Science and the modern Apostasy

[rossum]

I simply believe in the Church and in the divine inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture.

You are at liberty to believe what you want. However, it is obvious that scripture, as we have it now is not inerrant. It contains errors.

2 Kings 8:26—“Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.”

2 Chronicles 22:2—“Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.”

rossum

 

[Al_Moritz]

Does the scriptures teach the earth was the centre of the universe? If so, the scripture is wrong. Simple. Are you suggesting the earth actually is the entre of the universe? I might not be understanding what you said correctly.

Surely it would be just madness for the church to cling to and teach the sun goes around the earth, which every child in the world over the age of 8 knows is wrong?

Sarah x

Yes, it would be madness.

 

[Al_Moritz]

I simply believe in the Church and in the divine inspiration and inerrancy of Scripture.

I do too. But the Church also teaches that the inerrancy of scripture relates to things that pertain to salvation, not to scientific facts. Also, many scriptural passages are written as allegories, not as historical accounts. And while the Bible is inerrant in essentials, it does contain discrepanices, as not just Rossum here points out, but is common knowledge among Catholic theologians.

 

[Al_Moritz]

Ok that helps. Thanks. I think given the fact the church has an observatory, and trained astronomers, the church would have problems with an earth centred view of the universe, but I dont know. No I don’t think you’re a madman at all. I’m just quite fascinated with the cognative dissonance involved. Very interesting.

Sarah x

Yes, the cognitive dissonance is fascinating indeed. But I also find it disturbing.

 

[beehumble]

Ultimately, he will be vanquished, and a period of Peace will be granted to the world, a universal Eucharistic reign, but still limited.

…La Sallette…

We are in the universal Eucharist reign, and have been since the Last Supper. And we are in the Period of Peace of Fatima - Blessed Mary basically said it would begin once the Act of Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary was accomplished, and it was accomplished on March 25, 1984.

As for La Salette, one must exercise caution when citing older messages from Marian apparitions. Prophetic messages need to be cited with caution and a knowledge of the circumstances of the times in which the messages were given; some of the prophecies given might have already passed. At the time of the apparition, all of Rome was controlled by the Church (the Papal States). But in 1870, much of the city of Rome came under the control of the Italian government. Rome - that part controlled by the Italian government today and not the Vatican, is the seat of the Italian government - fascist Mussolini ruled Italy from Rome.

God bless you.

 

[StAnastasia]

You are at liberty to believe what you want. However, it is obvious that scripture, as we have it now is not inerrant. It contains errors.

2 Kings 8:26—“Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.”

2 Chronicles 22:2—“Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.” rossum

You found an error?!?!?!?

 

[StAnastasia]

But I am convinced that it is not possible to empirically prove either heliocentrism or geocentrism. In my opinion, all that we can observe is relative motion and unless we can actually put ourselves outside of the universe and observe its workings we cannot have absolute proof.

How do you account for stellar parallax on a geocentric model?

On the other hand, geocentrism and its truth, can be proven scripturally and theologically.

 

[grannymh]

You are at liberty to believe what you want. However, it is obvious that scripture, as we have it now is not inerrant. It contains errors.

2 Kings 8:26—“Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.”

2 Chronicles 22:2—“Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.”

rossum

Personally, I found life simpler as soon as I focused on Catholic doctrines which draw affirmation from Scripture, Tradition, Early Church Fathers, east and west, along with early major Church Councils and later Councils, the Nicene Creed, the liturgy for the Seven Sacraments and the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory be to God prayers.

With all that to draw on, why should I bother with numerical discrepancies in history?

 

[rossum]

Personally, I found life simpler as soon as I focused on Catholic doctrines which draw affirmation from Scripture, Tradition, Early Church Fathers, east and west, along with early major Church Councils and later Councils, the Nicene Creed, the liturgy for the Seven Sacraments and the Our Father, Hail Mary, and Glory be to God prayers.

With all that to draw on, why should I bother with numerical discrepancies in history?

You shouldn’t. Such discrepancies are only important to those who claim total inerrancy for scripture, i.e. covering history, science etc, rather than just Christian doctrine.

rossum

 

[inocente]

You are at liberty to believe what you want. However, it is obvious that scripture, as we have it now is not inerrant. It contains errors.

2 Kings 8:26—“Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.”

2 Chronicles 22:2—“Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother’s name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.”

rossum

Woe is me, my faith is destroyed, oh cruel fate.

Hang on though, the NIV says 22 in both cases. It gets this from “Some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac; Hebrew forty-two”. Oh, NIV, thou art wondrous, thy restoreth my faith by choosingeth the right scroll, etc., etc.

 

[StAnastasia]

Woe is me, my faith is destroyed, oh cruel fate. Hang on though, the NIV says 22 in both cases. It gets this from “Some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac; Hebrew forty-two”. Oh, NIV, thou art wondrous, thy restoreth my faith by choosingeth the right scroll, etc., etc.

The contrasting genealogies of Jesus are interesting as well.

 

[grannymh]

Woe is me, my faith is destroyed, oh cruel fate.

Hang on though, the NIV says 22 in both cases. It gets this from “Some Septuagint manuscripts and Syriac; Hebrew forty-two”. Oh, NIV, thou art wondrous, thy restoreth my faith by choosingeth the right scroll, etc., etc.

Praise God that I am Catholic!

 

[grannymh]

The contrasting genealogies of Jesus are interesting as well.

Repeat of previous post.

Praise God that I am Catholic!

 

[StAnastasia]

Praise God that I am Catholic!

Indeed!

 

[tonyrey]

Evil is multiform. Evil can take many forms whether social, religious, political or scientific. No culture is perfect, no age is perfect. All evil, which takes its origin at the Foot of the Tree in the Garden, ultimately can be traced to the Revolt of Lucifer and of his angels and of his rejection of the divine Plan. As such, human evil is essentially the result of a cosmic battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness. Still, all history in a sense tends and awaits the revelation of the “full stature of Christ” that will free humanity and creation from the bondage of sin and destruction. As such, we must comprehend our own age with a healthy realism, that accepts what is good in life and rejects what is bad.

We must have a considerate and respectful attitude towards other religions. At the same time, we must hold to our Christian truths. There is only one true religion, one religio vera, which is Christianity whose fullest expression is found in the Roman Catholic Church, the Body of Christ, Kingdom of God and earthly Jerusalem. We cannot expect the world to convert wholesale to Christianity. At the same time, the Church must be focused on the task of evangelization, in the hope of redeeming what can be redeemed of the world.

According to Christian prophecy, the process of rebellion that started at the Foot of the Tree, will be taken to its ultimate expression in the realization of a universal political and totalitarian superpower at the head of which will be the Son of Perdition, the Antichrist. This man, certainly of Jewish origin, will proclaim himself as God, will blaspheme the Divinity and persecute the Church, the People of God. Ultimately, he will be vanquished, and a period of Peace will be granted to the world, a universal Eucharistic reign, but still limited.

Still, the current developments occurring within contemporary society point to the disparate but resolute direction towards a New World Order of global ambitions. As such, we are not far from the days of the Son of Perdition. Already, in his encyclical E. Supremi, St. Pope Pius X stated this in relation to the advent of the Antichrist:

When all this is considered there is good reason to fear… that there may be already in the world the “Son of Perdition” of whom the Apostle speaks

And that is all. In the end, Love will conquer and redeem humanity.

I agree with most of your points but I’m not convinced there will be a Son of Perdition…

 

[TheTrueCentrist]

The luminous orb which God had designed to function as the earth’s indispensable Figaro, had become the earth’s ringmaster. We might say democracy had invaded the heavens in anticipation of its triumph among nations. Its absurdity as a political system should have been apparent then and there when viewed in physical terms, for to say that society can be ruled from below is tantamount to saying that the universe can be controlled by animals or sticks and stones at the lower end of the cosmological scale.

That is silliness which cheapens an otherwise insightful post.

The real issue is that science is getting too good. Religion is no longer able to make any physical-world predictions or it risks another Galilean embarrassment. This retreat has been fairly gradual, but is nearing the end-stages. I think the consequences are not all bad. Modern religion is far less superstitious; no longer do we immediately think disease or natural disasters are punishments from God for example (although people still cling to the idea that God gives them material rewards.) However, the why of faith becomes much less clear. It becomes much easier for people to ignore religious proclamations when the only warning it can offer is “you’ll to hell.” People no longer believe (and rightly so) that gods are out there to capsize their boats, cause it to rain, or give them lots of children.

Ultimately, a person wanting to be religious will have to say: “This religion make no claims that are verifiable in this world, I choose to be religious out of faith alone.”

 

[rossum]

The contrasting genealogies of Jesus are interesting as well.

My favourite of the three is Matthew 1:1 “This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham”.

That one is so much easier to remember than all the others.

rossum

 

[tonyrey]

The contrasting genealogies of Jesus are interesting as well.
My favourite of the three is Matthew 1:1 “This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah the son of David, the son of Abraham”.

That one is so much easier to remember than all the others.

And arguably the most important!

 

[iloveangels]

A lot of people who use science to try to refute religion don’t really understand the aims and methods of science. Science tells you “how to,” but it can never tell you why. Religion tells you “why.”

Example: Science tells you how your body works. Religion tells you why you have a body, ie. why you’re here. Science can’t tell you that.

PS, I’m a practicing scientist with multiple US and European patents. Many people who like to talk about science don’t know any science. Science literacy is very low in the United States, as is Mathematical literacy. Fact. (And literacy in the classical humanities is in the basement.)