Scientists Unveil Missing Link In Evolution

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reggieM

Thank you for compiling that information on the soul. I sincerely enjoyed reading it 🙂
The soul, however, has a direct influence on the body. It is united to the body itself. The soul is not subject to material laws, it was not produced by physical laws of nature and is not composed of matter. It can cause human beings to choose “against nature” – thus, humans are not subject (slaves) of natural powers like so-called evolution.
Well, to an extent we are subject to natural processes like evolution.
Human beings are not determined by evolutionary laws. If evolutionary theory was true (in its mainstream, most common presentation), then human beings would be entirely determined by natural processes. There could be no free-will, and nothing in humans that was not the result and outcome of “fixed natural laws”.
At least part of the human being was determined by evolution, but divine intervention is clearly responsible for the soul.
But that is what Darwinism teaches – that is Darwin’s challenge (which I provided a long time back in these discussions) that “Everything in nature is the result of fixed laws”. That is the foundation of evolutionary theory. But it is false with regards to “everything that happens in nature”. Clearly, the soul affects the human body. The human body is composed of elements of material nature.
So, the soul affects material nature.
Evolution is not a physical law, and (to my knowledge) the soul influences humans in ways that still comply with these physical laws, even though the effects stem from the metaphysical.

I don’t see a conflict here.
 
So are you saying God had to use RNA to create DNA? Again, what is your take on presuming science has to explain the work of the Creator? Don’t dodge the question.
As I already said, science pursues natural explanations for natural phenomena. The theory of evolution does this, and because truth cannot contradict truth, I believe that God uses evolution to generate the diversity of life that we observe.
 
Evolution offers a possible pathway by which DNA could have evolved:

DNA could have evolved gradually from a simpler replicator; RNA is a likely candidate, since it can catalyze its own duplication (Jeffares et al. 1998; Leipe et al. 1999; Poole et al. 1998). The RNA itself could have had simpler precursors, such as peptide nucleic acids (Böhler et al. 1995). A deoxyribozyme can both catalyze its own replication and function to cleave RNA – all without any protein enzymes (Levy and Ellington 2003).

talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB015.html
Where did the language of DNA originate? (not the molecule)
 
That is an admirable response and I appreciate your circumspect approach. I’ll just offer some ideas on this.

First, the nature of the soul – what is it?

In perennial Catholic teaching from the Fathers of the Church, through St. Thomas Aquinas, through Garrigou-Lagrange and Cardinal Newman and the Catholic Catechism … the soul is:

**…the ultimate internal principle by which we think, feel, and will, and by which our bodies are animated. **The term “mind” usually denotes this principle as the subject of our conscious states, while “soul” denotes the source of our vegetative activities as well. That our vital activities proceed from a principle capable of subsisting in itself, is the thesis of the substantiality of the soul: that this principle is not itself composite, extended, corporeal, or essentially and intrinsically dependent on the body, is the doctrine of spirituality.
– Catholic Encyclopedia - Soul
newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm

What about the faculties or functions are the soul?

Those deal with “intelligence and will” and include memory and imagination – and in general “consciousness” or “self-awareness”.

The soul is the source of free-will.

It is also called, in Catholic philosophical terms: “the form of the body”. It is the supernaturally created “internal principle” of the body – united to the body.

What is the origin of the soul?

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

De Fide dogma – God directly creates the human soul. It is not the product of evolution, physical laws or matter. It did not emerge gradually by a slow process of mutations.

Doctrinal teaching – God willed human beings. Humans did not emerge from nature by an accidental, unintelligent, unconscious process – but were “willed into existence”. God knew about and planned for the creation of humans.

Humans are capable, by the supernatural power of the Spirit in their rational souls – through intellectual apprehension of created things to “understand the order of things established by the Creator.”

That is basically the Design Argument right there – in the text of the catechism. But that’s a different point. We were looking at the soul and its powers.

The most important point here is that the soul is not completely independent and separate from the body. They are united and work together. This is obviously true regarding the operation of conscious intellect – it directs the body.

Again, free-will is “by virtue of the soul” – it is not a material substance.
You have correctly argued that already many times.

The soul, however, has a direct influence on the body. It is united to the body itself. The soul is not subject to material laws, it was not produced by physical laws of nature and is not composed of matter. It can cause human beings to choose “against nature” – thus, humans are not subject (slaves) of natural powers like so-called evolution.

Human beings are not determined by evolutionary laws. If evolutionary theory was true (in its mainstream, most common presentation), then human beings would be entirely determined by natural processes. There could be no free-will, and nothing in humans that was not the result and outcome of “fixed natural laws”.

But that is what Darwinism teaches – that is Darwin’s challenge (which I provided a long time back in these discussions) that “Everything in nature is the result of fixed laws”. That is the foundation of evolutionary theory.

To say that “the soul is not a part of material nature” is true in one aspect. As easily understood here – the soul is directly created by God as immaterial.

But it is false with regards to “everything that happens in nature”. Clearly, the soul affects the human body. The human body is composed of elements of material nature.

So, the soul affects material nature.
Excellent post, ReggieM. It must be made clear that there are not two realities but one. The human body is physical and spiritual. The work of the soul can be observed by science but with a definite bias toward a fully natural, non-God, origin.

There is no value in including God if you don’t believe in Him or the soul. The full, complete answer must include the spiritual and its very real effect on the body. If the spiritual is excluded, then science creates evolutionary psychology which assigns to chance and selection all of our mental functions, including imagination. This means our genetic material alone, through undirected upgrading, is who we are. This answer cannot ground the dignity of the human person as willed by God.

Peace,
Ed
 
Thanks, Ed. I fully agree with your analysis on this also. Evolutionary theory reduces the human being to matter and physical laws.
 
Michaelo - I’m glad you appreciated that.
At least part of the human being was determined by evolution, but divine intervention is clearly responsible for the soul.
Ok, but if the theory merely stated that organisms can show some limited physical changes due to adaptations to environmental conditions – there would be no debate. We wouldn’t be talking about that topic on CAF since it would be irrelevant.

Evolutionary theory makes claims that go beyond the evidence. That’s the problem, and that’s why many Catholics argue against the theory.
 
Evolutionary theory makes claims that go beyond the evidence. That’s the problem, and that’s why many Catholics argue against the theory.
That is why I have difficulty with the theory.
 
Evolutionary theory makes claims that go beyond the evidence. That’s the problem, and that’s why many Catholics argue against the theory.
Such as?

Remember, evolution doesn’t comment on the metaphysical and only offers an explanation for the physical aspect of the human being.
 
Such as?

Remember, evolution doesn’t comment on the metaphysical and only offers an explanation for the physical aspect of the human being.
Is evolution a self-starting process? Is it fueled by random mutations? Does it operate independent of any supernatural influence? Are the final results fully explained by mechanical and chemical processes?

Does it explain the increase in genetic information from primitive cells to complex animals? If so, does this increase in DNA information have a completely natural foundation?

Were the first human beings simply slightly more evolved hominids? Did their brain function simply upgrade to a level that allowed them to create tools?

My claim is this: by excluding a direct causal role for God, evolutionary theory is incompatible with Church teaching (see Communion and Stewardship).

Peace,
Ed
 
My claim is this: by excluding a direct causal role for God, evolutionary theory is incompatible with Church teaching (see Communion and Stewardship).
A scientific theory cannot include God in its explanation, but we may discern His influence through theological musings.
 
A scientific theory cannot include God in its explanation, but we may discern His influence through theological musings.
This needs to be explicity included. If not, it violates Church teaching. To be more specific, God willed each one of us into existence. We are told to evangelize the whole world. Jesus had to die and rise again as a sacrifice because of the sin of one man.

Peace,
Ed
 
This needs to be explicity included. If not, it violates Church teaching.
No, God does not belong in the scientific theory of evolution but rather in its theological extensions. You have confused the two.
 
No, God does not belong in the scientific theory of evolution but rather in its theological extensions. You have confused the two.
God is truth and if science is true then God must be in it. Using the broad definition of science (pursuit of knowledge) has to include God or it cannot be true. Empirical science is the only place where we can see and test the truth without invoking God in the formula. Any science outside of empirical science therefore invokes God.
 
God is truth and if science is true then God must be in it. Using the broad definition of science (pursuit of knowledge) has to include God or it cannot be true. Empirical science is the only place where we can see and test the truth without invoking God in the formula. Any science outside of empirical science therefore invokes God.
Right, and I would think it’s implied that we’re dealing with empirical science (and therefore shouldn’t reference God) when we discuss the theory of evolution.
 
Right, and I would think it’s implied that we’re dealing with empirical science (and therefore shouldn’t reference God) when we discuss the theory of evolution.
I disagree. For clarity and for newbies and lurkers I think the distinction should always be made.
 
There are problems for the theory of evolution in regards to clear Catholic Church teaching:

A) No polygenism. God did not select two hominds out of a group, and drop souls into them.

B) Eve was formed by God from Adam’s side. See the encyclical Arcanum by Pope Leo XIII.

As Catholics, we are called to evangelize the whole world. What are we going to tell people about why Christ lived, died and rose again? Because of two hominids God gave souls to? We are taught that Adam and Eve were real people. We are told that through one man sin entered the world.

Peace,
Ed
 
I believe that God is responsible for the physical laws that govern processes like evolution.
So, do you believe that *intelligent design* of physical laws should be taught in schools? :confused: I think that macro-evolutionary theory is absurd, but even conceding that it happened for the moment, my biggest problem is that PURE naturalism is taught in our schools, and it's time that Christians were unashamed to fight back against this big lie, for our kids' sakes and souls. Rob
 
So, kick God out of science? Deny the source of science and you deny science.
You don’t have to explicitly reference God in science to accept that it is revealed Truth.
So, do you believe that intelligent design of physical laws should be taught in schools? :confused:
Not in science class, but perhaps in religious studies, philosophy, etc.
 
You don’t have to explicitly reference God in science to accept that it is revealed Truth.
Oh so hide God. Keep in mind theology is considered the highest of sciences, all other disciplines then take root from there. To the early scientists, broadening knowledge was considered mostly a theological endeavor, I suspect things have not changed much since.
 
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