Science & Religion

[StAnastasia]

Blind evolution is hardly an adequate explanation of hindsight, insight and foresight!

Evolution doesn’t have or exhibit hindsight, insight or foresight.

 

[SGWessells]

Just so. When all of those old pagans heard Christianity they had the sense to know it was correct, to see the truth of it, and they converted.

And now they are converting back. During my 12 years as a neo-pagan, almost all the other pagans I met, some of whom did indeed worship the Greek gods, grew up in Christian households.
What goes around, comes around.

 

[Shredderbeam]

Shredderbeam
**
Are you asking about an atheistic viewpoint? If so, then I don’t think that your question makes sense.**

It doesn’t make any sense to me that nature could blindly create the kind of complex mathematical laws that even a Newton or an Einstein struggled to understand. And we still don’t understand all of them … maybe never will.

Kindly explain how that is possible. Or as an atheist do you not think it has to be explained?

Well, I don’t believe that nature in an intelligence that had to design the fundamental laws. Rather, I believe that the fundamental laws describe the fundamental, or inherent properties of nature.

 

[grannymh]

Thank you for pointing that out - to a Buddhist!

I respect Rossum as a long time friend who has shared a great deal of knowledge (and at times a great sense of humour) with me.

 

[tonyrey]

Evolution doesn’t have or exhibit hindsight, insight or foresight.

That is my point!

 

[grannymh]

In modern times many people either trust in science or believe in religion but I believe the two are one.

The problem with words is that it forms a strict category where if something did not completely comply with the definition of that term, it is said to be not associated with that term.

Science is merely mans study of the environment we live in and ultimately is just a tool of God. God created what we know today as DNA, evolution, and all the periodic elements. These are just all part of his miracles in creation. But science cannot study the conscience, the faith, the belief. These too are also of God. Because they are intangible with no known way of proving or analyzing how they work, many fanatics of science rule them out altogether.

God wishes for us to believe in that which we do not know is certain, that is just how he wishes it to be. He could perform miracles for every bad situation that ever occurs in this world but why shelter your children than teach them to learn (not saying that God does not perform any miracles). Jesus was put in this world to defy what was common knowledge then and to preach the truth. Ultimately he was prosecuted, suffered, and died. Shortly he was resurrected for eternal life. Because it is hard for us, humans, to understand this, as everything in our logical reasoning minds defy this, many of us wonder what truly happened. But those that do believe, who choose to believe, who tell themselves and pray unto God, I choose to believe that which I do not see, that which I do not understand, will be blessed for it. God could have easily chosen something which we could understand, but he chose not to. This is just God’s will. You could say he delights in those who believe in the unbelievable.

As man continues his journey unto this earth and as we learn more knowledge about the earth that we live in, we discover more about this earth but less about God. Man’s reasoning is mathematic, 1 + 1 must equal 2. We apply this sort of logic with everything that we see today, whether it is the shape of a chair, or the distance it takes to get from one place to another. Through the study of our environment, we as humans feel like we understand everything about what is around us. We have become cocky, arrogant, and confident in that we have unraveled this earth and know everything about it. How false that is I cannot begin to tell you. There are things in this world that we are not meant to understand. The conscience, heroic acts, temptations, empathy, etc. We as humans must accept that there are things we are just unable to understand because we cannot touch it, cannot feel it, and cannot see it; but just because so does not mean it doesn’t exist. Man was closer to God at the beginning of time than we are now.

All in all, what I’m trying to say is this. Believe there is a higher power, Someone guiding our life, teaching us along the way. He will not force decisions upon us, but he will put us in situations where you have a choice. This choice may go against all reasoning and everyone around you will tell you that you are a fool for doing it. But listen to your heart, for your belief is there for a purpose, a means to guide you. Judge the decision by the power of that belief. And ultimately, accept to yourself, that we are merely humans who may not be designed to understand this world and how it works; so therefore, anything and everything is possible. When a situation comes where you feel as if there is no way out, pray unto Him who guides you, and He will show you the way.

Thank you for your post 1.

Small comment. Science and Religion are “one” in that both search for truth. In order for truth to be found, Science has to be conducted properly and Religion has to be properly understood.

Blessings,
granny

The human person is worthy of profound respect.

 

[You]

And now they are converting back. During my 12 years as a neo-pagan, almost all the other pagans I met, some of whom did indeed worship the Greek gods, grew up in Christian households.
What goes around, comes around.

I don’t think theres any such thing as paganism any more. Unless you are talking about the Greek gods, who don’t live on mount olympus, whom I have heard described as petty, vindictive, and drunk. But anyway, Celtic paganism is what most people talk about and it is lost, they didn’t write their beliefs down, it was all memorized and then lost when they converted to Christianity. So, whatever these people are converting to isn’t paganism, more likely is a madeup mish-mash of things they think sound paganish.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

shredderbeam

**Well, I don’t believe that nature in an intelligence that had to design the fundamental laws. Rather, I believe that the fundamental laws describe the fundamental, or inherent properties of nature. **

Intelligence itself is not intelligently designed, yet it intelligently designs?

Go figure!

If nature contains a being that can intelligently design, why is it irrational to believe that nature itself might be intelligently designed so as to produce a creature that intelligently designs???

 

[grannymh]

shredderbeam

**Well, I don’t believe that nature in an intelligence that had to design the fundamental laws. Rather, I believe that the fundamental laws describe the fundamental, or inherent properties of nature. **

Intelligence itself is not intelligently designed, yet it intelligently designs?

Go figure!

If nature contains a being that can intelligently design, why is it irrational to believe that nature itself might be intelligently designed so as to produce a creature that intelligently designs???

That is why I prefer flat-out, straight-up Catholic teaching over …various designing theories.

 

[Lui]

Your logic, as usual, is beyond reproach.

Lol I’m just waiting for the usual “evidence” link to be posted that shows a tree found with the words “Adam was here” carved into it.

 

[Lui]

Catholicism does not have a doctrine that Adam lived to be a thousand years old.

Buffalo once explained that the lived to be at least 930 or something like that. I assumed that Adam made it to the 1000 mark before he was buried in Calvary

 

[grannymh]

Lol I’m just waiting for the usual “evidence” link to be posted that shows a tree found with the words “Adam was here” carved into it.

So that’s the pre-literature writing on that old tree in my backyard!:bowdown:

Actually, our amazing human nature is the direct link to Adam or Sam or whatever the first human was really named.

 

[Lui]

And now they are converting back. During my 12 years as a neo-pagan, almost all the other pagans I met, some of whom did indeed worship the Greek gods, grew up in Christian households.
What goes around, comes around.

Yeah, I thought exactly the same thing. From all the people I know maybe 2 % believe in Christianity. The rest are either atheists or say they don’t know what will happen or believe in some New Age stuff. Both my parents were Catholic but neither of them believe in Catholicism. The first time I heard about Catholic Teachings was when I was about 14. My reaction was “are you kidding?” It’s not like Christianity makes much sense to someone who hasn’t been raised with the religion. Many so-called pagans had the choice “believe it or die” so they decided to believe it. Just go to the South American Andes and see how many Catholics indigenous still worship the Pachahmama, the mother earth, of their traditional pagan religion. They sort of mixed both religions together. 500 hundred years of exploitation couldn’t take away their pagan religion.

 

[Lui]

Actually, our amazing human nature is the direct link to Adam or Sam or whatever the first human was really named.

I believe we all evolved from a large amount of pre-human ancestors and there never were one set of parents. Actually most people believe this because the evidence is over-whelming. Even scientists of the Vatican believe this and every Catholic priest I’ve talked to. I know that Catholics MUST believe in Adam and Eve but oddly all priests I’ve discussed this topic with tell me we have to view this as symbolism.

 

[grannymh]

I believe we all evolved from a large amount of pre-human ancestors and there never were one set of parents. Actually most people believe this because the evidence is over-whelming. Even scientists of the Vatican believe this and every Catholic priest I’ve talked to. I know that Catholics MUST believe in Adam and Eve but oddly all priests I’ve discussed this topic with tell me we have to view this as symbolism.

Over-whelming evidence.



I would suggest starting a thread in a forum where real research can be discussed by people who actually know how to read real research; but it would be a very short thread.

I would suggest that you read the book which has contemporary Catholic teaching; but unfortunately, too many people in your area have dismissed it, including some, not all, priests.

These days, it takes guts and persistence to find out about Catholicism.

 

[Wardog]

I seriously doubt that any of them personally wrote one word of the Gospels. Even if they were eye-witnesses, it doesn’t prove anything in the Gospels is true. I’m not even convinced it is certain they even existed.
I don’t intend to mock the Gospels. It’s just what I believe. In general my intention is not to mock religion. Not believing something isn’t equal to mocking something. I know no one said I did but I just wanted to make it clear.

If Jesus did not exist, he certainly left quite a legacy. Right down to the date. You do remember that this is the Year of the Lord Two Thousand and Eleven. That is pretty impressive for an imaginary fellow.

 

[Lui]

Over-whelming evidence.



.

Yeah, but to believe that 7 billion humans are the descendants of one guy created out of clay and a women out of his rib who sinned(pursuaded by a talking reptile) for eating a forbidden fruit based on a 3000 year old book is SOOOOO believable

If Jesus did not exist, he certainly left quite a legacy. Right down to the date. You do remember that this is the Year of the Lord Two Thousand and Eleven. That is pretty impressive for an imaginary fellow.

Why not? The Romans used Christianity for political reasons which led to Christianity to spread around the world. Maybe if circumstances were different we would be having this conversation about the Roman Gods. Btw, I never claimed Jesus never existed.

 

[nonanon]

Well, I don’t believe that nature in an intelligence that had to design the fundamental laws. Rather, I believe that the fundamental laws describe the fundamental, or inherent properties of nature.

But the key questions are, “Where did ‘nature’ or ‘the fundamental laws’ come from?” and, “Why do they exist at all?” The answers to those questions lie outside of science.

 

[tonyrey]

Yeah, but to believe that 7 billion humans are the descendants of one guy created out of clay and a women out of his rib who sinned(pursuaded by a talking reptile) for eating a forbidden fruit based on a 3000 year old book is SOOOOO believable.

To believe 7 billion humans are the fortunate descendants of inanimate dust is the most convincing explanation that has ever been cooked up by half-baked noodles!

 

[Lui]

To believe 7 billion humans are the fortunate descendants of inanimate dust is the most convincing explanation that has ever been cooked up by half-baked noodles!

At least science HAS evidence. The belief of Adam and Eve is based on nothing but a 3000 year old book. Why did John Paul II believe in evolution if it is all half-baked nonsense?
Maybe you can explain when and how Adam and Eve fit into the time line of human history.
What were the Homo species like Homo erectus or Homo habilis according to your theory?