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LiveCatholic
Guest
I’m all for the Shroud, but I don’t like the finding that it ‘could not be faked’–everything can be faked. I’d be more comfortable with ‘most likely wasn’t’ or something comparable… :-\
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humble_catholic
Guest
This is but one breadcrumb when put together leads to the only reasonable conclusion, that only God could have created it. Remember also that ultra violet light of great power can’t reproduce all of the amazing aspects of the shroud alone by itself.
I have been studying the shroud intensely for 2 years now and there are a myriad of evidences that lead to this conclusion. The xray aspects of the hand and skull alone show that this light had to have emanated from the body itself as most xray experts and even dentists can attest to.
They are offering a 1 year degree course on this subject (sindology) in Italy that will feature many of the famous scientists and experts on the shroud along with the sudarium of Oviedo.
I believe the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus and the image is that of our lord during the resurrection process, but you can’t make an assumption for or against it unless you go through the mountain of information and peer reviewed articles on it.
I look at the ENEA study as only supplement to the many great studies done in the past 20 years.
It’s also great to see how most atheists completely abandon their so cherished scientific reasoning and rational when talking about the shroud and resort to conspiracy theories like the davinci having the technology to creat this image lol
I have been studying the shroud intensely for 2 years now and there are a myriad of evidences that lead to this conclusion. The xray aspects of the hand and skull alone show that this light had to have emanated from the body itself as most xray experts and even dentists can attest to.
They are offering a 1 year degree course on this subject (sindology) in Italy that will feature many of the famous scientists and experts on the shroud along with the sudarium of Oviedo.
I believe the shroud is the burial cloth of Jesus and the image is that of our lord during the resurrection process, but you can’t make an assumption for or against it unless you go through the mountain of information and peer reviewed articles on it.
I look at the ENEA study as only supplement to the many great studies done in the past 20 years.
It’s also great to see how most atheists completely abandon their so cherished scientific reasoning and rational when talking about the shroud and resort to conspiracy theories like the davinci having the technology to creat this image lol
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Liquid47
Guest
While the Shroud isn’t dogma…
Be courageous and have faith. If science supports the claim that the Shroud could not be faked, why devalue it by saying ‘most likely wasn’t’? To who do we owe the honour of softening our stance?
Prudence doesn’t mean we keep our hands in our pockets, eyes on the ground, kicking stones around our feet. Yes, such a claim is very bold, but you need to realize, science doesn’t make bold claims unless it has compelling evidence.
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Mostyn
Guest
I have seen pictures of the Holy Father kneel before the shroud image.
I am very uneasy about this.
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I am very uneasy about this.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
I believe so also, and have read a bit on it and caught most of the documentaries on this. The same skeptical approach applies to many aspects of research, such as time-lines in archaeology, dating artifacts still leaves a 30 year plus-minus window. So until the past two decades many questions remainded unanswered.
The mid-late 90’s and this past decade have put to rest a lot of the skeptism though. Just in King Davids period, Exodus, etc. Biblical sights are still being uncovered, 2007 bought the oldest Biblical verse’s of exodus ever recorded. So a couple aspects are still unfolding, Finds continue to happen and confirm Biblical truths, and dating continues to become more accurate.
The Shroud seems to raise more affirmatives to its truth than negatives. This will be resolved in the near future, I’m pretty confident of this in light of the constant advancement in technology.
The mid-late 90’s and this past decade have put to rest a lot of the skeptism though. Just in King Davids period, Exodus, etc. Biblical sights are still being uncovered, 2007 bought the oldest Biblical verse’s of exodus ever recorded. So a couple aspects are still unfolding, Finds continue to happen and confirm Biblical truths, and dating continues to become more accurate.
The Shroud seems to raise more affirmatives to its truth than negatives. This will be resolved in the near future, I’m pretty confident of this in light of the constant advancement in technology.
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
How is it any different from praying in front of any other picture of Christ?
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RACJ
Guest
No, it's not just you. I'm one Protestant who refuses to don blinders and pretend that the cloth could be anything BUT the burial shroud of our Lord. :gopray2: Rob
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RACJ
Guest
No, for dozens and dozens of reasons, the Holy Shroud could not have been faked.
Rob
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Bezant
Guest
This is just stupid.
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rom422
Guest
“The senseless man shall not know: nor will the fool understand these things” (Psalm 91:7, Douay).
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RACJ
Guest
Actually Bezant, the hand of God may act strangely, mysteriously and magnificently, but never "stupid"ly. :knight2: Rob
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i choose to believe that the Shroud of Turin is the image of Christ until it is proven otherwise. the way i see it, there is more reason to believe it is His image, than it is not.
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catholictiger
Guest
if that is the cloth that Christ was rapped in, I don’t know about you but that would be one powerful item, and we should bow before it. Because that may be one of the closest things we have to Christ, outside of the Eucharist.
A 2nd class relic of Christ WOW.
we receive a first class relic of Christ every day in Mass.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
exactly, why should anyone feel uneasy seeing the Pope kneeling before the Shroud of Turin? if we believe this cloth wrapped the body of Christ, the Pope would feel he was in His presence.if that is the cloth that Christ was rapped in, I don’t know about you but that would be one powerful item, and we should bow before it. Because that may be one of the closest things we have to Christ, outside of the Eucharist.
A 2nd class relic of Christ WOW.
we receive a first class relic of Christ every day in Mass.
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Mostyn
Guest
But we don’t know that this is a picture of Christ.
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Mostyn
Guest
The Jewish burial custom use a separate covering for the head, called a sudaruim, this was placed over the head after crucifixion , then taken for burial. So there were two cloths and other strips of linen used in the preparation for burial.
Apparently the sudaruim is removed before the body is swathed in a shroud.
The sadarum has blood stains on it, but no image.
Historian Mark Guscin explains:
“the sudarium was used to cover Jesus’ face before he was buried, from the moment when he died to the moment he was laid out in the tomb. … then … the sudarium was taken off his face, folded up and put to one side, and the clean linen cloth was used to quickly wrap the body before the sun went down and the Sabbath started. This coincides with Jewish custom and ritual. … that if the face of the dead person was any way disfigured, it should be covered with a cloth … The sudarium must have been placed over his face before his body had been taken down from the cross, left there while it was being transported to the tomb and there taken off, folded up and left to one side, when the body was placed in the larger linen cloth.” (Guscin, 1998, p.35).
All this reminds me of how horrifically Our Lord suffered and died in agony on the Cross for us.
Apparently the sudaruim is removed before the body is swathed in a shroud.
The sadarum has blood stains on it, but no image.
Historian Mark Guscin explains:
“the sudarium was used to cover Jesus’ face before he was buried, from the moment when he died to the moment he was laid out in the tomb. … then … the sudarium was taken off his face, folded up and put to one side, and the clean linen cloth was used to quickly wrap the body before the sun went down and the Sabbath started. This coincides with Jewish custom and ritual. … that if the face of the dead person was any way disfigured, it should be covered with a cloth … The sudarium must have been placed over his face before his body had been taken down from the cross, left there while it was being transported to the tomb and there taken off, folded up and left to one side, when the body was placed in the larger linen cloth.” (Guscin, 1998, p.35).
All this reminds me of how horrifically Our Lord suffered and died in agony on the Cross for us.
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rom422
Guest
We don’t know for sure that this is a picture of Christ, but with all the cumulative evidence in its favor, we know that this is very likely a picture of Christ.
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YADA
Guest
Don’t hold your breath …
There is no way that anyone cold say with 100% certainty that this was Jesus’ burial cloth …
Not even if there was no contoversy over the age and origin of the cloth itself … nor any controvery regarding the imprint being made - naturally - by the crucified body of a first century Jewish male in Jerusalem …
Like other miraculous events [think Lourdes and Fatima] … that it is worthy of belief … or as the Pope has said - an artifact that calls to mind the sacrifice of Jesus for our salvation …
Jesus is the focus of our life … living the Gospel, feeding those in need and being fed via Christ’s Eucharistic gift to us … Jesus did not build a Shroud - He built a Church … Jesus did not offer up a Shroud - he offered His Body and Blood that we should take and eat …
I personally believe that this is the burial Shroud of our Lord …
But whether it truly is … or is nothing but a forgery … does not change my faith in Jesus, it does not increase it - decrease it … Jesus laid His life for me and for you … that is something real and certain …
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