Science Gives Christians Upper Hand Over Atheists

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maranatha
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Tim tells us he will not take him (Giertych) seriously unless he gets his work published in a peer-reviewed publication. Now, I already knew how sinister some of those peer-reviewed publications can be but if I had said so without evidence I would have been ridiculed. I’ll probably be ridiculed anyway. If you read the first url you will see that ridicule is one of the arrows in the quiver of the evolution religion’s apologists. You see it regularly on this exact forum. If you read what the author on the first url writes and are not finally convinced that evolution is a religion then you must not understand English.

attw.org/TCQarticles/9.2/9-2Sullivan.pdf
Peer review is the means by which the scientific community controls the quality of published papers. Scientists have to build on the work of others, which they mainly access through papers in established journals. No scientist has the time or the expertise to quality control every paper he or she reads – if good work was not separated from the reams of poor, cranky and downright mendacious stuff that people seek to publish, then little progress would be possible – the community would be unable to build up a body of quality research in which we can place our confidence.

Peer review is not perfect – there have been some very high profile failures (almost all involved papers being published that should not have been published), and there are various alternative approaches including the unrefereed on-line publication of pre-prints, particularly in the astronomy, physics community on the arXiv server, and the use of open web-review with which a couple of new biology journals are experimenting. But formal peer review or refereeing remains the primary means for ensuring quality and eliminating error, crankery and fraud from the scientific literature.

Sullivan’s paper makes some relevant points, but Sullivan is not a scientist and Sullivan’s article relies almost entirely on assertion – it is not supported by much evidence of improper suppression of valid scientific ideas. As I have said, the peer review process has occasionally failed to filter out egregious blunders but, on the other hand, there is little or no evidence that peer review has been a barrier to progress by suppressing radical warranted findings for any length of time. It might well be that some papers on plate tectonics were refused publication in the early days, and Marshall and Warren’s work on H pylori and stomach ulcers took a long time to be accepted (although, they weren’t actually denied publication – Marshall’s experiment deliberately infecting himself was published in an Australian medical journal), but it’s hard to think of substantial cases in which peer review has a been a long term barrier to new thinking. On the contrary there are endless cases in which scientific claims that were published without peer review were later shown to be baloney. Young Earth Creationists and proponents of ID hate peer review because they can’t get their ideas through it and into reputable journals, but that is because their ideas are devoid of scientific merit.

There are also some vocal opponents of peer review from within the academy, but very few or no ideas for how to make a better arrangement for separating the scientific wheat from the chaff.

Alec
evolutionpages.com
 
Furthermore, I’m sorry, but I can’t respect any organization that when attempting to refute scientific data links to Wikipedia to show proof. :rolleyes:
I wouldn’t discount the value of Wikipedia. An example would be Human Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two ancestral chromosomes by Alec MacAndrew.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chromosome_2_(human
*

Another example **Tiktaalik ** * located under
References
  1. ^ a b Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan.** Nature 440: 757–763. DOI:10.1038/nature04639. **
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiktaalik
 
I wouldn’t discount the value of Wikipedia.
I’m not saying all of Wikipedia is flawed. I’m saying why would a scientific organization cite as a source a website like that that can easily be flawed and full of misinformation. I expect more from a scientific organization. :rolleyes:
 
Personally I object to the title of this thread
“Science Gives Christians Upper Hand Over Atheists”

The notion that a neutral, naturalistic tool for explaining to observable world can somehow be used for scoring points in a theological wrestling match just rubs me the wrong way. Especially when, by definition, it can’t address the supernatural one way or another.

There are plenty of Christian (and Jewish and Muslim and Hindu and Buddhist) scientists and there are plenty of atheists who can’t tell their entropy from their mitochondria.

Not only is it a misuse of science but if you insist on saying that X proves or disproves God you’ve set yourself up for a fall when next year some guy in a lab coat finds out that X is wrong.
 
Donna, I recommend this bit of advice, from a man of experience:

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0607lw.asp

It seems to me that a good idea when trying to judge the evolution debate is to avoid both those that vehemently deny the possibility of God and those who vehemently deny the possibility of evolution. The middle road is generally better. 🙂
 
Nobel laureate and Pontifical Academy of Sciences ACADEMICIAN Christian DE DUVE (1) of Christian de Duve Institute of Cellular Pathology participated in The Cultural Values of Science, Plenary Session, 8-11 November 2002, Vatican City, 2003 comment, Pg. 76: 5, “The Theory of Evolution Is More than a Hypothesis- In those words, Pope John-Paul II, addressing the Pontifical Academy of Sciences in a solemn session, on 22 October 1996, expressed the acceptance of biological evolution by the Church. Considering the implications of this statement, the evidence that convinced the Pontiff must be truly decisive. And so it is. Actually, the Pope’s statement was overly cautious. Evolution is not a theory; it is a fact, implicit in the common descent of all living organisms and established with the same degree of certainty. Thanks to the information provided by fossils and complemented by molecular phylogenies, we have a rough idea of the timing and manner in which evolution has proceeded. A schematic outline of its main steps is shown in Table 1. Bacteria were the sole representatives of life on Earth during more than one billion years. The first eukaryotes emerged around 2.2 billion years ago, probably as the outcome of a long evolutionary history of which no fossil trace has yet been found; they remained unicellular for more than another billion years. It is only after life had completed some three-fourths of its history on Earth that primitive multicellular plants, fungi, and animals first appeared, slowly giving rise to more complex forms.”

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/archivio/s.v.105_cultural_values/part2.pdf
 
THE FOUR-HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE PONTIFICAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES 1603-2003, The Commemorative Session of 9 November 2003, ADDRESS OF JOHN PAUL II TO THE MEMBERS OF THE PONTIFICAL, ACADEMY OF SCIENCES

*Our gatherings have also enabled me to clarify important aspects of the Church’s doctrine and life relating to scientific research. We are united in our common desire to correct misunderstandings and even more to allow ourselves to be enlightened by the one Truth which governs the world and guides the lives of all men and women. I am more and more convinced that scientific truth, which is itself a participation in divine Truth, can help philosophy and theology to understand ever more fully the human person and God’s Revelation about man, a Revelation that is completed and perfected in Jesus Christ. For this important mutual enrichment in the search for the truth and the benefit of mankind, I am, with the whole Church, profoundly grateful.

The two topics which you have chosen for your meeting concern the life sciences, and in particular the very nature of human life. The first, Mind, Brain and Education, draws our attention to the complexity of human life and its pre-eminence over other forms of life. Neuroscience and neurophysiology, through the study of chemical and biological processes in the brain, contribute greatly to an understanding of its workings. But the study of the human mind involves more than the observable data proper to the neurological sciences. Knowledge of the human person is not derived from the level of observation and scientific analysis alone but also from the interconnection between empirical study and reflective understanding.

Scientists themselves perceive in the study of the human mind the mystery of a spiritual dimension which transcends cerebral physiology and appears to direct all our activities as free and autonomous beings, capable of responsibility and love, and marked with dignity. This is seen by the fact that you have decided to expand your research to include aspects of learning and education, which are specifically human activities.

Thus your considerations focus not just on the biological life common to all living creatures but also include the interpretive and evaluative work of the human mind.*

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_academies/acdscien/archivio/acta17_anniversary/part1.pdf
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top