Scientists Find Soft Tissue in T-Rex Bone

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The point is that evolution claims that men are descended from savage beasts, i.e. non-rational animals, animals without rational souls. To say that Christ is the son of a savage beast – whatever name you happen to give it – is blasphemous/sacrilegous.
Again, the Church does not teach that this thought it blasphemous. I’m sorry, but your opinion does not match the teachings of the Church in this regard.
I believe you are misinformed about a lot. Let’s consider something else about which there has been some debate like whether Our Lady died before being assumed into Heaven. Those who argue that she did OF COURSE argue that there is a theological reason to reject that she didn’t and also vice versa: those who argue that she didn’t likewise OF COURSE argue that there is a theological reason to reject that she did. Now, whether Our Lady died before being assumed into Heaven is not a Catholic dogma. But that doesn’t mean that there cannot be or cannot be argued to be theological reasons to hold one or the other position and reject the other See what I mean? That’s where you are going all wrong in your pro-evolution fanaticism.
Exactly, but you seem to be missing your own point here. Each side can argue, but neither side can say that the other view is heretical or opposed to Church teaching. That is what you are doing with evolution. No one here is saying the same about creationism.
 
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tuopaolo:
I don’t reject science; I reject pseudo-science…
When you claim that science says Man descended from monkeys, or chimpanzees, I have to admit I question your ability to distinguish between true science and pseudo-science.

And to date, you have not offered a single scientific argument.
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tuopaolo:
It doesn’t matter whether you want to call it “monkey” or “ape” or “chimpanzee” or whatever. The point is that evolution claims that men are descended from savage beasts, i.e. non-rational animals, animals without rational souls. To say that Christ is the son of a savage beast – whatever name you happen to give it – is blasphemous/sacrilegous…
Are you a Catholic? Do you know the Apostle’s Creed?

Christ is the son of God, begotten of the Holy Spirit.

The Church accepts that the proposition that man evolved from earlier creatures is not in conflict with the Bible or with the teaching of the Church.
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tuopaolo:
I believe you are misinformed about a lot. Let’s consider something else about which there has been some debate like whether Our Lady died before being assumed into Heaven. Those who argue that she did OF COURSE argue that there is a theological reason to reject that she didn’t and also vice versa: those who argue that she didn’t likewise OF COURSE argue that there is a theological reason to reject that she did. Now, whether Our Lady died before being assumed into Heaven is not a Catholic dogma. But that doesn’t mean that there cannot be or cannot be argued to be theological reasons to hold one or the other position and reject the other See what I mean? That’s where you are going all wrong in your pro-evolution fanaticism.
I think you have a smokescreen there.

And when you accuse other people of fanaticism, you have exceeded the bounds of Christian disputation.

It’s an insult, and I expect an apology.
 
rtforum.org/lt/lt73.html

**DID THE HUMAN BODY EVOLVE NATURALLY? **
**A FORGOTTEN PAPAL DECLARATION **

by Fr Brian W. Harrison

I don’t agree with everything in the article but it’s a good read nevertheless.
 
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Ghosty:
Again, the Church does not teach that this thought it blasphemous. I’m sorry, but your opinion does not match the teachings of the Church in this regard.
Maybe she doesn’t. But she also doesn’t say that it isn’t blasphemous. So I am free to hold that it is since she doesn’t say that it isn’t. You seem to be reasonable. I hope you will see my point here.
 
vern humphrey:
When you claim that science says Man descended from monkeys, or chimpanzees, I have to admit I question your ability to distinguish between true science and pseudo-science.
Evolution claims that men descended from savage beasts, i.e. non-rational animals. Your fellow evolutionist Ghosty has acknowledged that. You should read his posts.
And to date, you have not offered a single scientific argument.
You are assuming that theology is not science. The Church calls theology a sacred science.
Are you a Catholic? Do you know the Apostle’s Creed?
Yes I am Catholic and yes I know the Apostles’ Creed.
The Church accepts that the proposition that man evolved from earlier creatures is not in conflict with the Bible
This is just not true. The number of scripture verses that the Church has infallibly interpreted is very limited, only about two dozen or so verses. So obviously the Church would not say that evolution is not in conflict with the Bible since she hasn’t infallibly interpreted the whole Bible yet (and probably never will).
And when you accuse other people of fanaticism, you have exceeded the bounds of Christian disputation.

It’s an insult, and I expect an apology.
I apologize for not being more sensitive and polite. Not to take anything away from my apology, but I suggest you look back at your own posts since some of them seemed pretty insulting themselves.
 
Maybe she doesn’t. But she also doesn’t say that it isn’t blasphemous. So I am free to hold that it is since she doesn’t say that it isn’t. You seem to be reasonable. I hope you will see my point here.
The Church doesn’t permit people to hold blasphemous positions, but the Church does allow us to hold the opinion that the human body evolved. One can easily infer, then, that the Church teaches that the view isn’t blasphemous.
Evolution claims that men descended from savage beasts, i.e. non-rational animals. Your fellow evolutionist Ghosty has acknowledged that. You should read his posts.
That isn’t his point. He’s talking about the fact that chimps and apes didn’t exist while humans were evolving. We are descended from common, non-ape ancestors. It just a common misunderstanding that many creationists hold.
This is just not true. The number of scripture verses that the Church has infallibly interpreted is very limited, only about two dozen or so verses. So obviously the Church would not say that evolution is not in conflict with the Bible since she hasn’t infallibly interpreted the whole Bible yet (and probably never will).
The Church doesn’t have to infallibly interpret a passage in order for us to hold an opinion. The Papacy has stated, through a few different Popes now, that evolution is acceptable when it accepts certain premises, which I’ve listed above. The article you cited misses this point because the purpose of that document was not to treat on human origins, but marriage. The documents that allow for evolution to be accepted are Papal Encyclicals specifically dealing with the origins of humanity.
 
tuopaolo said:
answersingenesis.org/docs2005/0325Dino_tissue.asp
(not a catholic website but afaik there’s nothing anti-catholic on it)
Still soft and stretchy

Dinosaur soft tissue find—a stunning rebuttal of “millions of years”

I know that I am a little late with this, but in regard you statement that AIG is not anti-catholic, these quotes are from their Statement of Faith (which, by the way, all of their employees must agree to as a condition of their employment):
Basics:

  1. *]The 66 books of the Bible are the written Word of God. The Bible is divinely inspired and inerrant throughout. Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority, not only in all matters of faith and conduct, but in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.
    *]The final guide to the interpretation of Scripture is Scripture itself.

  1. C. Theology

    1. *]Salvation is a gift received by faith alone in Christ alone and expressed in the individual’s repentance, recognition of the death of Christ as full payment for sin, and acceptance of the risen Christ as Saviour, Lord and God.

    1. As for their scientific credibility, this is the last of of their statement. Remember, anyone who works for them MUST swear by this to remain employed.

      1. *]By definition, no apparent, perceived or claimed evidence in any field, including history and chronology, can be valid if it contradicts the Scriptural record. Of primary importance is the fact that evidence is always subject to interpretation by fallible people who do not possess all information.

      1. Peace

        Tim
 
Tim,

Thanks for pointing that out. While I do not agree with the Sola Scriptura that may be expressed in the first statement and with their canon, I agree completely with their stance on how “science” “history” cannot overturn the word of God which for us Catholics is authoritatively proclaimed and taught by the magisterium.

The word of God is inerrant. The extraordinary magisterium and the ordinary, universal magisterium is infallible. “Scientists” “historians” OTOH are neither of these things. So I will always cleave to Him and to His Church, placing my faith in Him rather than in any “scientists” and “historians.” Even if all the “scientists” and “historians” in the world were to say that the Catholic faith is not true, I would not believe them.
 
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tuopaolo:
The word of God is inerrant. The extraordinary magisterium and the ordinary, universal magisterium is infallible. “Scientists” “historians” OTOH are neither of these things. So I will always cleave to Him and to His Church, placing my faith in Him rather than in any “scientists” and “historians.” Even if all the “scientists” and “historians” in the world were to say that the Catholic faith is not true, I would not believe them.
Until, of course, the Catholic faith says something you don’t agree with.
 
The Catholic faith will never proclaim evolution as a dogma. Considering an impossible hypothetical like that is silly. Nevertheless since you brought it up, hypothetically if the magisterium were to solemnly define some aspect of evolution as revealed by God, I would assent to it. Until then(again something that would never happen), I will remain for ever opposed to it.
 
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tuopaolo:
The Catholic faith will never proclaim evolution as a dogma. Considering an impossible hypothetical like that is silly. Nevertheless since you brought it up, hypothetically if the magisterium were to solemnly define some aspect of evolution as revealed by God, I would assent to it. Until then(again something that would never happen), I will remain for ever opposed to it.
Who said the Church would define evolution as a dogma?

You’ve shown a readiness to take a positon and then search for justification for it, often using various sources out of context. That is the classic symptom of one who rejects the authority of the Church, and sets himself up as the final arbiter of Truth.
 
Long ago people used to see this beast:

It was huge, fed on grass like an ox, his loins had great strength and also in his sinews of his belly. It had a tail like a tree, and the sinews of his thighs were like cables. It’s bones were like bronze tubes and his frame like iron rods.

Do you think this was a dinosaur?
 
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catholic2:
Long ago people used to see this beast:

It was huge, fed on grass like an ox, his loins had great strength and also in his sinews of his belly. It had a tail like a tree, and the sinews of his thighs were like cables. It’s bones were like bronze tubes and his frame like iron rods.

Do you think this was a dinosaur?
Not likely, given that dinosaurs disappeared long before the first homonids came along.

Now, if you’re looking for a candidate beast (assuming this is a real beast and not a metaphor) something like an Aurochs or a Mammoth is a far more likely candidate.
 
catholic2,

Maybe. Some people think that the stories and historical accounts about dragons may be witness to dinosaurs also.
 
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catholic2:
Long ago people used to see this beast:

It was huge, fed on grass like an ox, his loins had great strength and also in his sinews of his belly. It had a tail like a tree, and the sinews of his thighs were like cables. It’s bones were like bronze tubes and his frame like iron rods.

Do you think this was a dinosaur?
Wasn’t behemoth a hippopotamus?
 
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Windmill:
I bet you could sell that T=Rex tissue for a bunch on Ebay
Dinosaur bones and skeletons are big business. Amateur dinosaur hunters/diggers have made a cottage industry by digging up fossils in the Dakotas and selling them to the highest bidder. A small T-Rex skeleton was sold to the Japanese for about $5 million.

Professional paleontologists complain that these ‘pirates’ are ruining prime fossil beds, and now ‘shovel bums’ must take a basic paleontology course and document their finds.

There is a ‘Shovel Bum’ website on the internet.
 
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tuopaolo:
catholic2,

Maybe. Some people think that the stories and historical accounts about dragons may be witness to dinosaurs also.
There is a fasinating book I read last year called: THE FIRST FOSSIL HUNTERS: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times (c. 2000) by Adrienne Mayor, where this graduate student found that the ancient Romans and Greeks had museums and exhibited dinosaur fossils though they thought they were the bones of ‘Griffons’ and ‘Dragons’ .
 
Kevin Walker:
There is a fasinating book I read last year called: THE FIRST FOSSIL HUNTERS: Paleontology in Greek and Roman Times (c. 2000) by Adrienne Mayor, where this graduate student found that the ancient Romans and Greeks had museums and exhibited dinosaur fossils though they thought they were the bones of ‘Griffons’ and ‘Dragons’ .
There was a mammoth skeleton found in Virginia in the late 1700s – Thomas Jefferson helped finance the dig and appears in a painting, “The Excavation of the Mammoth.”

There’s an interesting aside to that – it was obviously some kind of an elephant, and without a Theory of Evolution, they lacked a Theory of Extinction – if no new species are arising, and animals can go extinct, soon all life will vanish!

So Jefferson expected Lewis and Clark to find live mammoths. For many years the old Mountain Men told stories about the “elephants” they supposedly saw in the unexplored west.

Immigrants on the Overland Trails joked they were “going to see the elephant.” Some of these people broke down psychologically under the hardships they encountered and were said to have “seen the elephant.”

During the Civil War, soliders suffering from what today we call combat psychoses were seen to exhibit the same symptoms as people who broke down on the trail, and they also were said to have “seen the elephant.”

To this day, American soldiers refer to iintense combat as “seeing the elephant.”
 
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