Scientists crushed as ‘Big Bang’ evidence evaporates on further analysis

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If the universe has no beginning, then the problems of infinite time arise.

If time is infinite, how did we reach this exact moment in time? There is an infinite amount of time before this moment. We could never reach this moment in time.
 
Too much information on the internet + journalistic sensationalism

Leave that question to physicists and follow reputable science journals which summarise the latest finding and make it understandable to the general public.
 
A few comments on this situation
  1. we as catholics are not bound to hold any specific scientific ideas, now I’m not so sure about this that the universe has a beginning. If science reasonably shoes that the universe is in-fact eternal somehow than I’m not sure how we should approach this issue. For thousands of years the world has seen the universe as finite as having a beginning. If this really does prove to be true, how do we as catholics approach it.
  2. Don’t for one second thing because theology says that the universe has a beginning that it must necessarily be that way. Theology can’t say anything about science, a disproof of science using theology will never work.
  3. While faith tells us the universe began, reason doesn’t necessitate that, and even if the universe didn’t began we still posit the existence of God, and Aquinas’s arguments for God’s existence still work.
  4. I honestly don’t think science can ever know if the universe is eternal or finite definitively.
I would give some time for this to start to play out, this could be an attempt that proves to be wrong in the future, who knows. Just because some website says it happened doesn’t mean it’s true.
 
If the universe has no beginning, then the problems of infinite time arise.

If time is infinite, how did we reach this exact moment in time? There is an infinite amount of time before this moment. We could never reach this moment in time.
That isn’t really a problem, the very fact that we exist here necessitates that we can make it to this time. You are just using clever language. Even on an infinite line there are still points, and spaces.
 
Once again, theory is being angled is “fact”. The theory of evolution is still a theory and the lab is right outside our doors. This is a sign of theory over fact science can’t explain it so it by-passes it but it doesn’t explain away gravitional waves bor an expanding universe.-is this just aanother “Straw Dog”?altogether
 
Once again, theory is being angled is “fact”. The theory of evolution is still a theory and the lab is right outside our doors. This is a sign of theory over fact science can’t explain it so it by-passes it but it doesn’t explain away gravitional waves bor an expanding universe.-is this just aanother “Straw Dog”?altogether
I wish people would get the difference between the every-day meaning of theory and it’s usage in science …
 
I wish people would get the difference between the every-day meaning of theory and it’s usage in science …
Agreed. The end of the story has a very nice chart showing precisely that. This theory is just another step in the understanding of our universe and further opens the possibility of other universes. Fascinating stuff.
 
Agreed. The end of the story has a very nice chart showing precisely that. This theory is just another step in the understanding of our universe and further opens the possibility of other universes. Fascinating stuff.
That’s cute little diagram. In practice it is a bit more complex.
I normally don’t get my wisdom from Wikipedia, but it gives a fairly good idea of what’s involved when we talk of scientific theories:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory
 
If the universe has no beginning, then the problems of infinite time arise.

If time is infinite, how did we reach this exact moment in time? There is an infinite amount of time before this moment. We could never reach this moment in time.
Infinity is in reality impossible, isn’t it?

It is an imaginary number that cannot be quantified.
 
I’ve watched Jimmy Akin’s discussion of the issue of whether an eternal universe is necessarily in conflict with Church teaching here. He concludes that there is necessarily a conflict. I’m not sure about that. It seems to me that, at least in theory, an “eternal universe” can be reconciled with the idea of ex nihilo creation “at the beginning of time” as articulated by the Fourth Lateran Council (and affirmed by the First Vatican Council). Even if the universe (and, as a consequence, time) has “always” existed, God could have created, “at the beginning”, a universe in which time “always” existed. Thus, when the councils refer to the creation of the world at the “beginning of time”, they can be read as referring to creation at the beginning of the “conception” of time–not to creation at the beginning of “temporal” time. (Just as a footnote, I do understand that it appears St. Thomas Aquinas believed the proclamation of the Fourth Lateran Council required belief in a temporal beginning of the universe.)

Very curious to hear anyone else’s thoughts on this.
 
I wish people would get the difference between the every-day meaning of theory and it’s usage in science …
[Just an aside] Speaking from a grammar angle, I wish people would get the difference between it’s and its. Not a big deal, but as long as we are on the subject of common misunderstandings and seeking to enlighten one another…🙂
Its vs. it’s
Its, without an apostrophe, is the possessive of the pronoun it. It’s, with an apostrophe, is a contraction of it is or it has. If you’re not sure which spelling to use, try replacing it with it is or it has. If neither of those phrases works in its place, then its is the word you’re looking for.
Most English speakers are comfortable with the difference between its and it’s, yet even the most careful writers mix them up in careless moments. Such errors are typos, not grammar mistakes (there is a difference), and can usually be stamped out with a quick proofread. None of us is immune to these mistakes, so let’s not be too hard on people who make the occasional its/it’s slip-up.
 
From the link: “Ali has now managed to resolve the issue by creating a new model in which the Universe is infinite, and the Big Bang singularity never occurred - although it still expanded from a far denser form.”

All I can glean from the article is that cosmologists don’t like the idea of a singularity, and so created a new equation and a new model to eliminate it. I don’t see that there is any actual observational evidence, but the article was pretty unclear. After all, the big bang was originally proposed as a solution to the problem of the observed universal red-shift, indicating that the galaxies were all moving away from one another and in the past had been much closer.

I get that they do not like singularities, but is that reason enough to propose a new theory? I have no idea.

As to divine creation, I see no reason why God could not create a universe that extends infinitely in time (and space) rather than one that has a temporal beginning. (But theologically speaking, that’s not an “eternal” universe. Eternity is the absence of time, not its infinite extension.) Such a universe still requires a creator.

Personally, I find the Big Bang more elegant, but I’m not quantum physicist.
 
As to divine creation, I see no reason why God could not create a universe that extends infinitely in time (and space) rather than one that has a temporal beginning. (But theologically speaking, that’s not an “eternal” universe. Eternity is the absence of time, not its infinite extension.) Such a universe still requires a creator.

Personally, I find the Big Bang more elegant, but I’m not quantum physicist.
Yes, I agree. An infinite universe would not negate the concept of a creator.
 
[Just an aside] Speaking from a grammar angle, I wish people would get the difference between it’s and its. Not a big deal, but as long as we are on the subject of common misunderstandings and seeking to enlighten one another…🙂
I am normally a stickler in matters of grammar, but it’s easy to make a typing mistake and overlooking it or not to bother correcting it. And I don’t think it’s necessary to highlight that … 🙂
 
I am normally a stickler in matters of grammar, but it’s easy to make a typing mistake and overlooking it or not to bother correcting it. And I don’t think it’s necessary to highlight that … 🙂
🙂
Yea, not necessary, but who can resist sticking it to a stickler?😛
 
I am normally a stickler in matters of grammar, but it’s easy to make a typing mistake and overlooking it or not to bother correcting it. And I don’t think it’s necessary to highlight that … 🙂
No worries, just wanted to see if you had a sense of humor. 😃 I have developed this horrible habit of typing in sentence fragments left and right. Used to never do it. I was afraid you would point that out. 😉
 
Time has no beginning and no end, but not so the universe…"
Got some support for that statement?

Time must have a beginning or else we have eternal continual creation of time by God which makes sequential events impossible as everything would be simultaneous, wouldn’t it?
 
That isn’t really a problem, the very fact that we exist here necessitates that we can make it to this time.
You beg the question, sir, of how can one arrive at the present if we have an infinite sequential regression of finite segments of time.

That we are here necessitates not one thing in regard to infinite regression.
That You are just using clever language. Even on an infinite line there are still points, and spaces.
But those points and spaces are merely implied and not physically represented.

Even in the abstract, you are simply imagining a set of points and segments that are defined as being of infinite extent, but you are ignoring the difficulties involved in having a sequential succession of those segments of time.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to proceed from the present into an infinite point in the future as there is no end to the segments of time. To do the opposite, start at infinite distant past and arrive at the present is just as impossible in a sequential order of events.

All this is true if you do not toss ‘God is creating time and space continuously for all time’ which no one advocates as true, not theists nor atheists.

Unless you know someone that does.
 
You beg the question, sir, of how can one arrive at the present if we have an infinite sequential regression of finite segments of time.

That we are here necessitates not one thing in regard to infinite regression.

But those points and spaces are merely implied and not physically represented.

Even in the abstract, you are simply imagining a set of points and segments that are defined as being of infinite extent, but you are ignoring the difficulties involved in having a sequential succession of those segments of time.

It is IMPOSSIBLE to proceed from the present into an infinite point in the future as there is no end to the segments of time. To do the opposite, start at infinite distant past and arrive at the present is just as impossible in a sequential order of events.

All this is true if you do not toss ‘God is creating time and space continuously for all time’ which no one advocates as true, not theists nor atheists.

Unless you know someone that does.
What your saying is an interesting thought experiment but it doesn’t disprove that the universe can’t be enteral. We exist at point who knows what, but just because we exist at a point doesn’t mean it can’t be eternal. I know I exist, i know things exist before me and will exist after me, but we don’t know how long that goes on for. Divine revelation does say in the beginning, and it appears that there was a beginning to the universe. But reason alone can’t show that the cosmos is either finite or eternal. I don’t know the quote or reference, but Aquinas mentions this. Reason can’t prove the universe is finite or infinite, but faith tells us it’s finite.

I know I responded to this in general but I must bring this out.
All this is true if you do not toss ‘God is creating time and space continuously for all time’ which no one advocates as true, not theists nor atheists.
From what I read about this statement is this. Correct me if I’m wrong it’s not super clear.

You are saying no-one holds that God is constantly for all time creating time and space?

Implying that God did at once and stepped back or is not actively holding up existence or actively creating time and space.

Many people including myself believe that God is for eternity and in a single moment creating the universe.

Let’s bring some theology into this.

Was there a point in time when the father begot the son? (I’m talking about the trinity)
IF yes, than the son is less than the father therefore not divine.
if no, than the son is entirely created by the father, meaning the son has no origin in time but only in the father.

Catholic dogma holds point 2

God’s single act of creation is an act that is continually actualized for all eternity. We see it as a time because that is where, in a sense, God broke into our creation and our reality. But for God that is continually happening.

It is very plausible that God could have created an enteral universe. What does that do to in the beginning from Genesis I have no idea, but it’s not outside of the realm of possibility. Is it outside of the realm of faith, I honestly don’t know.
 
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