School closing, parents protestIng

[HouseArrest]

I don’t like the attitude according to which “let’s not even fight for school vouchers because then Catholic schools will be overrun with bad Catholics, disobedient Catholics, problem kids, and Muslims”.

Bottom line is this: money talks, but it’s very un-Catholic to treat Catholic schools like an exclusive club for rich people.

Bad Catholics, disobedient Catholics, problem kids, and Muslims are already present in the Catholic schools today - as long as they can afford to pay the tuition fees.

The absence of school vouchers is NOT a barrier against bad and disobedient Catholics, problem kids, and Muslims enrolling in Catholic schools - however it is a barrier for keeping the poor people away, and keeping Catholic schools as the wealthy people’s (both wealthy Catholics’ and non-Catholics’) exclusive club. If you can afford to pay twice (first through state taxes for public schools, second through tuition for your kid in the Catholic school), you are in. You are in, even if your kid is a problem child or Muslim, even if you are a bad and disobedient Catholic. However if you don’t have that kind of money, i.e. if you can’t pay tuition in the private school after the state already deducted $$ from your paycheck/real estate taxes for the public schools - you are out. And your kid is out, no matter how well-behaved, hard-working, and disciplined your kid is.

So, let’s cut through the baloney - this is a wealthy people’s club, and many parents want to keep it exactly that way. They don’t want the “riff-raff” and the “Catholic trash” to mix with their wealthy kids. But this is not compatible with Catholic social teaching. I am for school vouchers, precisely so that poor Catholics can also get an opportunity to attend Catholic schools if they want to.

Kinda. I know of plenty K-8 schools that are not full of the wealthy. Ours is one, and I remember several from when I lived in the Baltimore area. They are not the schools with the acreage and the impressive looking front gate and long drive.

With that being said I think that some people are shut out because any amount of tuition is probably too much. Vouchers would help these people.

In my experience, I know people that can afford the tuition but chose something else as their first priority, like dance or travel sports for their kids. Vouchers would help them, too. After all, it is their money, they should get to spend it.

 

[iloveangels]

Perhaps, iloveangels, but the idea of standards slipping just to get warm bodies in the school…I think that’s already happening!

We have had some families enroll in our school who have not exactly been model Catholics…or just model citizens, for that matter.

People who lie, cheat, steal…who don’t pay their tuition, who write bad checks, who don’t fulfil their obligations for BINGO and fund raising participation…whose kids are disruptive and rude… these phenomena were not tolerated as frequently when we started with the school years ago.

These days, I seem to hear about more and more problems and I can’t help feeling that the administration is willing to tolerate more nonsense just to keep the enrollment numbers up, so the Diocese doesn’t close us down as well.

That’s almost certainly part of it, St. Jude. Also the wider culture gets worse every year and that sort of stuff is tolerated, even expected out there. Before Catholics get all high and mighty over this though, remember that the poor moral education and the lack of catechesis has contributed to this development in the culture and as Catholics we’re not innocent of this. We may be living in the culture as Catholics, but what we do does affect non-Catholics. They deny it mightily but we lead them in some ways. We need to clean up our act first.

Piperatus, it’s also very non-catholic to water down Catholic schools, just to make them money-making opportunities. They are not businesses first. Neither are American dioceses, although they look like it sometimes, as dconklin has pointed out. This needs fixing.

Housearrest, a fancy gate isn’t what makes a school a prep school. Attitude and practice are. Many Catholic schools are now no more than prep schools. And just because you’d like to have the voucher money to pay your bills and that may be all you see, doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have disastrous consequences for the schools and for the church, whether you realize it or not.

 

[L_piperatus]

Piperatus, it’s also very non-catholic to water down Catholic schools, just to make them money-making opportunities. They are not businesses first. Neither are American dioceses, although they look like it sometimes, as dconklin has pointed out. This needs fixing.

Iloveangels, I agree with you that we must not water down Catholic schools. But I still don’t see why that would be a danger with school vouchers. There are many kids (both Catholics and non-Catholics) who are motivated and want to take school seriously, and they would benefit from attending a Catholic school. The school simply has to uphold its own standards of discipline and Catholic education. That means disciplining those students who do something wrong, and even removing them if necessary. Right now we have some 2.7 million kids/year attending Catholic school. School vouchers would simply open the doors of Catholic schools for more applicants, especially for kids from less wealthy families who wanted to attend a Catholic school but couldn’t afford it. Also, let’s not forget that Catholic schools would be competing with other private schools, once school vouchers become available. If Catholic schools fail to enforce discipline and Catholic identity, they will loose applicants to other private schools that offer better education, a safer environment, a more faithful Catholic curriculum, and so on.

 

[iloveangels]

Iloveangels, I agree with you that we must not water down Catholic schools. But I still don’t see why that would be a danger with school vouchers. There are many kids (both Catholics and non-Catholics) who are motivated and want to take school seriously, and they would benefit from attending a Catholic school. The school simply has to uphold its own standards of discipline and Catholic education. That means disciplining those students who do something wrong, and even removing them if necessary. Right now we have some 2.7 million kids/year attending Catholic school. School vouchers would simply open the doors of Catholic schools for more applicants, especially for kids from less wealthy families who wanted to attend a Catholic school but couldn’t afford it. Also, let’s not forget that Catholic schools would be competing with other private schools, once school vouchers become available. If Catholic schools fail to enforce discipline and Catholic identity, they will loose applicants to other private schools that offer better education, a safer environment, a more faithful Catholic curriculum, and so on.

Piperatus, I can tell that you’ve never been a classroom teacher. Believe me when I tell you that it doesn’t work this way. It seems like it ought to, yes, but it doesn’t.

People demand what they want according to their own opinions about things, and when they don’t see why they can’t get it they get what they want, they remain persistent right or wrong, and it goes downhill from there. If you can appeal to religion and the priest’s judgment, that’s fine and it usually (not always but usually) works with Catholics, but it almost never works with non-Catholics, who after all see the priest as just another person to be convinced or overwhelmed.

Make no mistake about the fact that people can be very persistent and will discover the levers to pull in order to get what they want. They will pull them and think nothing of beating up on a teacher, a classroom, a department, a school, and even a priest or a parish. Particularly if they don’t belong to the parish, or if they aren’t even Catholic to start with. They will hire lawyers to do this. And letting them into a situation for free that they normally would have to pay thousands of dollars to get only raises the bar for them, makes the fight more valuable to them.

I’m not saying everyone would do this, but all it takes is one really aggressive and legally-minded family. Just one. And the whole thing goes down the crapper. These people, unfortunately are common. Every public school system has at least one of them; it’s endemic.

One other thing–Catholic schools generally have a very well-defined population. The kids in Catholic schools tend to come from one of the following groups:
a) cradle catholics whose parents also went to the school, and wouldn’t think of going anywhere else, no matter how low their grades are. It’s a loyalty thing and may not include orthodoxy or high performance, although it can also include it.
b) those who view Catholic schools as prep schools; often doctor’s and lawyer’s kids but sometimes up-and-coming middle class as well
c) those who are running from the public schools for racial reasons, busing concerns or other social factors
d) those who are running from the public schools to avoid “labeling” - some of these kids are very physically ill, mentally ill or have low IQs; nevertheless they regard low grades as preferable to “labeling”
e) those kids who have so many drug or other legal infractions it’s either the Catholic schools or military academy
f) those kids who do not do well in large groups, and need a more specialized atmosphere, and smaller classes; in large public schools these kids go downhill; the smaller classes and kinder atmosphere of Catholic schools is a life-saver for these kids
g) the few who are in foster care and referred by social services because they know, even if they won’t admit, that Catholic schools can turn them around and get them to believe in themselves; it can make all the difference in the world.

These kinds of factors will cause people to pay for what they can get for “free.” For these things that the population of Catholic schools get for their money, they are grateful and avoid legal behavior and retribution for perceived inconveniences, lack of equipment and their grievances. They are generally a happy lot and back Catholic schools for what they get for their tuition.

Adding “bargain-seekers” to the mix would be a very bad thing. Particularly if they don’t really want to perform, and expect to get away with public school standards. For better or worse, Catholic school academic standards tend to be higher than public schools, if for no other reason than that the following factors:
a) Catholic teachers tend to be an individualistic lot who will work for less and insist on ideas; sometimes they’re good teachers but don’t do well in public schools because of their individualism or they’d be there. The pay and benefits are certainly higher.
b) People who pay expect to see something “extra” for their money.
c) When misbehavior happens you can always threaten to “call daddy and tell him he’s wasting his money,” which usually elicits a dramatic improvement in behavior.

 

[HouseArrest]

Piperatus, I can tell that you’ve never been a classroom teacher. Believe me when I tell you that it doesn’t work this way. It seems like it ought to, yes, but it doesn’t.

People demand what they want according to their own opinions about things, and when they don’t see why they can’t get it they get what they want, they remain persistent right or wrong, and it goes downhill from there. If you can appeal to religion and the priest’s judgment, that’s fine and it usually (not always but usually) works with Catholics, but it almost never works with non-Catholics, who after all see the priest as just another person to be convinced or overwhelmed.

Make no mistake about the fact that people can be very persistent and will discover the levers to pull in order to get what they want. They will pull them and think nothing of beating up on a teacher, a classroom, a department, a school, and even a priest or a parish. Particularly if they don’t belong to the parish, or if they aren’t even Catholic to start with.

One other thing–Catholic schools generally have a very defined population. The kids in Catholic schools tend to come from one of the following groups:
a) cradle catholics whose parents also went to the school, and wouldn’t think of going anywhere else, no matter how low their grades are. It’s a loyalty thing and may not include orthodoxy or high performance, although it can also include it.
b) those who view Catholic schools as prep schools; often doctor’s and lawyer’s kids but sometimes up-and-coming middle class as well
c) those who are running from the public schools for racial reasons, busing concerns or other social factors
d) those who are running from the public schools to avoid “labeling” - some of these kids are very physically ill, mentally ill or have low IQs; nevertheless they regard low grades as preferable to “labeling”
e) those kids who have so many drug or other legal infractions it’s either the Catholic schools or military academy
f) those kids who do not do well in large groups, and need a more specialized atmosphere, and smaller classes; in large public schools these kids go downhill; the smaller classes and kinder atmosphere of Catholic schools is a life-saver for these kids
g) the few who are in foster care and referred by social services because they know, even if they won’t admit, that Catholic schools can turn them around and get them to believe in themselves; it can make all the difference in the world.
These kinds of factors will cause people to pay for what they can get for “free.”

I am not sure how tuition vouchers would make this situation any worse. This is happening already, everywhere, to some degree. Right now when it happens in a private school, the parents start out with “I am paying for this… blah blah blah”. How can the entitlement get any worse than that? Besides, all the school has to say is, “NO”.
Adding “bargain-seekers” to the mix would be a very bad thing. Particularly if they don’t really want to perform, and expect to get away with public school standards. For better or worse, Catholic school academic standards tend to be higher than public schools, if for no other reason than that the following factors:
a) Catholic teachers tend to be an individualistic lot who will work for less and insist on ideas; sometimes they’re good teachers but don’t do well in public schools because of their individualism or they’d be there. The pay and benefits are certainly higher.
b) People who pay expect to see something “extra” for their money.

Again, they are paying more now, so how would it be worse if they were getting vouchers to fund some of it?
c) When misbehavior happens you can always threaten to “call daddy and tell him he’s wasting his money,” which usually elicits a dramatic improvement in behavior.

I guess our school is different. The principal would never call and say such a thing to a parent here. That’s horribly unprofessional.

Just because the school accepts students coming in with vouchers in hand does not mean it needs to change its standards. It would be the school’s own fault, and not the fault of a voucher system, if it did.

 

[iloveangels]

Just because the school accepts students coming in with vouchers in hand does not mean it needs to change its standards. It would be the school’s own fault, and not the fault of a voucher system, if it did.

Absolutely it does. You are wrong about how schools work. The standards are directly related to what can be supported by the population who attend the school. This is why every single school, public or private, has its own character, its own internal culture.

If you import many non-Catholics, it will become a non-Catholic school, just as surely as night follows day. The only thing Catholic about it will be the sign out front but once you are in the doors, it will be what it is.

 

[HouseArrest]

Absolutely it does. You are wrong about how schools work. The standards are directly related to what can be supported by the population who attend the school. This is why every single school, public or private, has its own character, its own internal culture.

If you import many non-Catholics, it will become a non-Catholic school, just as surely as night follows day. The only thing Catholic about it will be the sign out front but once you are in the doors, it will be what it is.

I disagree.

If you import non-Catholics, and keep your Catholic standards, then one of two things will happen. Either those non-Catholics will comply or they will leave, What have you lost then? Nothing. You didn’t have any of those students before, and now you have the ones that fit in with your culture, as you say.

 

[iloveangels]

HouseArrest:

Besides, all the school has to say is, “NO”.

Obviously, you have never taught in a classroom. In small matters, you can say no. In matters that are perceived as larger (but which can still be small), you will be looking an angry parent in the face or their lawyer. Or as in the case of a colleague I had a few years ago, down the barrel of a shotgun.

Paying more is not the worst thing that can happen, HouseArrest. Indeed, the situation that you are advocating (importing people to come in for free or near free) would reduce the value of a Catholic education to zero, the same price people pay for public schooling. There would be rather little point in paying even part of the tuition in some of the worst cases.

Review the well-defined population of the Catholic schools in my previous post. Those things in large part depend on the fact that Catholic schools are much different than public schools. Once they take in a lot of public school kids, the properties that those people now pay for (small classes, different atmosphere, no labeling, racial homogeneity, higher performance standards requiring more work, etc) will disappear. They will no longer pay the kind of money the schools now are able to charge. In fact, the price the market will bear will fall to what the market will pay for public schools, which is $0.00.

 

[Bob_Aliano]

Absolutely it does. You are wrong about how schools work. The standards are directly related to what can be supported by the population who attend the school. This is why every single school, public or private, has its own character, its own internal culture.

If you import many non-Catholics, it will become a non-Catholic school, just as surely as night follows day. The only thing Catholic about it will be the sign out front but once you are in the doors, it will be what it is.

We had non-Catholic students, mainly Jewish, in the Catholic school I attended back in the forties and fifties with no loss of our Catholic culture. The only provision the school made was to allow time for them to attend a few hours of religious education at the synagogue while we had our catechism classes. If a Catholic school cannot maintain it’s Catholic culture in the face of a few students it isn’t much of a Catholic institution to begin with and it probably would be better for the Church if it did close.

 

[iloveangels]

We had non-Catholic students, mainly Jewish, in the Catholic school I attended back in the forties and fifties with no loss of our Catholic culture. The only provision the school made was to allow time for them to attend a few hours of religious education at the synagogue while we had our catechism classes. If a Catholic school cannot maintain it’s Catholic culture in the face of a few students it isn’t much of a Catholic institution to begin with and it probably would be better for the Church if it did close.

What percentage? It makes all the difference in the world.

A very small percentage (less than about 5-10%) are not going to damage the school, as long as they perceive they are getting something they don’t want to pass up, and therefore feel like co-operating. More than that you will start to pick up damage.

 

[HouseArrest]

Obviously, you have never taught in a classroom. In small matters, you can say no. In matters that are perceived as larger (but which can still be small), you will be looking an angry parent in the face or their lawyer. Or as in the case of a colleague I had a few years ago, down the barrel of a shotgun.

Paying more is not the worst thing that can happen, HouseArrest. Indeed, the situation that you would be importing by allowing people to come in for free would reduce the value of a Catholic education to zero, the same price people pay for public schooling.

Actually, I have taught in a classroom. I have served on a school board. I have said no in larger matters. I have looked in the face of angry parents. I have needed the help of my principal and superintendent on occasion. If I were looking down the barrel of a shotgun, I assure you, I would not bend the rules, rather, I would call the police.

Paying more sometimes is the worst thing that can happen. Schools are closing because of low enrollment. Part of the reason for low enrollment is the cost. So reducing some of the cost can sometimes increase enrollment. Our school has lost many students for just this reason.

I wouldn’t actually call the cost “free”, for two reasons. First, no education is free. We paid for it. Vouchers would simply be me spending my own money where I see fit. When I go to Macy’s, do I give them my $100, and then they turn around and give me the dress they think I should have? No, I pick my own.

Second, I highly doubt vouchers will cover the entire cost of tuition.

 

[JillyAnn]

Excuse my shortness, I am at work…LOL!

a) being government funded full on and accepting Pell grants are completely different issues.
and

b) I am shocked that no one has commented on unemployment. 49 Schools in a district near me are closing(I am assuming this is what the discussion is about)…49 schools worth of soon to be unemployed teachers, staff, janitors, coaches, etc…I wonder if these staff are being re-homed at the new schools that will obviously require more staff?

My understanding is that they intend to sell the properties togenerate income/decrease the diocesan debt. Another diocese sold similar property and gained something like $19 million.

Discuss…

JA

 

[iloveangels]

Actually, I have taught in a classroom. I have served on a school board. I have said no in larger matters. I have looked in the face of angry parents. I have needed the help of my principal and superintendent on occasion. If I were looking down the barrel of a shotgun, I assure you, I would not bend the rules, rather, I would call the police.

Easier said than done, I assure you.

Paying more sometimes is the worst thing that can happen. Schools are closing because of low enrollment. Part of the reason for low enrollment is the cost. So reducing some of the cost can sometimes increase enrollment. Our school has lost many students for just this reason.

A closed catholic school is preferable to a ruined one, which damages the reputation of the Catholic schools, the Catholic church and our outreach to the general population. High cost is something that must be approached in a different fashion than rounding up the local heathens and getting government money for them.

I wouldn’t actually call the cost “free”, for two reasons. First, no education is free. We paid for it. Vouchers would simply be me spending my own money where I see fit. When I go to Macy’s, do I give them my $100, and then they turn around and give me the dress they think I should have? No, I pick my own.

No, you pay for a lot of things that you don’t want because that is how funding is structured in this country. You paid for the war in the middle east. You paid for abortions. You pay for a lot of surveillance activity that you might consider wrong. It’s the nature of the American political system. It has nothing to do with the Catholic schools. You pay taxes because you live in your country, state and community. If you choose not to send a child to the local public schools, you are in no different a situation than the couple who has no children as far as the school and the state are concerned. If you want the services of a private school which are extra, you pay extra. That’s the deal and it always has been.

Second, I highly doubt vouchers will cover the entire cost of tuition.

I’m not so sure. Catholic school tuition costs are much lower than the average amount spent per student in public schools. It varies by region, but here the cost of sending a child to Catholic school is about 60% of the cost that the state expends to send a child to public school. That cost, however, would probably rise quickly to meet state standards for technology, science standards, sports facilities, building codes for larger numbers of kids, etc if such a program were approved–this simply to avoid violating the law. Some catholic schools are not in very good physical condition.

Regardless, letting people in with a voucher would reduce the value of a seat in a Catholic school significantly. It might not be worth the difference between the full price and the voucher price. If conditions decline to approximate those in public schools, the seat would be worth exactly the going value in public schools–which is ZERO- $0.00.

I would guess that the children that would cross over from public school would also come from a select population, and you might not want to deal with their parents. I am guessing some of them would be an interesting lot, maybe even with an axe to grind against the Catholic church. It might end up costing the schools money in the long run in legal fees, etc.

 

[HouseArrest]

Easier said than done, I assure you.

What, calling the police? Or all of the above? Calling the polic is hard? I don’t think so. And I wrote that I had done all the rest… not sure what you are saying here.
A closed catholic school is preferable to a ruined one, which damages the reputation of the Catholic schools, the Catholic church and our outreach to the general population. High cost is something that must be approached in a different fashion than rounding up the local heathens and getting government money for them.

If it is closed, it is ruined. So as a last ditch effort, accept the vouchers. If it doesn’t work, don’t accept or close. What has been lost?
No, you pay for a lot of things that you don’t want because that is how funding is structured in this country. You paid for the war in the middle east. You paid for abortions. You pay for a lot of surveillance activity that you might consider wrong. It’s the nature of the American political system. It has nothing to do with the Catholic schools.

**Well I can’t go fight the war for myself. And no I don’t want to pay for abortions, working on that. Even so, if I can fix one instance in which I am paying for something unfairly, why wouldn’t I, just because I can’t change everything?**Second, I highly doubt vouchers will cover the entire cost of tuition.

I’m not so sure. Catholic school tuition costs are much lower than the average amount spent per student in public schools. It varies by region, but here the cost of sending a child to Catholic school is about 60% of the cost that the state expends to send a child to public school. I would guess that the children that would cross over from public school would also come from a select population, and you might not want to deal with their parents. I am guessing they would be an interesting lot.

**Tuition costs are well below the cost of educating the student, which in turn is well below the cost of educating a public school student. Maybe then the Catholic schools could afford more of the necessities. There is no law stating they have to keep the spending per student the same. As for the population that would cross over, I am guessing you’d get a little of everything. That’s nothing to fear. Historically Catholic schools have educated the very poor and broken with great success.

I am sure there would be difficulties and adjustments. That’s no reason to operate out of fear, though.**

 

[iloveangels]

Excuse my shortness, I am at work…LOL!

a) being government funded full on and accepting Pell grants are completely different issues.
and

b) I am shocked that no one has commented on unemployment. 49 Schools in a district near me are closing(I am assuming this is what the discussion is about)…49 schools worth of soon to be unemployed teachers, staff, janitors, coaches, etc…I wonder if these staff are being re-homed at the new schools that will obviously require more staff?

My understanding is that they intend to sell the properties togenerate income/decrease the diocesan debt. Another diocese sold similar property and gained something like $19 million.

Discuss…

JA

Avoiding unemployment isn’t a good enough reason to ruin a Catholic school. Catholic school teachers don’t get paid much anyway and can generally seek other employment if they have to, like anyone else.

Decreasing diocesan debt is a laudable goal for Catholics, particularly if the schools being closed were not serving the cause of the Catholic faith, which is what this is about, after all. And of course, that call is the bishop’s to make, not ours.

 

[iloveangels]

What, calling the police? Or all of the above? Calling the polic is hard? I don’t think so. And I wrote that I had done all the rest… not sure what you are saying here.

You ever have anybody put a 12-gauge up your nose in a fit of rage? If you had, you’d know what I was talking about.

Tuition costs are well below the cost of educating the student, which in turn is well below the cost of educating a public school student. Maybe then the Catholic schools could afford more of the necessities. There is no law stating they have to keep the spending per student the same. As for the population that would cross over, I am guessing you’d get a little of everything. That’s nothing to fear. Historically Catholic schools have educated the very poor and broken with great success.

That’s just silly. If you got your way, they’d be giving out vouchers. Vouchers pay the costs due, and don’t pay over that. They’re not going to give us money to replace the public schools. Why should they? That would be stupid. THINK. Can you imagine the headlines? GOVERNMENT GIVES CATHOLIC CHURCH YOUR TAX DOLLARS. The public school teacher’s unions and the political parties would have a fit coniption and they have clout. You want to be hated on the street?? There you go.

As for educating the very poor. Not hardly. The Catholic school tended to the poor immigrants that were Catholic. Those were probably the poor you’re thinking of. They’re middle class now, the people you sit next to in Church no doubt. The Catholic schools have also served as social service instruments in the inner city, but that doesn’t produce conversions for the most part. The civil government uses the Church when they can because they don’t want to deal with these situations, and we aren’t much more successful than they would be. Go look at your nearest ghetto if you don’t believe me.

CLOSED is not RUINED. Defaced and shamed is ruined. Operating at cross purposes with the Catholic church is ruined. Fighting in public when we should be preaching Christianity is ruined. Defying one’s bishop over such things is ruined. CLOSED is merely closed. Go to the Catholic school down the road or home-school if what you really want is a good Catholic education. This is about education NOT about MONEY.

BTW, it’s not fear. It’s prudence and practicality, things considered old-fashioned nowadays, but that are more sound and necessary than ever.

 

[HouseArrest]

You ever have anybody put a 12-gauge up your nose in a fit of rage? If you had, you’d know what I was talking about.

That’s just silly. They’re going to give vouchers. Vouchers pay the costs due, and don’t pay over that. They’re not going to give us money to replace the public schools. Why should they? THINK. The public school teacher’s unions would have a fit coniption and they have clout.

As for educating the very poor. Not hardly. The Catholic school tended to the poor immigrants that were Catholic. Those were probably the poor you’re thinking of. They’re middle class now, the people you sit next to in Church no doubt. The Catholic schools have also served as social service instruments in the inner city, but that doesn’t produce conversions for the most part. The civil government uses the Church when they can because they don’t want to deal with these situations, and we aren’t much more successful than they would be. Go look at your nearest ghetto if you don’t believe me.

BTW, it’s not fear. It’s prudence and practicality, something considered old-fashioned nowadays.

Well, I just don’t agree with you. I think vouchers are worth a try.

 

[iloveangels]

Well, I just don’t agree with you. I think vouchers are worth a try.

I think we can agree to disagree. I think they’d be a disaster for a whole stack of reasons.

JillyAnn,
Apparently your bishop has decided that those 49 Catholic schools either aren’t performing as they should, are too close together or don’t further the cause of the Catholic church for some reason. He is the one who decides, not us.

This is about the Catholic church and its education apostolate, not about vouchers or real estate or unemployment.

 

[HouseArrest]

I think we can agree to disagree. I think they’d be a disaster for a whole stack of reasons.

They very well might be.

 

[JillyAnn]

Catholic school teachers don’t get paid much anyway and can generally seek other employment if they have to, like anyone else.<<<

Some of the schools closing are high schools…not just grammar schools…FWIW…

Just out of curiosity…with cuts happening everywhere, especially in education (NYC has several public schools closing) where do you suspect that roughly 500 +teachers and administrators are going to resume gainful employment in their fields in the area in which they live?

By not paying roughly 500 teachers and administrators the church is “saving” roughly 17.5 MILLION dollars. And that’s just the teachers and administrators(and I think I estimated a little low)…never mind the cafeteria staff, janitors, counselors, food service industry, landscapers and numerous other people not factored into this…

It’s more people on unemployment unfortunately…now these teachers are living off my tax money instead of private income(I have no children)…

So now with minimum of 17.5 mil saved and selling off property the diocese shouldn’t need to take up collections for a few years?? LOL!! I’m just “playing Devil’s advocate” and presenting a different aspect tot his conversation…

I feel badly for the families who are affected and pray you can find the solutions you need and can afford…IMHO, all Catholic children should be raised in the faith of Catholic school…