Scientology

[Thetan]

scientology.org/en_US/religion/bridge/pg005.html

The levels of Scientology. Also called Scientology Gradation and Awareness Chart or The Bridge to Total Freedom.

 

[kellie]

kellie, I do understand the practices of the Catholic Church. What I was referring to was an ancient practice of Christianity, not a current practice.

IF it was an ancient practice, there is a reason it is no longer done.

It is absurd.

 

[Sixtus]

I am somewhat confused about the name ‘Scientology’!

My understanding is that ‘ology’ means ‘the study of’. ‘Scien’ is obviously ‘Science’. How is Scientology the study of science?

 

[maryjk]

Here is a better analogy:

I might want to take a Physical Chemistry course in college. Can I take it just because I want to or I think I’m ready? No, I have to fulfill the prerequisites. I need to take a year of General Chemistry then a year of Organic Chemistry before I can learn Physical Chemistry. It won’t make sense to me otherwise. Can I read about the goal of the course? Yes, as you can in Scientology(if you look at the Grade Chart/Bridge to Total Freedom, you will see a brief description of every level of the Chart).

And yes, everyone in Scientology knows full well that the Operating Thetan levels of the religion are “secret” and not available to the general public. As I’ve said, this is nothing new in the field of religion. Mystery religions have been around for thousands of years. Scientology follows in that tradition. Eastern religions have similar practices as well. Also, this is not a problem for Scientologists b/c the VAST majority of our beliefs are readily available online and in books. The newest edition of the Church published book What is Scientology? is now 1000 pages long.

Even if you couldn’t take the class, you could audit it. You could sit in, listen to everything and then decide if it was for you. You could buy the book they use in the class. Or am I wrong.

 

[Thetan]

I am somewhat confused about the name ‘Scientology’!

My understanding is that ‘ology’ means ‘the study of’. ‘Scien’ is obviously ‘Science’. How is Scientology the study of science?

Science, scien, etc, all come from the same root, the Latin scientia, meaning knowledge. Scientology is the study of knowledge.

 

[Morning_Star15]

Even if you couldn’t take the class, you could audit it. You could sit in, listen to everything and then decide if it was for you. You could buy the book they use in the class. Or am I wrong.

Exactly. You might not be allowed to take the course itself without meeting the prerequisites, but no one is going to put a sign on the course textbook or on the classroom door that reads “Top secret! - you’re forbidden to touch/ enter unless you’ve taken Biology 1000!” Anyone is welcome to look at any of the information from the course or to sit in on the course, granted that there’s enough space in the classrom/ lecture hall. Educational institutions don’t keep any secrets from their students, so this analogy doesn’t work either. Face it, Thetan, there is no logical reason to hide information from people “for their own good” - people only hide information if they have something to hide (or in the case of Scientology if they can make people pay them thousands of dollars to find out).

 

[Keikiolu]

Morning Star,

This is how it has been since the ancient times in the mystery religion tradition. Our belief is that such information would not make any sense without the adequate preparation, training, experiences, etc. The Church of Scientology adequately prepares its practitioners for the experiences at these higher levels. Once someone is attests to the knowledge and experiences they have had, they can experience, literally, spiritual immortality itself. Please understand that all Scientologists are privy to the organization of Scientology before they join. If this is not of interest to them, they don’t join. The secret nature of the Operating Thetan levels are stated as such by the Church of Scientology. Thus is the difference between “revealed religions” and “mystery religions”.

Why are “mystery religions”, or their “technologies”, DISCOURAGED by real, revealed religions?

Because “mystery religions” NEVER promote monotheistic thought and action, and seek to give man “control” of things that man can only THINK that he can control, which ALWAYS entails a “selling of one’s soul” to the purveyor of the “mystery”.

It’s not a coincidence that LRon and Alistair (example)(google)(woof!) are associated.

ALL “mystery religions” are bogus, in all times, and are simply creations of men who desire power over others as they’ve been (spiritually) informed by the great deceiver, which is a true “religious experience” with you-know-who, who has convinced them that they can “be like gods”.

…old news, don’t you think?

Mahalo ke Akua…!
E pili mau na pomaikai ia oe. Aloha nui.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan wrote:
I don’t believe Christ is mentioned in Scientology. I would have to say that if someone ends up controlling others–how can what they follow, be ‘working’ for them??

Christ isn’t mentioned because we are a non-Christian religion…

Through my work occasionally came into contact with a person who was into Scientology. On learning that I was Catholic, felt that I would be very interested in Scientology as he alleged it gave a more scientific way of thinking about Christ as Saviour.

I met with him after work so he could explain Scientology to me. Quite frankly, it sounded a bit weired so never took it any further.

From what I have read here, it seems I had a lucky escape. He never told me it was a Cult founded for the purpose of extracting money and conspiring to defraud. I think that is really shocking.

Thetan knows he has lost the arguement. That is why he has resorted to being offensive and telling lies about Catholicism. That is the classic behaviour of someone who has lost a fight, they try to score cheap points on vulnerable and irrelevant targets.

 

[Thetan]

Through my work occasionally came into contact with a person who was into Scientology. On learning that I was Catholic, felt that I would be very interested in Scientology as he alleged it gave a more scientific way of thinking about Christ as Saviour.

I met with him after work so he could explain Scientology to me. Quite frankly, it sounded a bit weired so never took it any further.

From what I have read here, it seems I had a lucky escape. He never told me it was a Cult founded for the purpose of extracting money and conspiring to defraud. I think that is really shocking.

Thetan knows he has lost the arguement. That is why he has resorted to being offensive and telling lies about Catholicism. That is the classic behaviour of someone who has lost a fight, they try to score cheap points on vulnerable and irrelevant targets.

As I asked in your PM, where have I told lies about Catholicism? If you think I did, you did not understand what I wrote. Also, I highly doubt that your coworker was an actual Scientologist because 1)We don’t have any beliefs on Christ because we are a non-Christian religion. and 2)what “science” was your friend talking about? I’ve been a Scientologist for a long time, and have yet to hear the word “science” mentioned in relation to our religion.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan wrote: As I asked in your PM, where have I told lies about Catholicism?

Catholics in my experience do not support bigotry.

Neither in my experience, do they propagate offensive material about other religious views, with the intent of being offensive and profane. I consider anyone so desperate to resort to such measures is highly indicative that they have lost both the arguement and their credibility.

 

[Thetan]

Catholics in my experience do not support bigotry.

Neither in my experience, do they propagate offensive material about other religious views, with the intent of being offensive and profane. I consider anyone so desperate to resort to such measures is highly indicative that they have lost both the arguement and their credibility.

Sixtus, could you please provide examples of where I propagated offensive material about Catholicism? You will not find any. I did not say a single thing offensive about Catholicism.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan wrote:

I highly doubt that your coworker was an actual Scientologist because 1)We don’t have any beliefs on Christ because we are a non-Christian religion. and 2)what “science” was your friend talking about? I’ve been a Scientologist for a long time, and have yet to hear the word “science” mentioned in relation to our religion.

First he was definitely not a co-worker. He was an associate.

Second he was very committed to Scientology.

So if you do not believe in Christ the Saviour and are non-Christian [by your own admission], the Scientology Associate of whom I spoke, had obviously lied in order to get me interested in Scientology because I am in no doubt that he said that “as a Christian, Scientology would be of great interest to me”.

I stand by what I have said: Thetan 'to use bigotry and lies to score cheap points off Catholics is offensive and profane"

 

[Thetan]

First he was definitely not a co-worker. He was an associate.

Second he was very committed to Scientology.

So if you do not believe in Christ the Saviour and are non-Christian [by your own admission], the Scientology Associate of whom I spoke, had obviously lied in order to get me interested in Scientology because I am in no doubt that he said that “as a Christian, Scientology would be of great interest to me”.

I stand by what I have said: Thetan 'to use bigotry and lies to score cheap points off Catholics is offensive and profane"

Sure he lied, people lie. I’m sure you wouldn’t say that all Catholics follow the precepts of the religion, or are truthful. I have never told anyone that “as a Christian, Scientology would be of great interest to [you]”. So this really is a moot point. The Church of Scientology is a non Christian religion. Hinduism is a non Christian religion. Therefore our religions have nothing to do with Jesus Christ or Christianity.

And I’m still waiting to see where I “used bigotry and lies to score cheap points off Catholics”. I’m sure you won’t find any.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan wrote:

Yes, and Catholics worship Mary, pray to statues, attribute special status to a man, believe in apparitions of dead people, etc.

This is nothing short of the age old falsities and bigotries from time imemorial.

Find me one Catholic, just one, that is all I ask, just one, who worships Mary or prays to statues.

We honour [not the same as worship] Mary as Mother of the Risen Lord, who as second Person of the Most Holy Trinity is by definition God, therefore she is the Mother of God.

We reserve ‘worship’ to God alone

Worshipping statues is against the first commandment which you will well know. We do not worship graven images, which is what a statue would be if we worshipped it. Statues are aids to meditation. That is all they are, they are not worshipped.

The special status to a man I presume is reference to the Pope. He is ‘the servant of the servants of God’. His office ordained in Sacred Scripture, where the Risen Christ commissioned him specifically Jn 21: 15 - 17.

 

[Thetan]

Thetan wrote:

This is nothing short of the age old falsities and bigotries from time imemorial.

Find me one Catholic, just one, that is all I ask, just one, who worships Mary or prays to statues.

We honour [not the same as worship] Mary as Mother of the Risen Lord, who as second Person of the Most Holy Trinity is by definition God, therefore she is the Mother of God.

We reserve ‘worship’ to God alone

Worshipping statues is against the first commandment which you will well know. We do not worship graven images, which is what a statue would be if we worshipped it. Statues are aids to meditation. That is all they are, they are not worshipped.

The special status to a man I presume is reference to the Pope. He is ‘the servant of the servants of God’. His office ordained in Sacred Scripture, where the Risen Christ commissioned him specifically Jn 21: 15 - 17.

Thank you for posting that quote out of context. In all of my research of the Catholic Church, it is she that always says to not take Bible quotes out of context. In that same light, you took my quote out of context. Let’s look at what I fully said:

-post 66, where your quote is from. I quoted Hellisreal, who made a similar comment about the Church of Scientology and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. I simply replaced “JW” and another part and replaced it with Catholic Church and the usual “beliefs” that are cited by Fundamentalists showing that the Catholic Church is a cult, when they clearly misunderstand actual Catholic beliefs. My point, as you’ll see if you read the entire thread, was that people were calling the Church of Scientology, my religion, a cult, using misinterpreted statements and beliefs as evidence. I was simply showing a counterpoint using the same logic.

-post 69, I clearly stated: “Funny how you go to anti-Scientology websites to make claims about us. Guess I’ll have to start going to anti-Catholic websites and read Chick Tracts to find out what you REALLY believe”, which follows my point above.

-And to further counter your accusation, post 77:
“How many sites have I read that talk about how the Catholic Church(usually called Romanism, Papism, Mariolatry, etc.) is a cult. That you worship statues, Mary, angels, saints, wafers, etc. That you’ve invented beliefs recently. That you’ve added books to the Bible. That you believe that priests have powers to turn bread into the body of Jesus. Do I think these are your actual beliefs? No, b/c I’ve read what actual Catholics believe, not what anti or ex-Catholics believe.”

-post 79:
“K, please see my above response. I KNOW that those are not the beliefs of the Catholic Church. I’ve researched it extensively. Religion is one of my favorite topics. My point is that this is what anti and ex-Catholics WANT you to believe, therefore if I went to such websites to learn about Catholicism, this is what I’d learn.”

“I do not categorize the Catholic Church as a cult. It is a religion. Yet you classify mine as a cult. My point is that whenever I see a fundamentalist come onto Catholic boards here and elsewhere, there is a whole debate about how they are wrong, and that the Catholic Church is not a cult, etc. I’m sure you know that the word cult has a very negative stigma to it. We are not involved in the classical practices of a cult, including worshipping some man and brainwashing. Neither is the Catholic Church. Yet some consider your Church a cult. I do not. That is my point. We care if people call our religion a cult b/c it is NOT.”

Thank you for playing.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan wrote:

And I’m still waiting to see where I “used bigotry and lies to score cheap points off Catholics”. I’m sure you won’t find any.

I quote you: Thetan also wrote:

Yes, and Catholics worship Mary, pray to statues, attribute special status to a man, believe in apparitions of dead people, etc.

This is nothing short of the age old falsities and bigotries from time imemorial.

Find me one Catholic, just one, that is all I ask, just one, who worships Mary or prays to statues.

We honour [not the same as worship] Mary as Mother of the Risen Lord, who as second Person of the Most Holy Trinity is by definition God, therefore she is the Mother of God.

We reserve ‘worship’ to God alone

Worshipping statues is against the first commandment which you will well know. We do not worship graven images, which is what a statue would be if we worshipped it. Statues are aids to meditation. That is all they are, they are not worshipped.

The special status to a man I presume is reference to the Pope. He is ‘the servant of the servants of God’. His office ordained in Sacred Scripture, where the Risen Christ commissioned him specifically Jn 21: 15 - 17.

 

[Thetan]

I quote you: Thetan also wrote:

This is nothing short of the age old falsities and bigotries from time imemorial.

Find me one Catholic, just one, that is all I ask, just one, who worships Mary or prays to statues.

We honour [not the same as worship] Mary as Mother of the Risen Lord, who as second Person of the Most Holy Trinity is by definition God, therefore she is the Mother of God.

We reserve ‘worship’ to God alone

Worshipping statues is against the first commandment which you will well know. We do not worship graven images, which is what a statue would be if we worshipped it. Statues are aids to meditation. That is all they are, they are not worshipped.

The special status to a man I presume is reference to the Pope. He is ‘the servant of the servants of God’. His office ordained in Sacred Scripture, where the Risen Christ commissioned him specifically Jn 21: 15 - 17.

see above. I guess you reposted.

 

[Sixtus]

Thetan said:

whenever I see a fundamentalist come onto Catholic boards here and elsewhere, there is a whole debate about how they are wrong,

My friend, I can assure you I have never debated about how someone else may be wrong. Who am I to say that?

Who am I to say ‘to whom the Holy Spirit choses to speak?’

God bless you

 

[Thetan]

Thetan said:

My friend, I can assure you I have never debated about how someone else may be wrong. Who am I to say that?

Who am I to say ‘to whom the Holy Spirit choses to speak?’

God bless you

…i was referring to the arguments about Catholic beliefs. I’ve seen it happen on this board, and boards on Beliefnet, where fundamentalists say what I quoted them as saying. That Catholics worship Mary, attribute special status to a man, worship dead people, etc.

Speaking about arguments, this one is way off topic. My point is that I never said that Catholics believe that the Pope is more than a man, they worship Mary and dead saints, etc. This is evidenced in the quotes that I posted. You quoted me out of context, and said context is provided above.

 

[JDaniel]

Thetan:

I’d like to ask you some questions:

1.) Is Jesus Christ essentially meaningless to Scientology?
2.) Does the CoS recognize that Jesus Christ is the Son of God?
3.) How exactly does God come to be in Scientology?
4.) What is meant by “theta-MEST”?
5.) Does Scientology believe in reincarnation?
6.) Do you believe in abortion?
7.) Do you believe in “sin”?
8.) How old is the universe?
9.) What exactly does “Operating Thetan” mean?

JD