Scholars raise concerns over Pope Francis remarks on how doctrine develops

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Your post makes absolutely no sense according to the CCC that I read.

The CCC uses the word legitimate many times in its descriptions of moral defense.

ISIS is not a legitimate civil authority. Saudi Arabia might qualify as a legitimate civil authority, but they don’t execute Jews and Christians. The N. Korean regime is so shrouded in secrecy that not many entities can make very good judgments about their state executions, but suffice it to say that many are simply murder, and have no comparable aspects to the CCC treatment on the death penalty. Neither did the Third Reich have anything worth comparing in the CCC’s treatment about anything other than murder.
 
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What I consider unjust is keeping people in solitary prison for decades, to the point where prisoners who went in not having mental illness - develop mental illness. Many who come out end up having life long issues. Those who cannot be in a regular prison with other inmates peacefully often go to solitary confinement. It is also mostly resolved for those who committed murder. Would it be more just to practically torture them by isolation to keep others safe, or to execute them? I have pondered over this and still haven’t come to a conclusion.

I do think, however, that the death penalty is needed in other places where prison security isn’t as great.
 
Lets leave the heavy lifting to the big boys rather than murmur pointlessly.
 
Spyridon said:
To claim you are “pro life” yet support the death penalty is to entirely miss the point of being pro life. Pro life does not mean you simply support what you judge to be “innocent” life - it means supporting, upholding, and protecting all Life, PERIOD.

I take this concept so far as to even apply it to insects - if I see a beetle or a spider, I will do my best to transport it outside instead of taking its life. I am vehemently pro life - which means I am anti death penalty, anti abortion, anti euthanasia, pro animal rights, pro conservation of wildlife and nature, etc. Life in any and all forms must be protected at all costs.
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No, pro life doesn’t mean that at all. It means opposed to abortion. If you really take it to mean you must not kill all life then you couldn’t kill plants either. If you can’t kill animals, bugs or plants you will have no food sources and your life will end. If you have a duty to protect all life that would include yours. Since your life clearly depends on taking the life of other things pro life clearly can’t mean what you say it does. Death and killing and consuming other living things is actually part of life.
 
For Catholics pro-life means defending all human life from conception to its natural end.
 
Including one’s own and the lives of others - which defence then becomes a source of threat to another’s life, be it through self-defense, war or capital punishment.
 
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Good point.

At what point is the death penalty more merciful than long term solitary confinement?
 
Please dont misconstrue my words or read into them things i didn’t say.

I’m an omnivore, not a vegan. I never said its wrong to kill for food or self defense, I said life is precious and should not be wantonly stamped out - if an ant can be as easily transported to the grass as it can be squished, why not let it live?
 
What negative consequences could ambolishing the death penalty have? If you think that the death penalty reduces certain types of violent crime, I would like to see the proof.
 
I understand that, but the pro life movement itself appears hypocritical when you have people standing outside of a abortion clinic screaming hail Marys one minute, and standing at a prison screaming for blood the next

One of the most common arguments against the pro life movement is the fact many of them support capital punishment - a fact which, IMO, is rightly construed as hypocrisy.

And keep in mind Im talking about capital punishment in the western world - not just war, not self defense, not capital punishment in the developing world - those are all different issues where killing can be a good thing even.
 
I can’t imagine any really.

Think of this too: if 1 out of every 1000 condemned who are executed was truly innocent, shouldnt that be reason enough to abolish the death penalty? The real number is much higher - as high as 1 out of every 25 in Texas.
 
I don’t think ants are precious. There are lots of them. They get squished or otherwise killed all the time. I don’t think it isn’t worth worrying about an ant anymore than I worry about stepping on grass or killing bacteria by washing my hands.
 
God is the Giver and Governor of Life - physical life on Earth is a blessing and a loan from God. As such, he reserves the right to revoke life at any time he deems fit.
 
I think Creation is precious. Rocks and dirt are precious. Ants and spiders are precious.

Maybe I’m a Fransican at heart.
 
St. Thomas Aquinas has said,
Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community, on account of some sin, it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good . . . . ST IIa-IIae, q. 64, a. 2.

It is permissible to kill a criminal if this is necessary for the welfare of the whole community. However, this right belongs only to the one entrusted with the care of the whole community – just as a doctor may cut off an infected limb, since he has been entrusted with the care of the health of the whole body. ST IIa-IIae, q. 64, a. 3.
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In my humble opinion, I do not think that the death penalty is needed in areas where security is good. I think that every soul should be given the most time possible in order to find repentance.

I also think solitary confinement can cause severe harm on individuals. I recently watched a documentary where those in solitary confinement were allowed out for awhile in chains to work with the other inmates. But they were confined to their cell for the rest of the 23 hours of the day. I don’t understand this. Why can’t they be allowed more time out of their cell to at least socialize? They are chained up anyway.

The cells they are confined too are also inhumane. They are the size of a small bathroom. They are allowed only a small frosted window. The florescent lights light up their small room 24/7. They never go off. I can imagine they don’t sleep very well.
 
No arguments from me there.

I think the US Prison system can learn a lot from say the Norse prison system (aside from the ridiculous sentences - you can murder 10 people and be out of prison in a couple decades - that’s not just.)

We need to move way further on the spectrum away from retribution and punishment and towards secure confinement and rehabilitation
 
Yes, absolutely. Those who have been in solitary for decades often say they feel worse than they did before. They say they have a lot of anger. That can’t be constructive.

I think a life similar to those in religious communities could be good. Set schedules, owning just the necessities, being able to work your way up to be a better person, etc.
 
I agree in a sense that all of creation is precious. But some created things are more valuable than others. Everything can’t be equally precious. Creation is for man not for the ants and spiders. We should care for the Earth but I don’t think that means trying to protect every ant or spider or blade of grass.
 
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