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Like
Guest
It wasn’t that I didn’t believe you, (after all that I’ve heard of said Cardinal) just that I would have liked to show someone else.
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Melo
Guest
I love Scott Hahn! He has several different Bible Study classes at www.salvationhistory.com. I HIGHLY recommend them!
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Stratiotes
Guest
Dr. Hahn’s books are part of what drew me to the catholic faith - we have had a very similar background, I was a Presbyterian elder for many years and rather anti-Catholic for quite some time. Scott answered all the concerns I had with scripture - especially the tape series, “The Bible Alone?” I agree with him that the key assertion of the reformation is Sola Scriptura and responding to that alone makes the entire Protestant position untenable. It should be our main focus when talking to protestant friends about the faith.
I do consider myself very traditionalist. But I too have heard comments from others questioning his orthodoxy. Most of the time it has been questions about his views on Revelation but they seem in line with other teachers I’ve read so I don’t really understand totally what the problem is.
I do consider myself very traditionalist. But I too have heard comments from others questioning his orthodoxy. Most of the time it has been questions about his views on Revelation but they seem in line with other teachers I’ve read so I don’t really understand totally what the problem is.
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Cat
Guest
For those who are having trouble getting Scott Hahn as a speaker–there may be more to it.
I’ve heard Scott Hahn speak several times. He always makes arrangements to LEAVE immediately after he is finished speaking so that he can get back home to his wife and children. He doesn’t hang around.
He specifically TOLD us this last year when he was in our city. He didn’t apologize for leaving, he just said that he feels an obligation to be home more than on the road.
This may have irritated certain people in your diocese–obviously, it’s going to make arranging the travel a little more difficult and possibly more expensive. Also, it means that he is not available for private dinners, conversation, etc. with the LOC after a speaking engagement. He is OUT THE DOOR.
Just a thought, and it may not apply to your diocese, but worth remembering.
I suggest that you get his CDs and have “Scott Hahn party” in your home, and invite your friends. You have every right to have a party, and you have every right to offer “entertainment” at your party; this doesn’t have to be approved by your diocese. I have the feeling that the party could become a weekly thing and grow large enough that you’ll have to rent out the local party hall! But if your diocese is as bad as you say (clown masses, etc.), perhaps that would be a good thing!
I’ve heard Scott Hahn speak several times. He always makes arrangements to LEAVE immediately after he is finished speaking so that he can get back home to his wife and children. He doesn’t hang around.
He specifically TOLD us this last year when he was in our city. He didn’t apologize for leaving, he just said that he feels an obligation to be home more than on the road.
This may have irritated certain people in your diocese–obviously, it’s going to make arranging the travel a little more difficult and possibly more expensive. Also, it means that he is not available for private dinners, conversation, etc. with the LOC after a speaking engagement. He is OUT THE DOOR.
Just a thought, and it may not apply to your diocese, but worth remembering.
I suggest that you get his CDs and have “Scott Hahn party” in your home, and invite your friends. You have every right to have a party, and you have every right to offer “entertainment” at your party; this doesn’t have to be approved by your diocese. I have the feeling that the party could become a weekly thing and grow large enough that you’ll have to rent out the local party hall! But if your diocese is as bad as you say (clown masses, etc.), perhaps that would be a good thing!
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TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
The time I heard Scott and Kimberly Hahn, the presentations were
for the whole day. They were both available between the talks,
except during the lunch break. The next day we attended mass in
the same parish and both were at the same mass. So maybe the
trick is to invite them during the summer and to invite both to give
presentations!!! Kimberly studied for the ministry and it is she who
saw the wisdom of the Catholic Church in its teaching on birth
control which led to where they are now. (She was studying to be
a protestant minister in the same seminary as Scott)
for the whole day. They were both available between the talks,
except during the lunch break. The next day we attended mass in
the same parish and both were at the same mass. So maybe the
trick is to invite them during the summer and to invite both to give
presentations!!! Kimberly studied for the ministry and it is she who
saw the wisdom of the Catholic Church in its teaching on birth
control which led to where they are now. (She was studying to be
a protestant minister in the same seminary as Scott)
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CB_Catholic
Guest
I was told a number of years ago by a parish leader that I would never see the day in our parish where people would be interested in Scott Hahn. (I guess because the parish leaders weren’t).
Well,–we got a new parish library and guess what is on the shelves–Scott Hahn’s books and tapes. Along with Fr Groschel, Steve Ray, Karl Keating, etc. And guess who gets to help pick some of the next batch of books we order
. I’m in charge of the apologetics section.
He apparently has become something of a grass roots movement in our parish. People are asking for his stuff, and also for the others. We are happy to oblige.
Well,–we got a new parish library and guess what is on the shelves–Scott Hahn’s books and tapes. Along with Fr Groschel, Steve Ray, Karl Keating, etc. And guess who gets to help pick some of the next batch of books we order
. I’m in charge of the apologetics section.He apparently has become something of a grass roots movement in our parish. People are asking for his stuff, and also for the others. We are happy to oblige.
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OutinChgoburbs
Guest
If you don’t have access through a university portal, it’s going to cost you money to read it, but:
http://www.proquest.com/
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tcraig
Guest
The biggest complaints I have heard against Scott Hahn from traditionalists is that (1) he’s a charismatic and (2) he’s a “protestant” Catholic.
I saw a video on YouTube where Scott Hahn was speaking to a charismatic group, and he did identify himself a one. However, I have found that simply being identified as a charismatic doesn’t necessarily mean that one is in support of unorthodox/abusive liturgies or the strange behaviors that are frequently associated (often rightly) with charismatic services. To most conservative Catholics, though, (not just traditionalists) the typical charismatic mass is about as welcome as a case of smallpox.
As to claims that he’s a protestant Catholic, I think this primarily ties in with the fact that he’s not a known supporter of the TLM. I’ve seen and heard many trads identify “NO Catholics” as protestant Catholics - presumably because they aren’t out protesting a so-called “protestantized” NO Mass. Additionally, many seem to identify him with protestant leaders/speaker who make money through their writing and speaking engagements.
I saw a video on YouTube where Scott Hahn was speaking to a charismatic group, and he did identify himself a one. However, I have found that simply being identified as a charismatic doesn’t necessarily mean that one is in support of unorthodox/abusive liturgies or the strange behaviors that are frequently associated (often rightly) with charismatic services. To most conservative Catholics, though, (not just traditionalists) the typical charismatic mass is about as welcome as a case of smallpox.
As to claims that he’s a protestant Catholic, I think this primarily ties in with the fact that he’s not a known supporter of the TLM. I’ve seen and heard many trads identify “NO Catholics” as protestant Catholics - presumably because they aren’t out protesting a so-called “protestantized” NO Mass. Additionally, many seem to identify him with protestant leaders/speaker who make money through their writing and speaking engagements.
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latinmass
Guest
Mr. Hahn is educated but not wisd, quite knowledgeable but lacks an understanding of pre-Vatican 2 teachings and like many modern theologians places too much emphasis on post Vatican 2 teachings, and does not look at the teachings of the whole two thousand years of doctrine. Mr. Hahn being a post Vatican 2 Protestant convert lacks the insight on the fullnes of all the Churchs teachings. He has fallen into the trap that many people have that make their living off the Church do, in that they follow the politically correct stance on issues that Rome has become pc on, and won’t stand up for the truth i.e. false ecumemism, altar girls, not speaking to the declines of Vatican 2 teachings or misteachings, and the sacredness of the TLM. We must all believe in the infallable doctrines taught by the Church, but we must question false teachers and false teachings just as scripture foretold. False teachings are teachings of men, and there have been many coming out of the Church in the last forty years. Mr. Hahn sticks his head in the stand as so many do on these issues. ps. the only dialogue we should be having with any other faiths is to bring them the truth of the Church, not a social get together as seen so often today. We are a holy people, whoever is not with us is against us. Read your whole bible, look at all the councils, and all the encyclicals.
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TexCatholic4JMJ
Guest
Latinmass,
From what I have seen, heard and read about Scott Hahn, I don’t
agree that he doesn’t know what the church taught “pre-vatican II.”
What information do you have to make such statements?
From what I have seen, heard and read about Scott Hahn, I don’t
agree that he doesn’t know what the church taught “pre-vatican II.”
What information do you have to make such statements?
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bankerdavid
Guest
I have never heard this from him!
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latinmass
Guest
How can one understand preV2 teachings and not question the false ecumenism that are rampant today?, charismatic movement?, altar girls?
Where is his book on decline of confession? Catholics leaving Church? Decline in belief of Presence? Fewer priests? He mixes truth with modernism, very dangerous, because people take it all in as truth. A wolf in sheeps clothing? Bringing people to this faith with errors?
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DustinsDad
Guest
I would not disagree with you assessment here. Especially the assessement of being a post VII protestant convert to the faith post Vatican II, and the implications thereof. As such, Hahn comes from the same “perpsective” of many of the popular conservative Catholic apologists today. They are probably very reluctant to question authority in any way whatsoever - even in prudential practical matters - since they have converted from Protestantism which is based on the all-out rejection of authority in the first place.
That is one of the reasons why, I think, when you read their works and hear their tapes, etc. you will often here post-VII documents cited along with Scripture verses and* very* early Christian writings, but less commonly do you hear of what went on in between say 500 AD and 1960 AD - not too many quotes from Trent, Florence, etc. in their lectures. And you won’t often hear a tape series or lecture on authentic ecumenism, the social reign of Christ the King, the true nature of religous liberty, or EENS, etc. Some things are just not on the agenda as they are somewhat in a confused state right now with the hierarchy not really speaking clearly to them. As such, these aplogists won’t either - it’s just not in their “makeup”.
And you are correct, in that professional Catholic apologists would put the muzzle on themselves the minute they would critique anything relating to VII. Even acknowledging the troubling ambiguous nature of the documents is tatamount to a blacklisting (seems to me anyway) - and so they must “look the other way” on some issues in order to keep doing what they are doing.
That being said, I appreciate their zeal and their sincerety and do find their material on the basic apologetics very helpful in defending against the usual attacks on the Catholic faith.
And call me naive, but I think they are a step away from embracing traditional issues as well, but need the assurance of the hierarchy (especially the pope) to proceed. The more Pope Benedict XVI continues the move to more traditional clarity in things like the recent Motu Proprio, the more these convert apologists will follow.
For instance - I hardly noticed it before “discovering” tradition, but were some subtle (and some not so subtle) attacks on traditionalists in some of their work. Kind of a discounting the “traditionalist” arguments without really addressing them in detail. I’m seeing less of this since the recent MP - I think things like this (along with the wonderful mass and awesome homily on EWTN that followed) will produce many good things and a softening of the hostility between the “conservative” and “traditional” camps in the future.
Let’s hope and pray we see such moves from the Holy Father in areas such as ecumenism, religious liberty, etc. and well as a continued strenghtening of the traditional liturgy.
I truly believe that there are two stong forces within the Church laity and both love the Church and the Lord dearly - the “conservative” catholic and the “traditional” catholic - when we finally get on the same page…look out! And I think, in the end, the one to bring this about is the pope. And he’s got alot of folks (and supernatural forces) fighting him on this.
Peace in Christ,
DustinsDad
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PatienceAndLove
Guest
He addresses these issues in his books- Swear to God (the power of the Sacraments), Lamb’s Supper (the reality of the Mass with great stress on the real presence), Lord Have Mercy (confession), Reason to Believe (defending and explain the faith).
You have to READ the books. He doesn’t lay out a bullet list, he makes you read, pray and think.
As for fewer priests, how is he going to solve it? He brings attention to it, discusses priests who defy the Church magisterium, etc…
How does he do this? Have you ever actually read his works or heard him speak? Or are you basing this off of YouTube videos? Pick up a copy of the CD “Body and Blood of Christ”, read the books I mentioned above, and then I will debate with you.
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SemperFidelis
Guest
I know I’ll catch some flak for this because several people dislike Bob Sungenis, but you can’t argue that Scott Hahn didn’t take this course:
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/triple1.htm
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/field1.htm
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/field2-1.htm
catholicintl.com/catholicissues/sungenis-michael1.htm
Here is something from another website regarding Scott Hahn’s feminist theology of the Holy Ghost:
newoxfordreview.org/note.jsp?did=0105-notes-hahn
It also goes into Scott Hahn’s allegedly strange views regarding Original Sin.
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DustinsDad
Guest
My “take” on the situation is this…Hahn (and other popular protestant convert apologists) would be more apt to take these tradional (and I’d say absoultely solid and convincing) critiques to heart if they were coming from anyone other than traditionalists and especially if they were coming from the hierarchy of the Church.
In the preceding decades (i.e., in the era in which they entered the Church), the modus operendi seems to have been to discount anything coming from traditionalists as unworthy of serious response or consideration. In a sense, they were taking their cue from folks in the hierarchy that either didn’t pay any attention to traditionalists or demonized them as schismatics or heretics.
And I sense (hope and pray) that this may be changing. I think the pope’s recent Motu Proprio may be the first step in alot of conservative catholic minds that maybe - just maybe - these traditionalists aren’t quite the evil boogeymen as they’ve been lead to believe.
Gotta keep praying!
DustinsDad
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CollegeKid
Guest
Latinmass and Dustinsdad,
Thank you for weighing in on the reasons for considering suspect some of what Scott Hahn has said or published. Dustinsdad especially, thank you for offering your suggestions in a calm and reasoned manner. I can see the validity in saying that the atmosphere of the Church when Hahn entered it might have influenced his decisions on not wanting to appear overly “traditionalist” added to the fact that many in the hierarchy don’t openly avow positions on Church teaching that would appear more in keeping with the “pre-Vatican II spirit.” I myself, if I were in Hahn’s position, would probably also be very reticent about appearing to contradict the Pope or members of the Roman Curia, seeing as they are our appointed shepherds.
Latinmass, I think its kind of an unjustified leap of logic to conclude that Hahn is a “modernist.” It might be possible to fault him for not speaking out against certain liturgical innovations that we do not like, such as altar girls (myself included on that one), or not clarifying EENS as much as we think it needs clarification, but failure to explain these things to the degree we would like does not mean he accepts them, in fact, I would supsect the opposite. Also, as for your statement that “whoever is not with us is against us”-I respectfully disagree. The Church has her enemies, without a doubt, but with one categorical statement you’re unecessarily making an enemy out of every person who is not Catholic-even those in invincible ignorance.
Thank you for weighing in on the reasons for considering suspect some of what Scott Hahn has said or published. Dustinsdad especially, thank you for offering your suggestions in a calm and reasoned manner. I can see the validity in saying that the atmosphere of the Church when Hahn entered it might have influenced his decisions on not wanting to appear overly “traditionalist” added to the fact that many in the hierarchy don’t openly avow positions on Church teaching that would appear more in keeping with the “pre-Vatican II spirit.” I myself, if I were in Hahn’s position, would probably also be very reticent about appearing to contradict the Pope or members of the Roman Curia, seeing as they are our appointed shepherds.
Latinmass, I think its kind of an unjustified leap of logic to conclude that Hahn is a “modernist.” It might be possible to fault him for not speaking out against certain liturgical innovations that we do not like, such as altar girls (myself included on that one), or not clarifying EENS as much as we think it needs clarification, but failure to explain these things to the degree we would like does not mean he accepts them, in fact, I would supsect the opposite. Also, as for your statement that “whoever is not with us is against us”-I respectfully disagree. The Church has her enemies, without a doubt, but with one categorical statement you’re unecessarily making an enemy out of every person who is not Catholic-even those in invincible ignorance.
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trimont
Guest
When I was working at my parish several years ago, I inquired about having Scott Hahn come when the topic of who to have for our parish mission came up. I knew that there would be standing room only when word traveled around the area. I was shot down - the consensus was to have another of the “usual” guys… you know - the ones where you might get 75 people the first night and then the attendance drops dramatically on consecutive nights?
Also Dr. Hahn does have quite a few restrictions and conditions on his travel arrangements and is quite expensive. (Of course, personally, I think he is well worth it). I love his talk on The Fourth Cup!
Also Dr. Hahn does have quite a few restrictions and conditions on his travel arrangements and is quite expensive. (Of course, personally, I think he is well worth it). I love his talk on The Fourth Cup!
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CollegeKid
Guest
Also, Latinmass, please understand, for what its worth, that I’m saying these things as someone who tends to be traditional-minded on matters of Church teaching, and I attend the Traditional Latin Mass every Sunday, and sometimes on weekdays.
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rien
Guest
I think part of the suspicion by some traditionalists is Scott’s close association with Franciscan University. Among the most orthodox catholic universities in the US. However, it is more a charismatic Catholic university. I don’t believe there is a traditionmalist presence there. Not out of anything the university does, its just that its become a great magnet for charismatic and non-traditional orthodox Catholic students.
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