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Seamus_Sully
Guest
The universe is permeated with reason and is reasonable.
From where did this reason come?
From where did this reason come?
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I_Leatherman
Guest
:crying:…It came from the source of reason?
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
From where did all of the reason in the universe come?
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ricmat
Guest
You need to read or listen to some alternative views (please!)
A good start is “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization”, available at your local library.
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Sixtus
Guest
I never said 'heavy matter came from collapses.
I said energy/matter potentiality. That is not energy or matter but pre-matter. If matter did not exist as re-matter, it could not possess atomic structure since that structure is dependent upon potentiality for attraction and hence sub-atomic and atomic structure.
Matter we know did not exist in the primitive universe since the prevailing temperature was too hot for matter to form. It existed in the primieval state of photons
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JoeyWarren
Guest
What is the status of these two…for lack of a better term at this writing…theories?
A. The Universe is expanding.
B. The expansion is deaccelerating.
If these two are true, what is the theory of what happens when the expansion stops?
A. The Universe is expanding.
B. The expansion is deaccelerating.
If these two are true, what is the theory of what happens when the expansion stops?
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ricmat
Guest
Time stops.
Then if the universe falls back in on itself, time reverses.
Or so I’ve heard.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
Africa - comprised of mostly third world nations, which are very poor and plagued by epidemics.
Asia - many third world nations with a few modern (last 50 years) nations. Most of the population, even in the advanced nation of China, live in poverty, are plagued by epidemics and are (due mostly to politics) very oppressed.
Americas - until the arrival of the Europeans, was very primitive in the way of the cultures of the peoples.
Middle East - after the Islamic conquest, it was actually quite learned for the first couple centuries of Muslim rule. But, as most will attest, Islam seems stagnated around the ninth century.
Why, if Mother Church is so scientifically oppresive, haven’t these non-Christian/non-Catholic lands been pillars of science and discovery. Why weren’t Ugandans on the moon in the ninteenth century. Or why didn’t the Vietnamese discovery and utilize atomic energy a couple hundred years ago. Why didn’t the Incans use antibiotics and vaccines to ward off the diseases brought by the Conquistadors.
And why is it that the wealthiest nations on Earth, for nearly the past millenium, have been European (America is really a European/British nation). Why has scientific discovery and the Age of Exploration (begun before the Reformation) been driven by Catholic countries.
How could anyone possibly think this? If this were true, then those places in the world where the Church had not ventured to significantly should be very, very advanced and have absolutely no poverty, and be almost utopian. This should be the case according to your logic. Okay, let us look at those areas of the world.
Africa - comprised of mostly third world nations, which are very poor and plagued by epidemics.
Asia - many third world nations with a few modern (last 50 years) nations. Most of the population, even in the advanced nation of China, live in poverty, are plagued by epidemics and are (due mostly to politics) very oppressed.
Americas - until the arrival of the Europeans, was very primitive in the way of the cultures of the peoples.
Middle East - after the Islamic conquest, it was actually quite learned for the first couple centuries of Muslim rule. But, as most will attest, Islam seems stagnated around the ninth century.
Why, if Mother Church is so scientifically oppresive, haven’t these non-Christian/non-Catholic lands been pillars of science and discovery. Why weren’t Ugandans on the moon in the ninteenth century. Or why didn’t the Vietnamese discovery and utilize atomic energy a couple hundred years ago. Why didn’t the Incans use antibiotics and vaccines to ward off the diseases brought by the Conquistadors.
And why is it that the wealthiest nations on Earth, for nearly the past millenium, have been European (America is really a European/British nation). Why has scientific discovery and the Age of Exploration (begun before the Reformation) been driven by Catholic countries.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
The universe is permeated with reason and is reasonable.
From where did this reason come?
From where did this reason come?
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JoeyWarren
Guest
Wkould this give credence to the blurb in the Bible about the end of time?
The Rubberband effect?
The universe in it’s entirety will come back to a single point and BANGS again thus creating a new Heaven and a new Earth?
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Sixtus
Guest
It is not as simple as that. Apart from which, it would not make sense else we would rise from our graves to go back into our mothers wombs
Christ would be crucified but in reverse, finishing with His triumphal entry into Jerusalem and backwards until He became what He always was
There is evidence that matter is speeding up but that it takes energy and sooner of later, runs out of steam so that matter becomes so sparce, there is not enough but single atoms floating around in a universe millions times bigger than it is at present! From a credit to the Creator perspective, that simply does not make sense
There is no such thing as a free meal ticket. Once energy is expanded, it ceases to expand. Logical?
A collapsing universe is not only logical but inevitable, giving way to what you call 'a new heaven and a new earth
It does appear to fit the bible nicely doesn’t it
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ricmat
Guest
I suspect that the second coming will be much sooner than the collapsing universe — which assuming the theory is true is probably 20 billion years in the future. God can end things just by not holding it in existence, no rubber band effect is necessary.
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Sixtus
Guest
Ricmat wrote:
Though looking at the mess we have made of this planet [global warming] maybe we will be causing Him to set a new precedent
While I agree with you. God appears to be a Creator, not a RE-Creator! What He does, He gets right the first time around.
Though looking at the mess we have made of this planet [global warming] maybe we will be causing Him to set a new precedent
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ribozyme
Guest
What do you mean by not holding it in existence? Do you mean that quantum chromodynamics is wrong and Jesus holds atoms together? (see: chick.com/reading/tracts/0055/0055_01.asp)
From Andrei Linde’s webpage:
I especially love this quote so I will quote it again:
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JMJ_coder
Guest
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ricmat
Guest
God is a trinity of 3 persons. Jesus, the second person is more than just a holy man who walked the earth 2000 years ago, and Jesus is also more than a disinterested (or interested) observer of God’s overall creation.
God need only think (or utter) a word in order for “it” to happen. At the creation of this universe (which is totally outside of and apart from God), God uttered the “Word” - and creation came into being. The physical laws such as gravity, thermodynamics, electrodynamics, etc were all created by God. And the moral laws, as exhibited in our collective consciences (natural law) were also imparted on the universe.
The “Word” that God uttered to bring about all of creation was “Jesus”. Therefore Jesus is our “connection” to the family of the Trinity, not just in a spiritual sense, and not just in a moral sense, but also in a very real physical sense.
The universe was created for Jesus, through Jesus, and in some mysterious way, by Jesus.
Jesus later walked the earth, as a new, clearer and more perfect embodiment and example of the moral law. That is how most people think of Jesus. But the Jesus of creation is so much more.
God chose to love us, and created both us and a universe for us to exist in, so that we could learn how to love him. The universe is not some creation, out of control, that God started and could not stop. If God ever chose not to love us, the universe would instantly disappear as though it never was (child’s play after all for the creator of the universe). It is a testimony to God’s love of us that this universe continues to exist, that we continue to sit here and debate it all.
BTW - our ability to reason, discover, investigate, and generally be curious about how the universe works, and our capability of constructing a language (math & science) to describe it in exquisitely beautiful terms is testimony to God’s plan that as we discover more about the universe, as we see more of it’s beauty and glory, we see more and more if the beautiful and glorious God that created it.
And as we see more of God in this way, the more we love God.
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Seamus_Sully
Guest
According to physical scientists, when talking about the origins of the universe they use the word “theory” in analogous sense. For the lay people that should be made real clear.
Next idea: When doing science about the start of the universe, they are implying that it follows the laws of human reason. Actually it is most explicit. It is explicit or they should not trust the ability to reason to solve the problems.
Their tests in this area of study must follow the laws of reason.
Furthermore, their test must follow the laws of math which human reasoning created. Ergo, math is reasonable.
From where did all of this reason in the universe come?
Next idea: When doing science about the start of the universe, they are implying that it follows the laws of human reason. Actually it is most explicit. It is explicit or they should not trust the ability to reason to solve the problems.
Their tests in this area of study must follow the laws of reason.
Furthermore, their test must follow the laws of math which human reasoning created. Ergo, math is reasonable.
From where did all of this reason in the universe come?
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Sixtus
Guest
If the universe is 15-billion years old and it could collapse in 10-billion years, then Christ has indeed come in ‘the latter days’
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ribozyme
Guest
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Orogeny
Guest
Well, you would be wrong. You cannot measure God in biology or any other science. Yes, Darwinian evolution does explain how evolution happens, but it does not rule out direction from God. That is only an assumption made if one doesn’t accept the existence of God to begin with.
Peace
Tim
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