Science can't destroy Religion

[PRmerger]

Agreed. So why is it horrific, in and of itself, that many people died, and others lived? Even if they suffered when they died? Suffering is a part of life, too, and none escape it. Why does God allowing people to die make Him the bad guy, or illogical?

Indeed. The horrific part is the atheist answer to this: some people just suffer for no reason. That, indeed, is a tragedy.

The Catholic response is that God makes it up to these people who suffered horrifically.

 

[atheistgirl]

However, if you care to read this you can see that your claim mostly fails:

The Irrational Atheist

There’s a very good and very enjoyable dismantling of the book here: arizonaatheist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/irrational-atheist-refutation.html

However, if Richard Dawkins declared on CNN right now, there is a God, and he believes in this God, and this God is the Christian God, and Sam Harris echoed this passionately, declaring his undying love for God, it wouldn’t make the slightest bit of difference to me at all.

The lack of evidence I see for any kind of Deity has nothing to do with these individuals. My atheism has nothing to do with them.

I was an atheist long before I ever heard of them. They’re johnny come latelies to the party as far as I’m concerned.

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

Gee I didn’t know…

There’ya’go

In fact I linked in a post way back in time where most of these ‘‘commandments’’ were in existence long before Moses showed up

Sarah x

 

[Lochias]

Ohhh Meow !!!

Well, you’re assuming I didn’t buy you an icecream yesterday.

You wouldn’t know whether I did or not, because you stood me up and never showed

(sits back and waits for my friend to come back at me with God says the same thing about me - I wouldn’t know whether He exists or not, because I never showed up )

Sarah x

 

[atheistgirl]

You again are missing the distinction. Saving someone is not the same as suspending free will. The free will act still continued. The free will of the priests praying the rosary continued.

8 of 8 Christians in the very same place doing the very same thing being saved is a bit more than random.

So you have no links to any such statistics or studies. Just your own reasons for thinking so.

I submit you’re prone to confirmation bias

Sarah x

 

[buffalo]

There’s a very good and very enjoyable dismantling of the book here: arizonaatheist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/02/irrational-atheist-refutation.html

However, if Richard Dawkins declared on CNN right now, there is a God, and he believes in this God, and this God is the Christian God, and Sam Harris echoed this passionately, declaring his undying love for God, it wouldn’t make the slightest bit of difference to me at all.

The lack of evidence I see for any kind of Deity has nothing to do with these individuals. My atheism has nothing to do with them.

I was an atheist long before I ever heard of them. They’re johnny come latelies to the party as far as I’m concerned.

Sarah x

I read the so-called debunking and I wouldn’t recommend it. It doesn’t do much to help the atheist position.

 

[atheistgirl]

I submit you are not a student of philosophy.

I submit I agree with the submisson you submitted regarding my student status as pertaining to philiosphy.

Don’t mean I’m wrong though, just coz I ain’t got me no fancy education and don’t jaw them thar fancy words n’all.



Sarah x

 

[buffalo]

So you have no links to any such statistics or studies. Just your own reasons for thinking so.

I submit you’re prone to confirmation bias

Sarah x

I do not understand.

 

[atheistgirl]

I read the so-called debunking and I wouldn’t recommend it. It doesn’t do much to help the atheist position.

Ditto regarding Beales diatripe.

Sarah x

 

[buffalo]

There’ya’go

In fact I linked in a post way back in time where most of these ‘‘commandments’’ were in existence long before Moses showed up

Sarah x

You make a great argument for “natural law”. Come on over to our side.

 

[buffalo]

Ditto regarding Beales diatripe.

Sarah x

Care to discuss the facts?

 

[atheistgirl]

Come on over to our side.

I really appreciate the invite

Prove to me your God exists, and I’ll be over there in a heartbeat.

Trouble is, you can’t. No one can. No more than I can prove He doesn’t exist.

But the evidence suggests my position is sound.

Meanwhile, the weather is glorious here, and the waters clear, clean and cold, and well, life is good

Sarah x

 

[Marc_Anthony]

But allowed thousands and thousands to die horrifically and chose a random handful of people to survive

You’re right I don’t believe in a soul or a Deity, and sometimes the conversation can get a bit confused because for the purpose of conversation I allowed that they do, but have to ask why would an all loving, caring, personal God chose a handful of people to save, when He could save everyone

Sarah x

Well then you have indeed hit upon a real problem, and not an easy one to solve, so congratulations!

It’s no surprise that there are differing responses among the theists in this thread. The problem of evil is one of only two objections to God that St. Thomas considered difficult enough to address in the Summa (unfortunately I can’t remember the other right now). The reason there are differing solutions to the problem being offered here is because the problem is so difficult; there really isn’t a universally agreed solution.

For my take, I don’t think a solution is necessary. I am an (amateur) Thomist, meaning, of course, that I agree with most of St. Thomas Aquinas’s philosophy. Basically I think that Aquinas managed to prove that God is omnibenevolent.

With this proven we don’t need to find the solution to the problem of evil; we know that whatever happens it MUST somehow contribute to the overall good. How or why this is is irrelevant since we know it HAS to be true.

 

[Lochias]

I really appreciate the invite

Prove to me your God exists, and I’ll be over there in a heartbeat.

Trouble is, you can’t. No one can. No more than I can prove He doesn’t exist.

But the evidence suggests my position is sound.

Meanwhile, the weather is glorious here, and the waters clear, clean and cold, and well, life is good

Sarah x

I would submit (I love that phrase!) that the evidence you take suggestions from isn’t evidence at all. Science cannot explain God, any more than the Church tries to explain science. You’re not lookin’ in the right place, and you cannot disprove that there is more to our world than what can be tested in a beaker or a microscope. Science is the How of the world, and God is the Why.

Would you be willing to try a prayer or two every day for, say, a month? Start exercising that part of yourself, just like lifting weights forms muscles and math problems stimulate the mind?

 

[atheistgirl]

The problem of evil is one of only two objections to God that St. Thomas considered difficult enough to address in the Summa (unfortunately I can’t remember the other right now).

The other is that God simply isn’t necessary. We can explain everything by means of nature and reason

Sarah x

 

[Lochias]

The other is that God simply isn’t necessary. We can explain everything by means of nature and reason

Sarah x

Says you. Nature and reason had to come into being somehow, and an accident that is (mathematically) virtually impossible just doesn’t cut it for me.

 

[atheistgirl]

Would you be willing to try a prayer or two every day for, say, a month? Start exercising that part of yourself, just like lifting weights forms muscles and math problems stimulate the mind?

Ok.

Fine.

Let’s do this

Are you willing to accept that this could backfire big time on you, and not only will I be able to say I see no evidence for a Deity, but from the end of the challenge I might also be able to add that I know from personal experience prayers make no difference and God doesn’t listen, because I prayed

You happy with that

Sarah x

 

[Lochias]

Ok.

Fine.

Let’s do this

Are you willing to accept that this could backfire big time on you, and not only will I be able to say I see no evidence for a Deity, but from the end of the challenge I might also be able to add that I know from personal experience prayers make no difference and God doesn’t listen, because I prayed

You happy with that

Sarah x

Heh. If you realize that, first of all, I’m not issuing it as a challenge so much as a “just give it a try”. My end goal here isn’t to make you go “WOAH! He DOES Exist!” It’s simply to get you along the right course in terms of seeking God.

You also need to realize (if you don’t already) that prayer isn’t a magical gum-ball machine in which you ask for something and get it, no questions asked. Prayer is a communication to God, whether it be in the traditional form of things like the “Our Father” or more mundane “Hello Father, just wanted to tell you while I’m walking to work that I love You, and thank You for having created me.”

It is my sincere and abject hope that you hear God speak back within your heart. This isn’t an all-or-nothing, no more than a relationship with your mother or brother or husband or wife is an all-or-nothing. It’s constant, give-and-take, and the most fruitful and gentle thing a person can imagine.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

The other is that God simply isn’t necessary. We can explain everything by means of nature and reason

Sarah x

Are you quoting Saint Thomas on this or is this one of your objections?

[EDIT: I looked it up, and you are indeed correct, this is the second objection Saint Thomas thought it was worth considering. ]

 

[atheistgirl]

Heh. If you realize that, first of all, I’m not issuing it as a challenge so much as a “just give it a try”. My end goal here isn’t to make you go “WOAH! He DOES Exist!” It’s simply to get you along the right course in terms of seeking God.

You also need to realize (if you don’t already) that prayer isn’t a magical gum-ball machine in which you ask for something and get it, no questions asked. Prayer is a communication to God, whether it be in the traditional form of things like the “Our Father” or more mundane “Hello Father, just wanted to tell you while I’m walking to work that I love You, and thank You for having created me.”

It is my sincere and abject hope that you hear God speak back within your heart. This isn’t an all-or-nothing, no more than a relationship with your mother or brother or husband or wife is an all-or-nothing. It’s constant, give-and-take, and the most fruitful and gentle thing a person can imagine.

I understand that. I’ve read quite a bit on prayer. I was being a bit, you know, well …

What prayer would you recommend I pray?

I will pray it, in all sincerity, and I will report back, honestly, what, if any, difference, it makes, internally or externally, with me.

Sound fair?

Sarah x