Scientology

[Thetan]

Thanks for that, but you misread my post. I was talking about divorce.

hahaha, sorry, I definitely did I’m not exactly sure what the procedure is to get a divorce in Scientology, I haven’t really researched marriage and divorce in depth. What I can tell you is that any act that is harmful against another person is called an “overt”. Scientology tries to limit and get rid of the number of overts we commit against one another. A divorce results from a large number of overts or harmful acts against another person. Scientology has extensive works on how to remedy these overts between a married couple, b/c our view is that life is important, and we can overcome any obstacle. Of course, divorce might be the most likely scenario, especially in an abusive relationship, but the Church does try to keep marriages together if it is possible.

 

[Thetan]

Have a look at this recent BBC documentary, it’s clearly biased against the Scientologists, as can be seen by the documentary maker losing his rag mid-way through, but it’s still got some interesting things to say about the ‘movement’ (I didn’t say cult, don’t sue me!)

news.bbc.co.uk/1/programmes/panorama/default.stm

bbcpanorama-exposed.org/introduction-to-bbc-panorama-exposed.php

That is the Church of Scientology’s response to the documentary.

 

[Hellisreal]

Do Scientologists find Catholics to be a danger and an enemy to their agenda?

 

[Thetan]

Do Scientologists find Catholics to be a danger and an enemy to their agenda?

Scientology does not have a view on the Catholic Church, or any other religion for that matter. The Church of Scientology is involved in many interfaith efforts in the US and other countries. We are only concerned when others try to label us as a cult, a danger to society, etc.

 

[drafdog]

Scientology is a pseudo-religion which was founded by L. Ron Hubbard. Hubbard wrote science fiction but was not making much money at it. He wrote an article in a magazine in which he opined that one of the surest ways to make a lot of money was to found a religion and be the head and guiding force behind it. He outlined the tax benefits of church organizations, etc. Apparently he believed his own article as he died a wealthy man at the head of a secretive and expensive cult.
I read the Dianetics book years ago. It is a mish-mash of pop-psychology and religion. You will all remember P. T. Barnum’s remark.

Matthew

 

[Thetan]

Scientology is a pseudo-religion which was founded by L. Ron Hubbard. Hubbard wrote science fiction but was not making much money at it. He wrote an article in a magazine in which he opined that one of the surest ways to make a lot of money was to found a religion and be the head and guiding force behind it. He outlined the tax benefits of church organizations, etc. Apparently he believed his own article as he died a wealthy man at the head of a secretive and expensive cult.
I read the Dianetics book years ago. It is a mish-mash of pop-psychology and religion. You will all remember P. T. Barnum’s remark.

Matthew

This couldn’t be further from the truth.

-There is not any proof that Hubbard made such a comment about making millions and founding a religion, contrary to what anti-Scientologists claim.
scientologymyths.info/l-ron-hubbard/did-hubbard-say-the-way-to-make-a-million-dollars-is-to-start-a-religion.php
That’s some documentation on the issue. George Orwell made that comment, not L. Ron Hubbard.

-Hubbard did not die a wealthy man, and it is clear that he donated most of his earnings to the Church of Scientology. He was an author, therefore he did make money. However, he donated, among other things, his estate to the Church. I’m sure there are easier ways to make a million dollars than to create a vast religion with many beliefs, practices, etc.

-L. Ron Hubbard did not die at the head of the Church of Scientology. It is common knowledge that he stepped down as the head of the Church well before his death.

-Scientology is NOT a cult. I’m sure that you don’t like it when fundamentalists call the Catholic Church a Mary worshipping cult, so we appreciate it when others do not call us a cult.

 

[heathernoel]

What are the fees associated with being a scientologist? How expensive is it?

 

[Thetan]

What are the fees associated with being a scientologist? How expensive is it?

The cost of various courses in Scientology varies. Generally, it costs more to do the higher levels and courses than the lower ones. You can start off in Scientology for free, and take courses for less than $100. As the years go on, however, you will pay upwards of $1000. These fees all go to the Church to help pay for buildings, the ministers, etc.

If you cannot afford the cost of auditing, there are other ways to receive the same services. You can train to be an Auditor, and do co-auditing, where you audit another Auditor-in-training, and vice versa. This is FREE. You can receive most if not all of your auditing in Scientology through this method. Or, you can just go to a minister in training and pay a reduced donation for the service. This is in contrast to other churches that require members to tithe 10% of their income, no matter what ceremonies and services they attend. In the Church of Scientology, you pay for what you receive. If you’ve received all the auditing you want, and you’re more interested in reading and practicing the religion alone, you can do that for FREE. If you want to attend other Services, including a Sunday service, you can do that, for FREE. This is something anti-Scientologists don’t tell you, b/c they want you to focus on ONE way of practicing Scientology.

 

[cor]

The so-called Xenu story, which I have read ad-nauseum on the internet, is supposedly taught at the OT III level. My father, as an OT IV, has passed this level, and did not learn anything about any space aliens, Xenu, a Galactic Confederation, etc. Read the above link that I posted.

The link you posted did not deny the story of Xenu.

If you read the wikipedia link, you’ll find that those who are taught about Xenu are forbidden from speaking about it to those haven’t yet learned about it. So that’s consistent with your father’s behaviour.

 

[Thetan]

The link you posted did not deny the story of Xenu.

If you read the wikipedia link, you’ll find that those who are taught about Xenu are forbidden from speaking about it to those haven’t yet learned about it. So that’s consistent with your father’s behaviour.

I’ve read the Wikipedia link, as well as many other links from the anti-Scientology stance. If you reread my link, you’ll see that it says that the information that is put out purporting to be OT III, concerning the Xenu story, has been altered and portrayed to be the real story, when it is not. Yes, the actual content of the Operating Thetan levels are confidential. I’m sure that some of the information on OT III and other levels that were part of court hearings are true. However, if you do some research, you’ll see that the the OT VIII materials that were released in court were found to be falsified. If this is true, then I and others do not trust the rest of the materials to be valid or truthful. I also do not trust the words of anti/ex-Scientologists, in the same way that I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to go to an anti/ex-Catholic to find out what the Catholic Church teaches.

 

[heathernoel]

The cost of various courses in Scientology varies. Generally, it costs more to do the higher levels and courses than the lower ones. You can start off in Scientology for free, and take courses for less than $100. As the years go on, however, you will pay upwards of $1000. These fees all go to the Church to help pay for buildings, the ministers, etc.

If you cannot afford the cost of auditing, there are other ways to receive the same services. You can train to be an Auditor, and do co-auditing, where you audit another Auditor-in-training, and vice versa. This is FREE. You can receive most if not all of your auditing in Scientology through this method. Or, you can just go to a minister in training and pay a reduced donation for the service. This is in contrast to other churches that require members to tithe 10% of their income, no matter what ceremonies and services they attend. In the Church of Scientology, you pay for what you receive. If you’ve received all the auditing you want, and you’re more interested in reading and practicing the religion alone, you can do that for FREE. If you want to attend other Services, including a Sunday service, you can do that, for FREE. This is something anti-Scientologists don’t tell you, b/c they want you to focus on ONE way of practicing Scientology.

It takes me a while to process information, so please pardon the stupid questions that will inevitably flow from my fingers, please.

Actually, God calls us to give our first fruits as a sign of sacrifice as gratitude. The Catholic church doesn’t require it…my parish actually suggests 5% plus time spent in service to our fellow man. No classes are in exchange for money. If you’d like to make a donation as a means of showing gratitude for services such as weddings…that’s fine, but not required as a means of paying a minister. That was my experience in the Methodist church, too.
(Not being argumentative…just wanted to share and clear up misconceptions. )

Thanks for answering my questions. I am curious as to how other people arrive at their religions, regardless of whether or not I agree. Knowledge is power!

God Bless You,
Heather

 

[maryjk]

This is in contrast to other churches that require members to tithe 10% of their income, no matter what ceremonies and services they attend.

Which Christian church REQUIRES their members to tithe 10%? It may be suggested, but I know of no Christian church that requires 10%.

 

[whatevergirl]

I don’t believe Christ is mentioned in Scientology. I would have to say that if someone ends up controlling others–how can what they follow, be ‘working’ for them??

 

[Thetan]

Which Christian church REQUIRES their members to tithe 10%? It may be suggested, but I know of no Christian church that requires 10%.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints requires members to tithe to be considered in good standing, as well as entry to the temples. Of course, most of you would say that it isn’t mainstream Christian, but that’s for another thread

The Assemblies of God and other Pentecostal churches are known for strict tithing rules(this coming from a friend that I used to debate about religion with who is also a member of AoG).

Various mega-churches definitely require 10% for membership.

I’m fully aware that the Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, and other mainline churches do not require tithing.

 

[Thetan]

I don’t believe Christ is mentioned in Scientology. I would have to say that if someone ends up controlling others–how can what they follow, be ‘working’ for them??

Christ isn’t mentioned because we are a non-Christian religion…

I’m not sure what you mean by “controlling others”. I’m not controlling anyone, nor am I being controlled by someone else.

 

[Morning_Star15]

Hi Thetan,

Thank you for your sharing. I think part of the reason that Scientology comes across as a cult is because of the “top-secret” nature of its beliefs. If people have to pass an electron test and then pay lots of money for courses to lear information about the faith that they must keep secret from the masses (even those who are Scientologists but haven’t paid to learn this information), then it sounds to me like a cult. Christianity (as well as all mainstream religions that I know of), all of the tenets of the faith, its sacred writings, etc. are readily available to everyone, including those who don’t belong to the religion and have no desire to do so.

To take Catholicism as an example, the Bible (which we hold very sacred as the Word of God) is widely available and can be read by anyone. Same goes for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as other books and encyclicals pertaining to the faith. Also, Catholic deacons, priests, and deacons gladly share their often more extensive knowledge of the Bible and theology with Catholic laypersons and even non-believers, all of which they do for free during Masses, etc. There’s no mandatory fee for any courses that Catholics take (there is sometimes a suggested fee, but no one would be excluded from a course because they can’t afford to pay), and all the Bible studies and catechetical courses that I’ve heard of are done without even suggesting that someone pay for it.

This is partly why Scientology looks like a cult to me.

 

[Thetan]

Morning Star, thank you for your views as well. There is no “electron test” that you have to pass to learn about hte beliefs of the Church of Scientology. Our beliefs are widely available. The book “What is Scientology?” is an extensive book on our beliefs. What is secret is a small part of Scientology beliefs. I relate this to the ancient Christian(and sometimes still practiced in Orthodox churches) practice of sending off catechumens after the Liturgy of the Word because they have not yet learned everything/not yet “initiated” into the Church. Similar, but not the same.

I do believe I said this earlier, but it IS possible to practice Scientology without paying a lot of money, and even for free in many cases. Auditing is the main service in Scientology, where we can learn more about ourselves. This can be done for FREE through co-auditing, or for a lesser cost by auditing with an Auditor in training. Therefore, the view that Scientology is expensive/has “mandatory” fees is not valid.

Look here for the core beliefs of Scientology:

scripturalscientology.org/
scientology.org
dianetics.org
bonafidescientology.org/index.htm

Those are good places to start. Scientology is not a cult.

Hi Thetan,

Thank you for your sharing. I think part of the reason that Scientology comes across as a cult is because of the “top-secret” nature of its beliefs. If people have to pass an electron test and then pay lots of money for courses to lear information about the faith that they must keep secret from the masses (even those who are Scientologists but haven’t paid to learn this information), then it sounds to me like a cult. Christianity (as well as all mainstream religions that I know of), all of the tenets of the faith, its sacred writings, etc. are readily available to everyone, including those who don’t belong to the religion and have no desire to do so.

To take Catholicism as an example, the Bible (which we hold very sacred as the Word of God) is widely available and can be read by anyone. Same goes for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, as well as other books and encyclicals pertaining to the faith. Also, Catholic deacons, priests, and deacons gladly share their often more extensive knowledge of the Bible and theology with Catholic laypersons and even non-believers, all of which they do for free during Masses, etc. There’s no mandatory fee for any courses that Catholics take (there is sometimes a suggested fee, but no one would be excluded from a course because they can’t afford to pay), and all the Bible studies and catechetical courses that I’ve heard of are done without even suggesting that someone pay for it.

This is partly why Scientology looks like a cult to me.

 

[maryjk]

Morning Star, thank you for your views as well. There is no “electron test” that you have to pass to learn about hte beliefs of the Church of Scientology. Our beliefs are widely available. The book “What is Scientology?” is an extensive book on our beliefs. What is secret is a small part of Scientology beliefs. I relate this to the ancient Christian(and sometimes still practiced in Orthodox churches) practice of sending off catechumens after the Liturgy of the Word because they have not yet learned everything/not yet “initiated” into the Church. Similar, but not the same.

Not the same thing because they can stay through out the Mass and most likely have before they decided to join the church. There is no secret being kept from them. But there are secrets being kept from members of Scientology?

I do believe I said this earlier, but it IS possible to practice Scientology without paying a lot of money, and even for free in many cases. Auditing is the main service in Scientology, where we can learn more about ourselves. This can be done for FREE through co-auditing, or for a lesser cost by auditing with an Auditor in training. Therefore, the view that Scientology is expensive/has “mandatory” fees is not valid.

But it is only free if you are also working at this auditing? So someone would have to pay unless they are willing to work as an Auditor? What if you had no money and could not be an auditor, for what ever reason? Would it be possible to practice Scientology?

 

[Thetan]

Not the same thing because they can stay through out the Mass and most likely have before they decided to join the church. There is no secret being kept from them. But there are secrets being kept from members of Scientology?

But it is only free if you are also working at this auditing? So someone would have to pay unless they are willing to work as an Auditor? What if you had no money and could not be an auditor, for what ever reason? Would it be possible to practice Scientology?

-I was actually referring to an ancient Christian practice, where the Catechumens would leave the Mass/Divine Liturgy after the Liturgy of the Word. Someone would call “the doors, the doors!”. This is from memory, but that is what I’ve read was practiced. It is a similar concept. Scientology is in the category of a “mystery religion”. Therefore, yes, there are certain things that are not revealed until you are spiritually prepared for it. All who go into Scientology are fine with this, as it is common knowledge. The vast majority of our beliefs are public knowledge, as per the above links and various books. However, a portion is part of the “mystery” aspect of our religion. This is found in the Operating Thetan levels.

-Generally, it would only be free if you train to become an Auditor and audit someone as you are being audited. Many people do this and a combination of paying for services. They are two sides to the same bridge to the same goal. If you cannot afford a service, and do not/cannot become an Auditor, as I stated before, you can receive auditing from ministers in training for free or reduced donations as well. There are many ways to receive the services that you would like.

-Scientology offers many services, such as Sunday services, which are free. You can read the philosophical books of Scientology at any Church for free. You can learn much in this way, and learn various ways to incorporate Scientology ethics and beliefs into your life. You can practice auditing without an E-meter and other tools using the methods in the book Dianetics: Modern Science of Mental Health. Of course, there are other methods that are more effective and quicker at gaining the desired goal, however you can still experience the benefits of auditing in that way. Again, anti-Scientologists that say that Scientology is all about money do not know anything about it in reality.

 

[kellie]

Thetan,

Catechumans may stay for an entire Mass if they wish.

Anyone is welcome to sit through an entire Mass, no matter what their religion.

We have no secrets in our Mass.

It is true that the Catechumens do leave after the Gospel, I am not sure why, but at my Parish, this is when they go off to their RCIA class, whilst the rest of Mass continues.

However they can sure go to any other Mass of the week.

I have read this thread entirely, and it all seems to be about “me”.

Scientology and Dianetics and how it can help “me”

There is no mention of worship and to whom you worship.

Who do you worship? And what is your belief on life after death?
And who created us?