Scientology

[Keikiolu]

K, if you read more about the Fishman Affidavit, you will see that he presented the supposed information from Church documents on the 8 Operating Thetan levels. He threw out the 8th level documents, and the Church did not sue over that one, because it did not contain any copyrighted information. The other documents did contain copyrighted information, however it was not the entire amount of such information contained on the respective levels. However, anti and ex Scientologists like to claim that the Xenu story is central to the Church of Scientology when it definitely is not.

OK. That’s fine.

I’m not really worried about anything other than the “non Christian” aspects of the CoS, which are freely admitted to by you and others, and by the “weird” actual behaviors, regardless of cause, of some of the members of the CoS.

To me, you folks are dangerous simply because you behave as you do.

You, personally, may behave just dandy. But the accumulated info about the “institutional” behavior of the CoS makes it a target for investigation, at least.

Thank you for not being interested in what we say about ourselves. That is really a contradiction. I have perused these boards for years, even though I rarely post unless my religion comes up. Time and time again, on these and other boards such as Beliefnet, I see Catholics say that non-Catholics should not ask others what their beliefs are, and that we shouldn’t go to anti-Catholic websites, read Chick Tracts, listen to what fundamentalist Christians say, etc.

If I wanted to know what you had to say about yourselves, I’d ask you, and would indeed go to your CoS friendly sites.

What I’m interested in is your explanations of why others (your detractors) see you as they do.

You say that the weight of info on the"weirdness" about the Church of Scientology is huge, but I’d say it is no bigger than that of the Catholic Church, except that your religion has been around longer, and has entered into mainstream religion.

Do I care what the “enemies” of my religion have to say?

Only so as to counter the errant information about my religion, but the enemies of Catholicism are never EVER going to “go away”, nor would I want them to, simply because I could answer their attacks.

The problem with the CoS is that it DOESN’T answer their critics.

It intimidates, lies, gives meaningless “responses”, and just plain old “OUT SHOUTS” it’s critics.

Ours is a new religion, and therefore doesn’t have that privilege. How many sites have I read that talk about how the Catholic Church(usually called Romanism, Papism, Mariolatry, etc.) is a cult. That you worship statues, Mary, angels, saints, wafers, etc. That you’ve invented beliefs recently. That you’ve added books to the Bible. That you believe that priests have powers to turn bread into the body of Jesus. Do I think these are your actual beliefs? No, b/c I’ve read what actual Catholics believe, not what anti or ex-Catholics believe. Some of your actual beliefs can seem “weird” too, such as bleeding statues, statues that cry, Mary appearing to people after she’s dead, priests can exorcise demons, Heaven, Hell, Purgatory, etc, etc. All religions have some “weirdness” factor, so please don’t make fun of Scientology or call it a cult, when the same can be said about your religion.

You can call the Church (Catholic) a cult all day long as far as I’m concerned.

You are MORE than welcome to using your cult for whatever purposes you see fit. I hope the CoS is the most upright nice ethical beautiful friendly nifty cool-o-mundo organization on the planet…! I’m not overly concerned that the CoS is going to take over the world, and if you guys are great people, then more power to you.

The problem is that my religion says that your religion is a joke, though a possibly useful joke, except in as much as whatever the members of your cult are allowed to have a real relationship with God.

And yes, Scientology is in the same group as Gnosticism and other mystery religions. Doesn’t really bother us. We are a non-Christian religion.

When people actually read the (really should be made into a major mothion picture) story of LRon, they’d be very much amused, and possibly horrified, but as GREAT reading (viewing!? Producers, are you listening!?) it’s really hard to beat…!

…and may those involved in the cult of CoS bring it to where it needs to be in relation to our God given human need for religion.

Right now,… it’s just too funny, and destined for the usual end of all gnostic sects.

Best to you, and still paying for you to the Christ you deny exists.

You’re a beautiful person, unless you’re not, in a nasty swamp playing with alligators and leeches. Be careful out there, OK…?

 

[maryjk]

And yes, Scientology is in the same group as Gnosticism and other mystery religions. Doesn’t really bother us. We are a non-Christian religion.

Thetan:

I’d say that it is possible to be Catholic and practice “Dianetics”, which is the first part of Scientology. This concerns the mind, and other related ideas. However, once you go into the part of the religion called “Scientology”, you will deal with things like past lives, which many deem incompatible with Christianity. Scientology’s view is that you don’t have to renounce your religion, but the other religion might view that you have to.

So when people are told that they can be Catholic and study Scientology, that is not true? Or can I be part of a Christian religion and be part of a non-Christian religion? People that are part of Scientology would not have a problem with me attending Mass, praying to God and going to Confession? That would be fine with them. It would not cause any issues? Because I would think that they would not want me part of a Christian religion.

And I am sorry, I just can’t get past the idea that keeping part of the religion secret is okay with you. That would make me really wonder about what they were hiding from me. Okay, so I wouldn’t understand it because I don’t know enough. So what. Tell me anyway, there shouldn’t be secrets in religion. And I really don’t care what you want to tell me about how the Catholic religion did that in the past. I, personally, would want to know all about a religion before I could consider what they say.

 

[anthony022071]

Scientology is a modern form of Gnosticism. It has an esoteric appeal and it attracts people because of its association with the wealthy and successful. Many people these days are looking for the secret to success,wealth,and personal happiness,the elimination of personal guilt and suffering,and they find it in The Secret,Tony Robbins and other success gurus,Eastern pseudo-religious/spiritualist personalities,yoga,Scientology,Utilitarian philosophy,cabala,Prosperity Christianity,and other things.Many people want spirituality without religion,then go for religion without God.

 

[Keikiolu]

K, please see my above response. I KNOW that those are not the beliefs of the Catholic Church. I’ve researched it extensively. Religion is one of my favorite topics. My point is that this is what anti and ex-Catholics WANT you to believe, therefore if I went to such websites to learn about Catholicism, this is what I’d learn. The VAST majority of Scientology beliefs are publicized, and

blahblahblah…

and much more.

It’s very interesting reading, I’m sure.

The problem is that it’s got nothing to do with “religion”, in my opinion, and would only be “useful” to me to illustrate to a scientologist where they are in error.

My religion simply states that your religion, and I only barely stop from gagging using the word “religion” to describe it, is utter nonsense. Period.

I’m not interested in converting CoSies.

The info from the CoS about the CoS is pure SciFi.

…and merely proves the insanity of it’s founder and adherants.

I feel that you really haven’t read my posts. You don’t HAVE to pay to receive Scientology services. There are two ways up the Bridge in Scientology. Most do a mix of both.

There’s money, and time at labor, correct?

What is “time at labor” if not money?

Bottom line, you PAY something, no doubt gratefully, for the SECRET POWER to do POWERFUL things. Ooooo… nifty.

I do not categorize the Catholic Church as a cult. It is a religion. Yet you classify mine as a cult.

That would be correct. Why do you care how I see your cult?

You care because it’s hurtful to you to think that the marvelousness that is the CoS might be demeaned by having it described as a cult.

Show me how it’s NOT a cult.

My point is that whenever I see a fundamentalist come onto Catholic boards here and elsewhere, there is a whole debate about how they are wrong, and that the Catholic Church is not a cult, etc. I’m sure you know that the word cult has a very negative stigma to it.

When someone comes here and states the the Church is a cult, we all laugh and ask the stater why he thinks that, if we care about his opinion at all.

The Church (Cath) has been dealing with people calling it every name in the book. How does the Church react, by explaining itself, which sharpens it’s knowledge of itself nicely in the process by the way.

What does the CoS do in response to “criticism”?

You tell me.

We are not involved in the classical practices of a cult, including worshipping some man and brainwashing.

A cult is not necessarily a cult of “personality”,… though LRon sounds pretty “personality” obsessed to me.

Your cult is one of SECRET POWER bought at a price.

It’s a classic pyramid scheme.

I’m not going to argue the meaning of “cult” with you. You folks smell like a cult, so you’re a cult,… unless you can convince me otherwise.

Neither is the Catholic Church. Yet some consider your Church a cult. I do not. That is my point. We care if people call our religion a cult b/c it is NOT. It is a misrepresentation and disrespect of our religion.

Yes it is a disrespectful attitude toward your religion. Your point would be…?

That which seeks respect should show why it’s due respect, not simply assume that respect should be granted it.

Yes, we have different beliefs. ALL religions can seem weird and outrageous to non-practitioners. Does that make them a cult? no. If a religion keeps some practices secret, does that make them a cult? no.

You folks are a “threatening” cult, as opposed to a “fun” cult, because of your outward behaviors, not for your beliefs.

I like “fun” cults whose behaviors are not obnoxious. Your cult demonstrates extreme obnoxiousness.

Deal with it. You can do so by explaining yourselves, or by continuing to allow your obnoxious behavior to explain for you.

Mystery religions go back to the beginnings of man. There are many different ways to practice a religion. The Christian, Western way is but one. The Church of Scientology does not have a bad reputation. Both of our Churches have problems. That doesn’t make them cults.

As I said, your cult is objectionable because of it’s behavior, not because it’s a cult.

You may believe what you wish about the “rep” of your cult,… but that doesn’t change reality.

You are welcome to your beliefs and your organizations (cults), but you will be judged on your behaviors.

I’ve seen no explanation of your cult’s behaviors that didn’t present it as anything but a juvenile paranoid schizoidal fraternity prank gone WAY over the top.

I’ve got to hand it to LRon,… good job dude…!! Alastair, and the other minnions of you-know-where, are SO proud of you…! Parties every night, no doubt.

Oh,… that’s right,… that’s not how hell works. Sorry. Forgot. All due apologies…!

 

[Thetan]

So when people are told that they can be Catholic and study Scientology, that is not true? Or can I be part of a Christian religion and be part of a non-Christian religion? People that are part of Scientology would not have a problem with me attending Mass, praying to God and going to Confession? That would be fine with them. It would not cause any issues? Because I would think that they would not want me part of a Christian religion.

And I am sorry, I just can’t get past the idea that keeping part of the religion secret is okay with you. That would make me really wonder about what they were hiding from me. Okay, so I wouldn’t understand it because I don’t know enough. So what. Tell me anyway, there shouldn’t be secrets in religion. And I really don’t care what you want to tell me about how the Catholic religion did that in the past. I, personally, would want to know all about a religion before I could consider what they say.

Scientology’s view is that b/c it is an applied religious philosophy, you can practice it and any other religion. Scientology has no problem with you going to Mass, praying to the Christian concept of God, Confession, etc. In practice, I would say that at some point you would have to make a decision if you were Catholic, Scientologist, or some mix between the two. Some people can find a balance between the two.

Scientology’s core beliefs are not secret. The essence of Scientology is not secret. The vast majority of scriptures are not secret. Scientology is in the same category as other mystery, esoteric, gnostic religions. This does not bother me and other Scientologists. The theory that some truths are so great that they must be learned in a gradient structure does not bother us. I knew a lot about Scientology, it’s core beliefs, etc. before I joined. I don’t think you can know “all about a religion” before you consider it. I’m sure you’ll admit that we are always learning more in our practices. How this learning occurs is different though. You can talk to others at various levels in Scientology and see how it is greatly affecting their lives in a positive way. The spiritual experiences that I have had prove to me that Scientology is for me and that it works. It really does a disservice to a religion to learn about it from websites like xenu.net or xenutv.com, and others b/c it makes more sense to read actual Church of Scientology websites and books. The amount of knowledge contained in these books would keep you occupied for a long time.

 

[Thetan]

It’s very interesting reading, I’m sure.

The problem is that it’s got nothing to do with “religion”, in my opinion, and would only be “useful” to me to illustrate to a scientologist where they are in error.

My religion simply states that your religion, and I only barely stop from gagging using the word “religion” to describe it, is utter nonsense. Period.

I’m not interested in converting CoSies.

The info from the CoS about the CoS is pure SciFi.

…and merely proves the insanity of it’s founder and adherants.

There’s money, and time at labor, correct?

What is “time at labor” if not money?

Bottom line, you PAY something, no doubt gratefully, for the SECRET POWER to do POWERFUL things. Ooooo… nifty.

That would be correct. Why do you care how I see your cult?

You care because it’s hurtful to you to think that the marvelousness that is the CoS might be demeaned by having it described as a cult.

Show me how it’s NOT a cult.

When someone comes here and states the the Church is a cult, we all laugh and ask the stater why he thinks that, if we care about his opinion at all.

The Church (Cath) has been dealing with people calling it every name in the book. How does the Church react, by explaining itself, which sharpens it’s knowledge of itself nicely in the process by the way.

What does the CoS do in response to “criticism”?

You tell me.

A cult is not necessarily a cult of “personality”,… though LRon sounds pretty “personality” obsessed to me.

Your cult is one of SECRET POWER bought at a price.

It’s a classic pyramid scheme.

I’m not going to argue the meaning of “cult” with you. You folks smell like a cult, so you’re a cult,… unless you can convince me otherwise.

Yes it is a disrespectful attitude toward your religion. Your point would be…?

That which seeks respect should show why it’s due respect, not simply assume that respect should be granted it.

You folks are a “threatening” cult, as opposed to a “fun” cult, because of your outward behaviors, not for your beliefs.

I like “fun” cults whose behaviors are not obnoxious. Your cult demonstrates extreme obnoxiousness.

Deal with it. You can do so by explaining yourselves, or by continuing to allow your obnoxious behavior to explain for you.

As I said, your cult is objectionable because of it’s behavior, not because it’s a cult.

You may believe what you wish about the “rep” of your cult,… but that doesn’t change reality.

You are welcome to your beliefs and your organizations (cults), but you will be judged on your behaviors.

I’ve seen no explanation of your cult’s behaviors that didn’t present it as anything but a juvenile paranoid schizoidal fraternity prank gone WAY over the top.

I’ve got to hand it to LRon,… good job dude…!! Alastair, and the other minnions of you-know-where, are SO proud of you…! Parties every night, no doubt.

Oh,… that’s right,… that’s not how hell works. Sorry. Forgot. All due apologies…!

thank you for demeaning my religion, as well as myself by calling me(and other Scientologists) insane. I will continue to respond to those that are more respectful in their inquiries into my religion. Scientology is not about secret powers, which you would know if you read our website and actual Scientology documents. Scientology is about discovering who you are, as a spirit. thank you for your time.

 

[Thetan]

Scientology is a modern form of Gnosticism. It has an esoteric appeal and it attracts people because of its association with the wealthy and successful. Many people these days are looking for the secret to success,wealth,and personal happiness,the elimination of personal guilt and suffering,and they find it in The Secret,Tony Robbins and other success gurus,Eastern pseudo-religious/spiritualist personalities,yoga,Scientology,Utilitarian philosophy,cabala,Prosperity Christianity,and other things.Many people want spirituality without religion,then go for religion without God.

or, many people simply aren’t interested in Christianity. Many of us find other religions more appealing. You find Catholicism more appealing, and contains The Truth.

 

[Keikiolu]

Scientology’s view is that b/c it is an applied religious philosophy, you can practice it and any other religion. Scientology has no problem with you going to Mass, praying to the Christian concept of God, Confession, etc. In practice, I would say that at some point you would have to make a decision if you were Catholic, Scientologist, or some mix between the two. Some people can find a balance between the two.

You can’t profess Christianity (Catholic) and be a member of the CoS, any more than you can be a Mason and Catholic.

Scientology’s core beliefs are not secret. The essence of Scientology is not secret. The vast majority of scriptures are not secret. Scientology is in the same category as other mystery, esoteric, gnostic religions. This does not bother me and other Scientologists. The theory that some truths are so great that they must be learned in a gradient structure does not bother us. I knew a lot about Scientology, it’s core beliefs, etc. before I joined. I don’t think you can know “all about a religion” before you consider it. I’m sure you’ll admit that we are always learning more in our practices. How this learning occurs is different though. You can talk to others at various levels in Scientology and see how it is greatly affecting their lives in a positive way. The spiritual experiences that I have had prove to me that Scientology is for me and that it works. It really does a disservice to a religion to learn about it from websites like xenu.net or xenutv.com, and others b/c it makes more sense to read actual Church of Scientology websites and books. The amount of knowledge contained in these books would keep you occupied for a long time.

A lovely lullaby into the weirdness that is the CoS. Sounds pretty nifty doesn’t it? So did that fruit of that curious tree in that lovely garden.

Gnosticism is a heresy not to be played with.

End of story.

 

[Keikiolu]

thank you for demeaning my religion, as well as myself by calling me(and other Scientologists) insane.

You’re quite welcome.

To describe someone as insane is not to call them “bad”, only highly disordered.

I do in fact think you and all members of the CoS are insane,… but that doesn’t mean very much as the particular form of insanity you all are afflicted with is “socially acceptable”, until you (in particular or as a group) behave in a way that isn’t “socially acceptable”.

Perhaps I’m insane too?

May we each become the best people we can be despite or because of our particular insanity.

I will continue to respond to those that are more respectful in their inquiries into my religion. Scientology is not about secret powers, which you would know if you read our website and actual Scientology documents. Scientology is about discovering who you are, as a spirit. thank you for your time.

Scientology purports to make you “better”.

Make that happen.

What do I see of Scientology?

A scam desparately defensive about it’s “rep”, and capable and willing to do whatever it needs to do to survive and attract the Gnostically inclined.

Read up on Gnosticism, and why it is a dangerous heresy.

 

[Keikiolu]

Looks like xenu.net is back…

Bare Faced Messiah

…why is this NOT a quadrillogy of movies…?

Oh,… Hollywood,… right. Silly me.

 

[heathernoel]

Xenu plays no role in the Church of Scientology. As stated before, people have taken our documents, changed them, and presented them as the original.

answers.com/topic/xenu

cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/ (see Xenu’s role as per Hubbard)

chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?NoticeID=232 One of the reasons we won’t see official word on Xenu.

Ok. I tried looking for non antiscientology related sites that talked about Xenu, but couldn’t find too many. But, I didn’t understand the threats about the copyright things…

How did your family first find their religion? I hope you don’t mind such a personal question…if you do, I understand. But I am just really curious about how people get to your Church…I can’t wrap my mind around it (no insult intended…but I have the same curiuosity about Mormonism…).

Your Church, much like the Catholic church at times, suffers from bad publicity from H’wood, who lend credence to the idea that only the elite can afford ‘enlightenment’. The detractors of your Church have raised some really valid questions, and I was excited to read the answers from this site… scientologymyths.info/random-rumors/is-there-an-underground-metal-tomb.php and realized the sources, when traced back, are blatantly left leaning rags who are either directly related ‘indirectly’ to the church (support given)…and even if they wanted to tell the truth, couldn’t because of being sued…

I am genuinely very skeptical, and I don’t know that you could change my mind, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to learn though.

God Bless You,
Heather

 

[Thetan]

answers.com/topic/xenu

cs.cmu.edu/~dst/OTIII/ (see Xenu’s role as per Hubbard)

chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?NoticeID=232 One of the reasons we won’t see official word on Xenu.

Ok. I tried looking for non antiscientology related sites that talked about Xenu, but couldn’t find too many. But, I didn’t understand the threats about the copyright things…

How did your family first find their religion? I hope you don’t mind such a personal question…if you do, I understand. But I am just really curious about how people get to your Church…I can’t wrap my mind around it (no insult intended…but I have the same curiuosity about Mormonism…).

Your Church, much like the Catholic church at times, suffers from bad publicity from H’wood, who lend credence to the idea that only the elite can afford ‘enlightenment’. The detractors of your Church have raised some really valid questions, and I was excited to read the answers from this site… scientologymyths.info/random-rumors/is-there-an-underground-metal-tomb.php and realized the sources, when traced back, are blatantly left leaning rags who are either directly related ‘indirectly’ to the church (support given)…and even if they wanted to tell the truth, couldn’t because of being sued…

I am genuinely very skeptical, and I don’t know that you could change my mind, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t like to learn though.

God Bless You,
Heather

Heather,

You won’t find any official Church of Scientology sites on Xenu, because it is not one of our actual beliefs. It is always thrown around by anti and ex-Scientologists as one of our beliefs so that they can portray us as believing in space aliens, UFOs, etc. when we do not.

The problem with the copyrighted materials is not that it is simply copyrighted, but the manner in which it is used. When materials are given out and altered, that is when the Church of Scientology steps in. When certain materials are not meant for the general population(noting the esoteric nature of my religion) and are displayed, with changes, that is when the Church of Scientology steps in. I hope that makes sense.

Only my father is a Scientologist. My mother is not. He found Scientology many years ago, I am not sure how(we don’t really talk about old times). I personally made the decision to become a Scientologist after doing much of my own research. My parents did not raise me with a religion, so I did my own research and my own decisions. I found Scientology when I was walking in NYC, and happened upon a Church of Scientology. At first I confused it with Christian Science. Then i did research and found out its history, etc. It appealed to me a lot because I was interested in the mind, and the people I talked to seemed to be very vibrant and happy and experienced so many things that I did not find in other religions. I read the What is Scientology? book, as well as Dianetics, and they both resonated with me. I’ve been a Scientologist now for 10 years, and I can’t imagine being anything else. I’ve done MUCH independent research into both sides of Scientology. I’ve ready every anti-Scientology site, especially xenu.net, the main one. I’ve seen every Scientology documentary, including the recent ones. I’ve seen all the videos on xenutv.com. I am still a Scientologist. That is because I know that anti-Scientologists really have no clue what we really believe.

People come to Scientology for many reasons. We offer an applied philosophy, where you can actually see results and effects of our religion. We offer a way to make actual changes in lives. We offer a great community of practitioners. Many convert from other religions. Many were atheists at first. Many of us have looked into Christianity, but Scientology called us more. I personally looked into Orthodox Christianity, and did not find anything that called me. It is a very fascinating and colorful religion, but Scientology’s core teachings and practices called me.

Hope that all made sense!

 

[kellie]

thank you for your views. I agree. Scientology is definitely different on this view, though it is a slightly similar ancient practice of Christianity of no divulging everything at the beginning.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_religion

We do divulge everything at the beginning though.

Like I tried saying earlier.

A non-Catholic can stay through an entire Mass and see what goes on during the liturgy of the Eucharist. It is no secret what we do during this part of the Mass.

As the other poster explained, this is the most sensible time though to take out the Catechumens and teach them our faith, as they cannot physically receive the Eucharist yet.

But it is and always has been divulged at the beginning.

There is no surprise to the Catechumens as to what they are about to receive during the Eucharist when they do become Catholic.

 

[Thetan]

We do divulge everything at the beginning though.

Like I tried saying earlier.

A non-Catholic can stay through an entire Mass and see what goes on during the liturgy of the Eucharist. It is no secret what we do during this part of the Mass.

As the other poster explained, this is the most sensible time though to take out the Catechumens and teach them our faith, as they cannot physically receive the Eucharist yet.

But it is and always has been divulged at the beginning.

There is no surprise to the Catechumens as to what they are about to receive during the Eucharist when they do become Catholic.

kellie, I do understand the practices of the Catholic Church. What I was referring to was an ancient practice of Christianity, not a current practice.

 

[Keikiolu]

…{snip}…

It’s behavior like this (intimidation of free speech) that tells all that needs to be told about the “spirit” of the CoS.

End of story, folks.

…Or is it?

Thetan,. convince me otherwise.

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Morning_Star15]

Scientology’s view is that b/c it is an applied religious philosophy, you can practice it and any other religion. Scientology has no problem with you going to Mass, praying to the Christian concept of God, Confession, etc. In practice, I would say that at some point you would have to make a decision if you were Catholic, Scientologist, or some mix between the two. Some people can find a balance between the two.

Scientology’s core beliefs are not secret. The essence of Scientology is not secret. The vast majority of scriptures are not secret. Scientology is in the same category as other mystery, esoteric, gnostic religions. This does not bother me and other Scientologists. ** The theory that some truths are so great that they must be learned in a gradient structure does not bother us**. I knew a lot about Scientology, it’s core beliefs, etc. before I joined. I don’t think you can know “all about a religion” before you consider it. I’m sure you’ll admit that we are always learning more in our practices. How this learning occurs is different though. You can talk to others at various levels in Scientology and see how it is greatly affecting their lives in a positive way. The spiritual experiences that I have had prove to me that Scientology is for me and that it works. It really does a disservice to a religion to learn about it from websites like xenu.net or xenutv.com, and others b/c it makes more sense to read actual Church of Scientology websites and books. The amount of knowledge contained in these books would keep you occupied for a long time.

Why should the assumption that people wouldn’t be able to understand certain pieces of imformation unless they learned it gradually lead to making that information inaccessible to them? Sure, not every beginner Christian or non-Christian would be able to understand the entire Bible or complex theological treatises by theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas, but that doesn’t mean we keep it a secret from them! We make it available to them to learn, and offer to help them out if they need help understanding it. I’m sorry, but there’s just no excuse for a religion to keep secret information from its followers or the outside world, no matter how slow people might be at learning.

 

[Thetan]

Why should the assumption that people wouldn’t be able to understand certain pieces of imformation unless they learned it gradually lead to making that information inaccessible to them? Sure, not every beginner Christian or non-Christian would be able to understand the entire Bible or complex theological treatises by theologians like St. Thomas Aquinas, but that doesn’t mean we keep it a secret from them! We make it available to them to learn, and offer to help them out if they need help understanding it. I’m sorry, but there’s just no excuse for a religion to keep secret information from its followers or the outside world, no matter how slow people might be at learning.

Morning Star,

This is how it has been since the ancient times in the mystery religion tradition. Our belief is that such information would not make any sense without the adequate preparation, training, experiences, etc. The Church of Scientology adequately prepares its practitioners for the experiences at these higher levels. Once someone is attests to the knowledge and experiences they have had, they can experience, literally, spiritual immortality itself. Please understand that all Scientologists are privy to the organization of Scientology before they join. If this is not of interest to them, they don’t join. The secret nature of the Operating Thetan levels are stated as such by the Church of Scientology. Thus is the difference between “revealed religions” and “mystery religions”.

 

[Morning_Star15]

kellie, I do understand the practices of the Catholic Church. What I was referring to was an ancient practice of Christianity, not a current practice.

Even in the ancient practice, as I explained, everything WAS divulged to catechumens, and even to non-Christians. St. Justin Martyr even wrote letters to the Roman emperor who was persecuting the Church, explaining the Faith to him! I explained in a previous post the reasoning behind the catechumens leaving during the Liturgy of the Eucharist, and none of it had to do with secret information, because there never WAS any secret information in the Catholic Church. So this is not a good comparison to draw.

 

[maryjk]

Morning Star,
This is how it has been since the ancient times in the mystery religion tradition. **Our belief is that such information would not make any sense without the adequate preparation, training, experiences, etc. **The Church of Scientology adequately prepares its practitioners for the experiences at these higher levels. Once someone is attests to the knowledge and experiences they have had, they can experience, literally, spiritual immortality itself. Please understand that all Scientologists are privy to the organization of Scientology before they join. If this is not of interest to them, they don’t join. The secret nature of the Operating Thetan levels are stated as such by the Church of Scientology. Thus is the difference between “revealed religions” and “mystery religions”.

I don’t understand Physics, but it is not hidden from me. I can pick up the book at any time and read through it.

So, before someone joins your religion, they are told, straight up, that there are things about the religion that they cannot know. That until they reach a certain level, it is hidden from them? The fact that that there is a secret part of the religion is not kept from them?

 

[Thetan]

I don’t understand Physics, but it is not hidden from me. I can pick up the book at any time and read through it.

So, before someone joins your religion, they are told, straight up, that there are things about the religion that they cannot know. That until they reach a certain level, it is hidden from them? The fact that that there is a secret part of the religion is not kept from them?

Here is a better analogy:

I might want to take a Physical Chemistry course in college. Can I take it just because I want to or I think I’m ready? No, I have to fulfill the prerequisites. I need to take a year of General Chemistry then a year of Organic Chemistry before I can learn Physical Chemistry. It won’t make sense to me otherwise. Can I read about the goal of the course? Yes, as you can in Scientology(if you look at the Grade Chart/Bridge to Total Freedom, you will see a brief description of every level of the Chart).

And yes, everyone in Scientology knows full well that the Operating Thetan levels of the religion are “secret” and not available to the general public. As I’ve said, this is nothing new in the field of religion. Mystery religions have been around for thousands of years. Scientology follows in that tradition. Eastern religions have similar practices as well. Also, this is not a problem for Scientologists b/c the VAST majority of our beliefs are readily available online and in books. The newest edition of the Church published book What is Scientology? is now 1000 pages long.