Science & Religion

[You]

Your post was perfectly clear, and I had no problem reading it.

You read it but did you get it?

Now it is you having trouble reading posts. I said nothing about Genesis being incorrect. I said that the literal interpretation of Genesis was incorrect. There are many different interpretations of Genesis; not all of them are correct.

Why did I not think of that? Interpretations.

This is not a fact, it is false. Geology shows that at no time since the origin of man has all of the Earth been simultaneously covered with water. Parts of the Earth are covered, but there has always been dry land for men to live on.

You don’t get my post.

False. We have enough DNA sequences of tetrapods to know that very few of them have a recent genetic bottleneck down to one breeding pair, or seven breeding pairs. There are a few known examples, like cheetahs, but their existence just points up the fact that there are no similar observations for thousands of other species.

You don’t get my post, rossum.

You are being lied to by creationist sources. Modern geology does not confirm a recent worldwide flood, it strongly disconfirms it. Modern palaeontology does not confirm a recent worldwide flood, it strongly disconfirms it.

rossum

You don’t get my post. I said nothing about Global floods, one breeding pairs etc.

 

[You]

Surely you jest young sir, this is where we came in.

Geology (tectonic plates and so on) says at various times some of the land is above sea level while other land is below sea level. I don’t remember ever hearing geologists saying all the land, including the mountain tops, was below sea level at the very same moment. I’d be interested in that, which is why I asked you to cite the theory if you remember. I can imagine a possible case for it in the long distant past, but long before mammals, long before humans, long before any of the mountains that are around today, including the one the supposed ark is supposed to have docked on.

I want to tell you, inocente, all about the most distinctive character of calcalkaline compared with tholeiitic suites, reflecting the relative timing of phase saturation with Fe–Ti oxides, plagioclase, and ferromagnesian silicates. But you can’t understand this right now. I will tell you a short story instead about a real man named Nobby and trouble and volcanoes and earthquakes under the depths of the sea. Or maybe I’ll tell you a short story about a programmer, called Nokki who was a real person, working with the Geological Institute of America on a computer program for studying Icelandic volcanoes and deep Atlantic basalt in Hawaii.
But it is all real however you tell it!

 

[Lui]

You should read the last post, I think, from me about the Tuatha de Dannan and the bronze casters. I sometimes wonder if some people are really genetically unable to imagine.

Show me the scientific evidence. You sometimes wonder if some people are really genetically unable to imagine what? The story of Noah as a historical story?

 

[rossum]

You don’t get my post, rossum.

Then please explain exactly what it is that I didn’t get. What are you saying is the correct interpretation of the Genesis flood? What happened and when? How much of the surface of the Earth was covered with water?

rossum

 

[You]

Then please explain exactly what it is that I didn’t get. What are you saying is the correct interpretation of the Genesis flood? What happened and when? How much of the surface of the Earth was covered with water?

rossum

The exact interpretation probably is not known beyond the fact that all the earth was covered with water. That most species died. That some species were saved.

 

[You]

Show me the scientific evidence. You sometimes wonder if some people are really genetically unable to imagine what? The story of Noah as a historical story?

As a real story. What scientific evidence would you like, I already said that all the earth was covered with water at some stage or another. You could have used all of you faculties to try to imagine how Noah might be true, that includes using your imagination. Stories served several purposes; they were to interest the audience, to fuel the imagination, and to convey the truth. If you bored the audience or talked over their heads your story will not be understood nor remembered.

 

[Lui]

As a real story. What scientific evidence would you like, I already said that all the earth was covered with water at some stage or another.

Show me scientific evidence that the earth was once completely covered with water. Your word isn’t enough for me to believe it.

You could have used all of you faculties to try to imagine how Noah might be true, that includes using your imagination. Stories served several purposes; they were to interest the audience, to fuel the imagination, and to convey the truth. If you bored the audience or talked over their heads your story will not be understood nor remembered.

I have a lot of imagination but I’m still 100% certain the story of Noah never happened.

 

[You]

Show me scientific evidence that the earth was once completely covered with water. Your word isn’t enough for me to believe it.

Pick up any geology book.

I have a lot of imagination but I’m still 100% certain the story of Noah never happened.

So use it. Tell me how Noah’s Flood might happen.

 

[Lui]

Pick up any geology book.

We have the internet. If you make these claims, it should be easy to post a link that explains when and how long the whole earth was completely covered with water AFTER humans already existed.

So use it. Tell me how Noah’s Flood might happen.

I’ve done that many times to conclude it never happened. I have enough imagination to imagine how the story of Noah and all the stories of the Bible were created by man though

 

[You]

We have the internet. If you make these claims, it should be easy to post a link that explains when and how long the whole earth was completely covered with water AFTER humans already existed.

You just changed the parameters of your demand. Why would you do that. I mentioned nothing about humans.

I’ve done that many times to conclude it never happened. I have enough imagination to imagine how the story of Noah and all the stories of the Bible were created by man though

No. your assignment is not to imagine how it was not done. Your assignment is to imagine how it might happen.

 

[Lui]

You just changed the parameters of your demand. Why would you do that. I mentioned nothing about humans.

Well, obviously if the story of Noah is real, the flood came AFTER humans existed

No. your assignment is not to imagine how it was not done. Your assignment is to imagine how it might happen.

First of all I don’t do “assignments” given to me by random people from the internet. I already answered your question. I imagined all possibilities there are that the story of Noah could have taken place but my conclusion is that it can not haven taken place. It is impossible and never happened.

 

[StAnastasia]

I don’t know what you mean. Both Noah and modern geology say all the earth was covered by water.

Modern geology says no such thing.

 

[StAnastasia]

What do you mean, Noahs Flood did not happen?
Every bit of land on earths globe was covered by water at some stage or another. That is modern geological fact.

False.

 

[You]

Well, obviously if the story of Noah is real, the flood came AFTER humans existed

What makes you say that?

First of all I don’t do “assignments” given to me by random people from the internet. I already answered your question. I imagined all possibilities there are that the story of Noah could have taken place but my conclusion is that it can not haven taken place. It is impossible and never happened.

I cannot force you to use your imagination. But begin with the central point Noah and the geologists agree on; the earth was covered with water.

 

[You]

Modern geology says no such thing.

Yes, it does.

 

[StAnastasia]

How would you justify that conclusion?

Because once you cease to assert that God exists, and say that it is a matter of probability, you have opened the door to people concluding that it is more probable that God does not exist, given the lack of empirical evidence for God.

 

[StAnastasia]

21st century Catholics need to be updated that the phrase “evolution by natural selection” has changed meanings.

No - Granny needs to be updated. “Evolution by natural selection” is still a central component of the new evolutionary synthesis, which has been strengthened year by year since it’s proposal in 1859.

 

[StAnastasia]

It is certainly important to specify whether natural selection excludes rational direction by God. Fortuitous combinations of molecules and **random **mutations of genes are an inadequate explanation of the development of highly advanced forms of life.

Tonrey, how would you evaluate your proposal? So-called “Intelligent Design” has failed for twenty years to come up with any discoveries supporting your view. From Philips Johnson to Michael Behe to Bill Dembski, every attempt to show that biology offers an inadequate explanation has been shown to be a pathetic failure.

 

[StAnastasia]

Do you have a citation for that? I’m not a geologist and am wondering how a claim that every bit of land was simultaneously under water could be demonstrated.

But even if that was the case, you’d need a whole lot more to validate such a preposterously tall story. For instance, to raise the sea level to cover the not especially high Mount Ararat, where the ark landed, you’d need to explain how it could rain 420 feet per day all over the world for forty days and forty nights. In comparison the highest recorded local level for a much shorter period was 74 inches. Plus a load of other questions. Puh-lease.

The water would have to have stood 29,053 feet deep, and this is not possible. There is not enough water on earth for it, and in any case, where did it drain after the flood.

 

[rossum]

What makes you say that?

1 Noah was human.
2 Noah was alive during the flood.
3 Therefore the flood happened after humans (Noah and others) had appeared on the Earth.

Was that really so difficult?

Or are you claiming that Noah was not human? That Noah was not alive during the flood?

I cannot force you to use your imagination. But begin with the central point Noah and the geologists agree on; the earth was covered with water.

The geologists agree that the Earth was not entirely covered with water during the lifetime of any possible human ‘Noah’.

rossum