SCOTLAND breaking news: Majority of St Andrews and Edinburgh parishes face closure

[lizardley]

In Scotland, Archbishop Leo Cushley’s letter to deans on parish reduction plans from 113 to 30 by 2035, beginning this year, has been read to parishioners over last few weeks and is causing great concern. The archbishop’s draft proposals have been prompted in part by falling numbers of clergy. The Archdiocese appears to be follows Glasgow where Archbishop Tartaglia announced similar plans where necessary last year.

Full report: sconews.co.uk/news/43372/majority-of-st-andrews-and-edinburgh-parishes-face-closure-by-2035/

 

[Pulvis]

Incredibly sad.

 

[benotagoat]

I have lots of family in Scotland who have left the Church.I am not there myself now ,but in my opinion it is the fault of the bad décisions made by hierarchy in guiding the Church for générations.
People are drifting from the Church as it has focused on the wrong things . Where is the guidance and discussion among the young who might be priests in a modern world which necessitates an understanding of God as a Creator who foresaw and directed all scientific developements. The Church treats people like infants in school,where repetition is how things are learned,but we grow up and if it was not for the internet there would be no discussion at all,as there never has been .Priests dictate and we follow ;Well no more .

The loss to he RCC does not neccessarily mean a loss to christianity ,although it may have ,but I am more active now as a Christian than I ever was as a catholic .

I went to chool for 12 years in a nuns school in Glasgow ,and not once did we ever have discussions about God ,the bible,or the catechism which should have been done in tandem with the Book . We were asked at first if we went to Mass ,and were read some old testament in primary ,but that was the extent of our religious education . I don’t take kindly to being told just to do and ask no questions which is what happened.
Thank God I had a good family many of whom loved Jesus and that was the bottom line .

The Church has spent too much time on silk gowns and tiaras ,and not enough time on inner searching and creating modern teaching methods of a Modern Eternal God .

PS priests need to be able to marry ,but that is only a beginning ,as they need to be better trained as well as being holy in Christ .

 

[zz912]

Very sad. Hopefully they can focus on teaching the faith and rebuilding from this. Make a focus in homilies of going over the basics of the faith.

I’ve told our pastor that he needs to assume that most of the people at mass don’t know even the basic of the faith, and they need to be taught it all over again. That he needed to stop focusing so much on HOW to live the faith, but instead of WHAT the faith is. If you don’t know the faith, then talking about how to live it is little more than a short self-help seminar and little else.

 

[FollowChrist34]

In Scotland, Archbishop Leo Cushley’s letter to deans on parish reduction plans from 113 to 30 by 2035, beginning this year, has been read to parishioners over last few weeks and is causing great concern. The archbishop’s draft proposals have been prompted in part by falling numbers of clergy. The Archdiocese appears to be follows Glasgow where Archbishop Tartaglia announced similar plans where necessary last year.

Full report: sconews.co.uk/news/43372/majority-of-st-andrews-and-edinburgh-parishes-face-closure-by-2035/

Yes, this is so sad, but not surprising. I mean they had the scandal with Cardinal O’Brien and that whole thing awhile back. It seems like the Church has fallen by the wayside for a vast majority of people in Europe (not just Scotland) - even more so than in the US. My concern is what they are replacing it with. Who was it said that anything worth living for is worth dying for? Dying for Christ (or Allah) is one thing; dying for the NHS, gay marriage, three people IVF and euthanasia is entirely another. Living for it can’t be much better…

 

[zz912]

but in my opinion it is the fault of the bad décisions made by hierarchy in guiding the Church for générations.

Agreed.

People are drifting from the Church as it has focused on the wrong things

.

Agreed

Where is the guidance and discussion among the young who might be priests in a modern world which necessitates an understanding of God as a Creator who foresaw and directed all scientific developements. The Church treats people like infants in school,where repetition is how things are learned,but we grow up and if it was not for the internet there would be no discussion at all,as there never has been .

It’s rare when priests in the US actually teach the faith in the homily.

Priests dictate and we follow ;Well no more .

Should the laity be in charge instead?

The loss to he RCC does not neccessarily mean a loss to christianity ,

Sure it does.

although it may have ,but I am more active now as a Christian than I ever was as a catholic .

That’s on you, not the Church. The Church needs you and your activeness now more than ever. So are you going to step up and help her?

I went to chool for 12 years in a nuns school in Glasgow ,and not once did we ever have discussions about God ,the bible,or the catechism which should have been done in tandem with the Book . We were asked at first if we went to Mass ,and were read some old testament in primary ,but that was the extent of our religious education .

Sad to hear, but not an isolated incident in the western world after Vatican II. Bishops and priests simply stopped preaching the faith and focused on worldly matters.

I don’t take kindly to being told just to do and ask no questions which is what happened.
Thank God I had a good family many of whom loved Jesus and that was the bottom line .

Bad teaching or a lack of teaching is not an excuse to leave the Church. It screams out for someone of great faith to step into the void and teach the faith when it is not being taught.

The Church has spent too much time on silk gowns and tiaras ,and not enough time on inner searching and creating modern teaching methods of a Modern Eternal God .

Nope. The Church lost focus on the majesty of God and the majesty of the faith. Many parishes today look like multi-use facilities for nondenominational sects, instead of authentically Christian churches. And I don’t see a need to try and create a new teaching method about God. The old methods haven’t been used at all to teach about God, so let’s try them first before re-creating the wheel.

PS priests need to be able to marry

The lack of vocations is not related to priestly celibacy. Other denominations are having vocational crises as well. The Church is having a vocation crises because priests and bishops stopped teaching the faith. And without an understanding of the majesty of the faith, there is no reason for a young man to commit to something he doesn’t know.

but that is only a beginning ,as they need to be better trained as well as being holy in Christ .

Agreed.

 

[mjs2001]

People are drifting from the Church as it has focused on the wrong things . Where is the guidance and discussion among the young who might be priests in a modern world which necessitates an understanding of God as a Creator who foresaw and directed all scientific developements. The Church treats people like infants in school,where repetition is how things are learned,but we grow up and if it was not for the internet there would be no discussion at all,as there never has been .Priests dictate and we follow ;Well no more .

The Church has spent too much time on silk gowns and tiaras ,and not enough time on inner searching and creating modern teaching methods of a Modern Eternal God .

PS priests need to be able to marry ,but that is only a beginning ,as they need to be better trained as well as being holy in Christ .

I agree with much of what you wrote and disagree with much, too. First, I absolutely agree that bishops and priests have a great responsibility in preserving, protecting, and passing down the Faith. Rod Peade and Christian Order has shown, time and again, how UK’s bishops and priests utterly failed in their duties in that regard. By the way, it has been no better in the US.

But I completely disagree with your conclusion that silk robes and celibacy is the cause of the collapse of the Church. Celibate priests, often wearing silk robes, built up Christendom and preserved the deposit of Faith. To suggest that sacrifice and dedication to one flock, as led by the Holy Spirit, can be replaced with modernity–and that the Modernity will protect the Faith instead of leading people into error is mere folly. We need faithful Bishops, nuns, and priests who overflow with God’s love and who understand that their role is to bring people into relationship with Jesus

 

[7_Sorrows]

This is very sad. Are we talking about the Church of Scotland or Catholic churches there? Either way that is a lot of parish closings.

 

[Denise1957]

From what I understand about Scotland and the Catholic faith, there’s been a crisis in catechesis for some time now. It’s much the same in Ireland. I assume that Archbishop Cushley is trying to find ways to foster vocations.

When St. John Mary Vianney was assigned his first (and only) parish in France after the revolution, the parish was in bad shape. The faithful were lukewarm at best. But St. John Vianney turned that around. He taught sound Catholic doctrine from the pulpit, including the nature of sin, but he also preached God’s mercy. He also had profound love for our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. He wanted beautiful things for the altar, because he believed that nothing is too good for God. Eventually, the parishioners became fervent in their faith, and crowds flocked to the parish just have the saintly priest hear their confessions.

St. John Vianney is the patron saint of priests, and it would be good to pray for his intercession, for increased vocations to the priesthood in Scotland.

And maybe they should consider, too, having just boys (no girls) serve at the altar. It might help!

 

[SWolf]

Sad to hear, but not an isolated incident in the western world after Vatican II. Bishops and priests simply stopped preaching the faith and focused on worldly matters.
.

If you asked a modern churchgoing Catholic the questions out of the Baltimore Catechism, I would be surprised if they got 10 percent in the ball park.

For all the talk of the bad old days when people just quoted verbatim Church teaching without understanding, now we have people who don’t even know Church teaching.

 

[rossum]

Celibate priests, often wearing silk robes, built up Christendom and preserved the deposit of Faith.

Probably not. The Eastern Orthodox have always had married priests, back to well before the split in 1054. For the first thousand years of Christendom, married priests were common.

rossum

 

[Elizium23]

Probably not. The Eastern Orthodox have always had married priests, back to well before the split in 1054. For the first thousand years of Christendom, married priests were common.

rossum

Meanwhile, celibate monks and bishops joined them in building up Christianity.

 

[benotagoat]

Very sad. Hopefully they can focus on teaching the faith and rebuilding from this. Make a focus in homilies of going over the basics of the faith.

I’ve told our pastor that he needs to assume that most of the people at mass don’t know even the basic of the faith, and they need to be taught it all over again. That he needed to stop focusing so much on HOW to live the faith, but instead of WHAT the faith is. If you don’t know the faith, then talking about how to live it is little more than a short self-help seminar and little else.

That is a very true statement ,but the catechism needs to be read in tandem with the bible.

The chuch needs to show HOW WHY the catechism has summed up religious practice,and to teach,discuss rather than preach at .

Good teaching can change peoples relationship with learning anything ,and in a modern world discussing with people is more presuasive that dictating as the latter in the long run either encourages ‘blind faith ’ ,or total ’ rebellion’ from those who believe that Jesus inspires ,and does not bully because He had no need to .

 

[benotagoat]

I agree with much of what you wrote and disagree with much, too. First, I absolutely agree that bishops and priests have a great responsibility in preserving, protecting, and passing down the Faith. Rod Peade and Christian Order has shown, time and again, how UK’s bishops and priests utterly failed in their duties in that regard. By the way, it has been no better in the US.

But I completely disagree with your conclusion that silk robes and celibacy is the cause of the collapse of the Church. Celibate priests, often wearing silk robes, built up Christendom and preserved the deposit of Faith. To suggest that sacrifice and dedication to one flock, as led by the Holy Spirit, can be replaced with modernity–and that the Modernity will protect the Faith instead of leading people into error is mere folly. We need faithful Bishops, nuns, and priests who overflow with God’s love and who understand that their role is to bring people into relationship with Jesus

I was thinking of that and when I said that, I had it in mind that instead of local women parishiners who made them ,they started to get mass production by atheist Parisien designers ,(especially those awful 'rainbow ones ’ ).

Which brings me back to the best practice, which was to create work around parishes,and communities ; I did not say that celibacy in itself is the cause of anything ,but I do think that if God created men and women ,then it should be part of the lives of those central to the Church the priests .
.

 

[benotagoat]

Agreed.

.

Agreed

It’s rare when priests in the US actually teach the faith in the homily.

Should the laity be in charge instead?

Sure it does.

That’s on you, not the Church. The Church needs you and your activeness now more than ever. So are you going to step up and help her?

Sad to hear, but not an isolated incident in the western world after Vatican II. Bishops and priests simply stopped preaching the faith and focused on worldly matters.

Bad teaching or a lack of teaching is not an excuse to leave the Church. It screams out for someone of great faith to step into the void and teach the faith when it is not being taught.

Nope. The Church lost focus on the majesty of God and the majesty of the faith. Many parishes today look like multi-use facilities for nondenominational sects, instead of authentically Christian churches. And I don’t see a need to try and create a new teaching method about God. The old methods haven’t been used at all to teach about God, so let’s try them first before re-creating the wheel.

The lack of vocations is not related to priestly celibacy. Other denominations are having vocational crises as well. The Church is having a vocation crises because priests and bishops stopped teaching the faith. And without an understanding of the majesty of the faith, there is no reason for a young man to commit to something he doesn’t know.

Agreed.

Well try to get anything done as a woman,and a thinker .Not possible .

But the bottom is about to fall out completely in my opinion, as, if Ireland votes for SSM , then a country which has held the line in so many ways will prove that the Church which has not been listening has failed so drastically, that a totally Renaissance is needed from top to bottom.

I have to add that there are too many bureaucrats between good priests and the laity,who often come between . It is not simply a matter of TEACHING Church catechism ,but of acting like christians towards people ,and being a good example of what is a chrstian,and THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE .
No teaching by good example,but often arrogant,uncharitable ,as well as other thinngs .

Jesus said “If you cannot love those close to you, whom you can see,how can you love God whom you have never seen” ? It is not just about the Majesty of God ,but about what a christian (catholic )looks like, acts like an in kindness and enlightenment .
They forgot that ,and they are paying for it ;

And it is about celibacy too . Laying burdens on priests which are uneccessary for their vocation (a choice of course ).

Luke 11 :46

Has celibacy attracted more who have a tendancy to homosexual attraction, and caused worse sin ?, Has it been really good for the Church except where absolutely neccessary ?
I don’t think so ,so why continue with it ?
And there will be no reason not to have monasteries for those who choose celibacy .