Scott hahn and the final cup

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vwtaylorii said:
So does that mean you have an infallible interpretation on this topic since you believe you listen what the Holy Spirit taught you and Scott Hahn didn’t?
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well, after putting my views forword, and getting such a reaction. I spent a few hours listening to Scotts tape “The Supper of The Lamb”: His premise seems to be : The words that were meant by “it is finished” refers to the completion of the ‘passover meal’. He takes of his teacher in the seminary who asked this question given the basis that the act of redemption has not been completed. Therefore, we do not understand Jesus words " it is finished". For these proofs he refers to the old testament , that the hysop branch was raised to the lipts of Christ giving Him The Sour wine. This in Scotts words was the culmination of the great Hillel that during the last supper was not completed. He notes John 19 as a refer 26-30. this where i believe Scott was mislead. Her wants to establish his own ideas rather then the true exploration of scripture. For as states at the begginng of the tape " indeed christ did die for our sin and died to remove our quilt, but the death of Christ is often reduced to that. Much to the neglect of some other glorious consequenses of Christs atoning death.this is what we would like to focus on today".
My rebuttal: What jesus referred to is not the 4th cup of Scoots premise but to the fulfillment of the scriptures . In john 17 we hear stated “after he had spoken these words, jesus looked up to heaven and he said: 'Father, the hour has come! Give glory to your son that your son may give glory to you,inasmuch as you have given him glory over all mankind, that he may give eternal life on those you gave him. I have given you glory on earth by finishing the work you have gave me to do…
Enter also the vinegar on the hyssop branch. This is another fulfillment
of scripture from psalm 69:21-22. " in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink”.

So my point is this: Scott was mislead by his original instructor to think that the “it is finished” refered to the passover meal or seder. Rather to the completion of the work that the Father sent Him to do. His passion and death upon which He never gave up the Life. Noone was going to take it from him. Psalm 22 is a statement that refers to this .
it was not his physical life, which they indeed took away, it was the life he lived with the Father.
One of the good points i took away fro the take of the 4th cup was this: That jesua took the vow of the nazarene. he said he would not drink of the cup again until he drank it with us in the kingdom. This aspect Scott points out clearly. That the 4th cup is the cup of ‘consummation’. I will ponder on this. I think it is worth more than consideration! Raymond King raymondking08@gmail.com
 
raymond_king said:
cynnical
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come clean buddy to tell everyone who you are and what you want from us poor ignorant christians. My wife calls me the ‘debunker’ .pope, bishop, senator, congressman, president. I treat all with justice and equity. Raymonski
 
ClayPots47 said:
Popcorn anyone? Butter? 🍿 Salt? 🍿 Plain? 🍿

(I can just see this thread is going to be quite entertaining, courtesy of the OP… )

[SIGN]Would you like Coke or Pepsi with your popcorn?[/SIGN]

God has given me judgement to discern that Pepsi is the beverage of choice to go with buttered and salted popcorn. See, I have credentials too, I Iisten to the Voice of God. HE teaches me that it is false to have Pepsi with anything other than buttered popcorn with salt, and that is what is True.

Hey, it makes about as much sense as what the OP claims! :rolleyes:
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Hey my wife likes pepsi and I like diet coke. We have had great debates over the ingenuous of our respective opinions. She really does not like pepsi! It took me awhile to convince her of her erroneous postion. But I prevailed, now, she drinks Pepsi and I drink diet coke. Is there still peace in the household? Such is the Life of the GREAT DEBATE? Raymonski
 
raymond_king said:
your funny pal: makes me think of comedy central who trys to draw argumentative christians in postions which you can exploite . Ray
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i,ve given you a few messages please continue to contact me. I called you cynical. I like this type of debate. could you by the soda—whatever brand yo wish. Raymonski This is what my sister calls me.😉
 
raymond_king said:
well, after putting my views forword, and getting such a reaction. I spent a few hours listening to Scotts tape “The Supper of The Lamb”: His premise seems to be : The words that were meant by “it is finished” refers to the completion of the ‘passover meal’. He takes of his teacher in the seminary who asked this question given the basis that the act of redemption has not been completed. Therefore, we do not understand Jesus words " it is finished". For these proofs he refers to the old testament , that the hysop branch was raised to the lipts of Christ giving Him The Sour wine. This in Scotts words was the culmination of the great Hillel that during the last supper was not completed. He notes John 19 as a refer 26-30. this where i believe Scott was mislead. Her wants to establish his own ideas rather then the true exploration of scripture. For as states at the begginng of the tape " indeed christ did die for our sin and died to remove our quilt, but the death of Christ is often reduced to that. Much to the neglect of some other glorious consequenses of Christs atoning death.this is what we would like to focus on today".
My rebuttal: What jesus referred to is not the 4th cup of Scoots premise but to the fulfillment of the scriptures . In john 17 we hear stated “after he had spoken these words, jesus looked up to heaven and he said: 'Father, the hour has come! Give glory to your son that your son may give glory to you,inasmuch as you have given him glory over all mankind, that he may give eternal life on those you gave him. I have given you glory on earth by finishing the work you have gave me to do…
Enter also the vinegar on the hyssop branch. This is another fulfillment
of scripture from psalm 69:21-22. " in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink”.

So my point is this: Scott was mislead by his original instructor to think that the “it is finished” refered to the passover meal or seder. Rather to the completion of the work that the Father sent Him to do. His passion and death upon which He never gave up the Life. Noone was going to take it from him. Psalm 22 is a statement that refers to this .
it was not his physical life, which they indeed took away, it was the life he lived with the Father.
One of the good points i took away fro the take of the 4th cup was this: That jesua took the vow of the nazarene. he said he would not drink of the cup again until he drank it with us in the kingdom. This aspect Scott points out clearly. That the 4th cup is the cup of ‘consummation’. I will ponder on this. I think it is worth more than consideration! Raymond King raymondking08@gmail.com
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If everything was finished on the cross, then Jesus didn’t need to be Raised from the dead, but Paul says in 1 Cor 15:17 ‘‘If Christ has not been raised, you are still in your sins’’

Therefore, the resurrection was necessary!! If Jesus meant that everything was finished on the cross in the way that you take it, then Jesus didn’t need to be raised.

Christ’s work, however, is finished, but, it needs to be applied to everyone through the holy spirit.Ive listened to this set and Scott Hahn actually says ‘‘Jesus work is finished, but it needs to be applied’’.

Can you answer these questions for me? Was the resurrection necessary? If so, How was everything finished on the cross?

This is the reason Dr. Hahn asks, what was the IT that was finished on the cross.
 
raymond_king said:
Hey my wife likes pepsi and I like diet coke. We have had great debates over the ingenuous of our respective opinions. She really does not like pepsi! It took me awhile to convince her of her erroneous postion. But I prevailed, now, she drinks Pepsi and I drink diet coke. Is there still peace in the household? Such is the Life of the GREAT DEBATE? Raymonski
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oh, by the way, given the true meaning, i do hear the voice of God. I listen to This daily. Give me a question, however esoteric, and I will answer it. Raymonski:🙂
 
raymond_king said:
oh, by the way, given the true meaning, i do hear the voice of God. I listen to This daily. Give me a question, however esoteric, and I will answer it. Raymonski:🙂
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How about answering the questions asked you.
 
Jerome81 said:
If everything was finished on the cross, then Jesus didn’t need to be Raised from the dead, but Paul says in 1 Cor 15:17 ‘‘If Christ has not been raised, you are still in your sins’’

Therefore, the resurrection was necessary!! If Jesus meant that everything was finished on the cross in the way that you take it, then Jesus didn’t need to be raised.

Christ’s work, however, is finished, but, it needs to be applied to everyone through the holy spirit.Ive listened to this set and Scott Hahn actually says ‘‘Jesus work is finished, but it needs to be applied’’.

Can you answer these questions for me? Was the resurrection necessary? If so, How was everything finished on the cross?

This is the reason Dr. Hahn asks, what was the IT that was finished on the cross./Q
The resurrection was necessary because all the works of the father where not completed on the cross. He ascended into heaven sits at the fathers right hand until all his enemies shall be put under his feet. the last of these shall be death. we will be raised up by the same glory of the father that raised jesus from the dead. we will hear the same voice of the ‘anointing’ . Jesus completed the work that the father gave him to do on this earth. it is being continued as jesus gives his allelleia to the father by the power of the holy spirit by which each of us are given access to our each individual prayer that is to our unique self. We make our prayer—ourself—through jesus christ our redeemer who gives us our own self-worth. Our TRUE self worth True means Holy Spirit This is Redemption . Ray
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raymond_king said:
oh, yes i do have credentials, Iisten to the Voice of God. HE teaches me what is false and what is True. Judgment is given to me to discern. Ray
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I Love you dude. You got my messages. please more more more. Raymonski:thumbsup:
 
raymond_king said:
I Love you dude. You got my messages. please more more more. Raymonski:thumbsup:
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…are you ok, dude? You’re not quoting anyone’s posts but your own and you seem to be carrying on a conversation with yourself this way. Perhaps you can try to respond to what others have said to you?
 
Little_One0307 said:
Should we flip a coin?

LOL. This is a nice site. I saved it to my favorites. Thanks for sharing it.

God bless.
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😉 That one has been around a long time, since the early days of chatrooms and forums. I bring it out from time to time on occasions such as these.

Pax Christi,

Jason
 
ClayPots47 said:
👍 I haven’t seen this in a longgggg time. Ahhh, the old days of USENET and IRC chat-rooms, back around the turn of the century. Nice to see that web site is still around, a classic!

Who wants a popcorn refill? 🍿
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Popcorn and pepsi over here for this Little of One please. :extrahappy:
 
raymond_king said:
it would seem that hahn is very distorted in his interpretation of scripture? He says the the forth cup has to deal with the passover meal. what it really means is that Jesus had done what the Father had set him to do. Hahn has more to deal with the promotion of his own name but Not TheName. Scott Hahn should not be trusted to represent the Name. Ray
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Hey, with that statement we could say the same thing about you. "it would seem that Ray is very distorted in his interpretation of scripture? He says that the forth cup ‘really means is that Jesus had done what the Father had set him to do.’ when it has to deal with the passover meal. Ray has more to deal with the promotion of his own name but Not TheName. Ray should not be trusted to represent the Name. David
 
raymond_king said:
well, after putting my views forword, and getting such a reaction. I spent a few hours listening to Scotts tape “The Supper of The Lamb”: His premise seems to be : The words that were meant by “it is finished” refers to the completion of the ‘passover meal’. He takes of his teacher in the seminary who asked this question given the basis that the act of redemption has not been completed. Therefore, we do not understand Jesus words " it is finished". For these proofs he refers to the old testament , that the hysop branch was raised to the lipts of Christ giving Him The Sour wine. This in Scotts words was the culmination of the great Hillel that during the last supper was not completed. He notes John 19 as a refer 26-30. this where i believe Scott was mislead. Her wants to establish his own ideas rather then the true exploration of scripture. For as states at the begginng of the tape " indeed christ did die for our sin and died to remove our quilt, but the death of Christ is often reduced to that. Much to the neglect of some other glorious consequenses of Christs atoning death.this is what we would like to focus on today".
My rebuttal: What jesus referred to is not the 4th cup of Scoots premise but to the fulfillment of the scriptures . In john 17 we hear stated “after he had spoken these words, jesus looked up to heaven and he said: 'Father, the hour has come! Give glory to your son that your son may give glory to you,inasmuch as you have given him glory over all mankind, that he may give eternal life on those you gave him. I have given you glory on earth by finishing the work you have gave me to do…
Enter also the vinegar on the hyssop branch. This is another fulfillment
of scripture from psalm 69:21-22. " in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink”.

So my point is this: Scott was mislead by his original instructor to think that the “it is finished” refered to the passover meal or seder. Rather to the completion of the work that the Father sent Him to do. His passion and death upon which He never gave up the Life. Noone was going to take it from him. Psalm 22 is a statement that refers to this .
it was not his physical life, which they indeed took away, it was the life he lived with the Father.
One of the good points i took away fro the take of the 4th cup was this: That jesua took the vow of the nazarene. he said he would not drink of the cup again until he drank it with us in the kingdom. This aspect Scott points out clearly. That the 4th cup is the cup of ‘consummation’. I will ponder on this. I think it is worth more than consideration! Raymond King raymondking08@gmail.com
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So, Hahn realized that his Protestant pastor was wrong concerning “it is finished”, and that the Catholic position is correct - another milestone in Hahn’s conversion to Catholicism.

I’m guessing you realize you may have been too quick to judge Hahn’s exegesis? :yup:
 
Randy_Carson said:
So, Hahn realized that his Protestant pastor was wrong concerning “it is finished”, and that the Catholic position is correct - another milestone in Hahn’s conversion to Catholicism.

I’m guessing you realize you may have been too quick to judge Hahn’s exegesis? :yup:
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This from your link is interesting, as Hahn came to his conclusion without knowing the Catholic position, but found the Catholic position was identical to his own conclusion.
Hahn stated:
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It did not occur to me at the time that this is the teaching of the Catholic Church on Christ’s sacrifice in the Eucharist. I was still anti-Catholic in my theological outlook as an Evangelical Protestant, though I must confess I had never thoroughly read a single Catholic work explaining or defending the Church’s teaching. Besides, I had never attended Mass. On the other hand, some of my parishioners and students were ex-Catholics, and a few of them began warning me about certain “Romish” tendencies they detected in me. I assured them I was only following Scripture.
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Perhaps the OP misunderstood Hahn’s exegesis? Or he disagrees with it (which then would be disagreeing with Catholic teaching)?

Anywho, after checking the Flame Warriors site posted by jwinch2, I think we may be dealing with this one, since the OP gave his credentials from the get-go (“oh, yes i do have credentials, Iisten to the Voice of God. HE teaches me what is false and what is True. Judgment is given to me to discern. Ray”)

If I eat any more 🍿 ,I think I will explode. I think I need some :coffee:
Anybody want a cup? Sugar? Cream?

Jerome81 and Randy, thanks for some serious replies.
 
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