s of the Christian movement, embraced it so as to control it. makes sense, thank you

And just how many of the early church guys who paid the ultimate price for the faith have you read? In 2,000 years of history there is a pretty substantial quantity of writings by those early believers and martyrs.

How many have you read?

YOU CAN’T BEAT THEM JOIN THEM, AN AS THE GOVERNMENT TAKE AWAY THERE THREAT FROM WITHIN, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH ARE SOCIALLY DRIVEN NOT SPIRIT DRIVEN. THEIR PLAN (THE ROMANS) WORKED, PEOPLE BELIEVE MORE IN THE READINGS OF THEIR CHURCH FATHERS? THEN THEY DO THE BIBLE, WOW THOSE ROMANS WERE SMART…

Don’t shout…it’s rude.

You cannot prove this from the New Testament and from the writings of the early church. This is rhetorical propaganda without historical substance.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The Isis argument is absurd because buy the time Jesus was born, the worship of Isis was fragmented and decaying. It took many forms, but all were declining and had been for a long time.
The Mithra argument is just silly. There were two cults of Mithra. The Persian one, which was older than Christianity but younger than the Jewish prophecies about Christ, saw Mithra as a man born of a rock who rowed the boat in which the sun rode. There is no evidence of any communal meal, sacrifice, death (never mind resurrection), companions, virgin, or any other Christian-sounding elements. It died out long before the Roman Empire started to grow. The second, which is first recorded in the mid- to late second century AD, was a small, strictly military, male-only cult, Its elements and practices were a closely kept secret. The soldiers were the most dreaded and shunned enemies of the Christians. Christians could not be persuaded to adopt Mithraic practices. Anyway, it first developed the communal meal and the ritual of baptism (by walking under a bleeding bull) and all the other Christianlike elements in the third to fifth centuries AD. By then, Christian practice was well-established, strongly suggesting it was the remaining Mithraists in the army who copied Christians.

That is what is so curious - the argument is always that Christians copied pagans: that the borrowing was always in that direction & never the other, is never questioned.​

Quite apart from the possibility of Jewish influence on either or both; & of either or both on it.

Not to mention the far more complicated picture that emerges once one takes account of

• Christianity
• various Christian or semi-Christian sects & heresies
• Judaism
• the Samaritans
• a host of localised cults of various kinds
• as well as of the official religion of the City of Rome
• & of what remained of the ancient religion of Egypt (the usual text-book date for its death is 532, when the temple of Isis at Philae was finally closed; it was not open for the benefit of Christians)
• not to mention religions outside the Empire - as in Armenia, & Persia
  (Armenia is the oldest Christian country in the world; & there were plenty of Christians in Persia: many of whom suffered death rather than save their lives by becoming fire-worshippers.)

It may be simple to account for seeming or real similarities between pagans & Christians by ascribing them to pagan influence on Christians - but “simple” does not necessarily =///= “accurate”.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Can you please refrain from using CAP locks, they are consider rude.

And blocks of text that LOOK LIKE THIS AND GO ON FOR SEVERAL MORE LINES, are not very easy on the eye; I don’t why that is, but they aren’t - even though they are MARGINALLYBETTERTHANTEXTWRITTENTOLOOKLIKE​

THIS - which is intolerable

 

[zackonattack]

It sounds like Manny read your comments pretty accurate. I think maybe you mis-stated your position. My dad fought in a war, Manny (I assume) is fighting in a war. It sounds like you say they both should be arrested for child abuse.

I find your words offensive. I might not be offended because it is your problem, not mine. But I do find your choice of words very offensive.

Most military people I know think of war as a necessary hell.

If you were a great supporter of the American military, then you may want to choose your words more wisely, instead of simply brushing it off with “Get over it”.

Your words are not in concordance with your tone.

when I say get over it, I’m speaking generally to the people who are “offended” by everything. You know the type, the poor, pitful little victim. Instead of a debate, one gets hung up on being politically correct. Like I said, I’m offended by a lot by what some people say and do, but I get on with it. I don’t take it personally. I’ve been called every name in the book for being a fundamental christian. So what!! Have at it. Be my guest. Insult all you want. It makes no difference to be whatsoever. I know what I believe and why. Take your best shot.

 

[kentuckyliz]

In response to thread title:

Oh, I didn’t know Jesus was a pagan!

 

[Mannyfit75]

In response to thread title:

Oh, I didn’t know Jesus was a pagan!

He is actually the God of wine because he turn water into wine. He is the Son of Zeus, or Jupiter. :banghead:

Of course what I wrote about him being the Son of Zeus is false. Jesus is the Son of the Living God.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

OK, that’s the same thing as saying he legalized Catholicism. Yes, the Catholic Church was there the whole time, no argument. But he made it where Christians could gather without fear of Roman persecution. Although they were still persecuted after Constantine’s death. I believe his sons were tough on the Church as well.

There were three of them -Constantius (337-61) was the Arianiser, his brothers being Constans & Constantine II.​

For reliable info about Constantine & his sons: roman-emperors.org/impindex.htm

**Constantine I **306-337

333/334 Calocaerus

337-340 Constantine II
337-350 Constans I
337-361 Constantius II

350-353 Magnentius
350 Nepotian
350 Vetranio
355 Silvanus

The others on the list are usurpers & anti-Emperors.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Does the Eddict of Milan say it legalized Christianity? I only read that it ended Christian persecution not legalizing it as a an official religion of the Empire.

It gave Christianity the status in law enjoyed by Judaism in the Empire, that of being a religio licita, which can be translated “lawful cult”. It was thereby made legal for adherents of Christianity to observe their religious rites - it gave them freedom to do so without being haled before the courts; but it did not make the religio of the Christians into the state cult; the status of the “state religion”, was unaffected by the “Edict” (which is not an edict at all, despite the popular name, but a rescript)​

And because the religion of the Roman state & City was not affected, it is completely wrong to say that Constantine - or his fellow-Emperor in the East, Licinius - ever made Christianity the religion of Rome itself, or of the Empire as a whole.

Christians enjoyed certain liberties - but their religio was no more made that of Rome, let alone of the Empire, than that of the Jews was. Catholic Christianity was given official status in place of the religion of the City of Rome only in 382, under Theodosius I (379-95).

What Constantine did do was to found Constantinople in 330, as a Christian city - which is one of the reasons that the Rome ceased to be the city of the Emperors, & eventually became the city of its Bishops. But the period after 306 to 410 is very complicated

 

[NotWorthy]

OK, evidently, we’re both going to end up agreeing not to be offended by each other. With that being said:

when I say get over it, I’m speaking generally to the people who are “offended” by everything. You know the type, the poor, pitful little victim. Instead of a debate, one gets hung up on being politically correct.

I don’t think soldiers dealing with accusations of child abuse, simply because they are soldiers, doesn’t put them in the same category as the clowns that get offended because their cause didn’t get the respect they mistakenly think it deserves.

Like I said, I’m offended by a lot by what some people say and do, but I get on with it. I don’t take it personally. I’ve been called every name in the book for being a fundamental christian. So what!! Have at it. Be my guest. Insult all you want. It makes no difference to be whatsoever. I know what I believe and why. Take your best shot.

I’m not here to insult you. I just think If I said something that legitimately insulted someone, and I didn’t intend to cause that effect, then I would be generally sorry.

“Get over it” would not be in my apology.

If I said something that was misconstrued by someone with a chip on their shoulder, “Get over it” would certainly come to mind.

Now, maybe we can get back to the thread. If you have problems with what I typed, feel free to air your opinions by PM.

P.S. I would have preferred to PM you with this message, but evidently you are not accepting PM’s. Again, you might want to turn it on if you wish to continue this discussion.