Scott Hahn

[rien]

The prepnderance of self-identified “traditionalist” distaste for Doctor Hahn that I have seen seems to be general annoyance and distaste for the fact that he did not “trad up” and has found the ordinary form to be an acceptable starting or ending point in discussions about the Mass. Additionally his association with FSU and membership in Opus Dei seems to arise the ire or suspiscion of some.

More of a “guilt by association”/“he never became a card-carrying traditionalist” sort of resentment among most. Still one other guy I talked to fancies himself a devotee of St. Tomas Aquinas and broadly rejects listening to anything that does not eminate from a Thomist. You’ll have that I guess.

The fact that ultra-traditionalists and ultra modern liberals have distaste for him, may be a good sign he is a radical orthodox catholic!

Frankly, listening to Dr. Hahns stuff, I find it helpful and illuminating in my appreciation of the Eucharist - and I attend Byzantine Divine Liturgy.

Very good points.

IMO, traditionalists in some cases are more focused on the “law” or rubrics than “faith working in love” that Paul preaches.

FSU gets lots of flack - yet it has generated many, many vocations. I believe they recently surpassed Notre Dame in terms of numbers of theology students.

FSU’s Eucharistic devotions are phenomenal. One of their graduates, Janis Clarke, sang for JP2 in 2002 at the World Youth Day. She has devoted much of her singing career to promoting Eucharistic devotion.

Janis had a trial of critical proportions. A singer promoting Catholcicsm, she lost her voice in 2005. Medical test after medical test could not find an answer. She was about to lose her music ministry. Ironically this happened just after she sang for a pro-life event in Boulder Co. FSU students and professors are at the forefront of this effort too.

Janis is a consecrated virgin. She spent hours in Eucharistic Devotion after this. She felt called still to raise her voice for the unborn.

She attended a Catholic healing Mass in December 2005. After that her bishop prayed over her. On 12/8 her voice returned - Feast of The Immaculate Conception. She has since given testimonies.

Since then she has gone on to produce CDs like “Prayers and Songs for Life”. It features songs she composed for children on Eucahristic and Marian themes.

Janis has a strong devotion to the Eucharist and the Blessed Mother.

She is also charismatic and an FSU graduate - who is heeding the call, as too few do, of Jesus to go out and preach the Gospel to the world.

 

[kidderdoc]

She is also charismatic and an FSU graduate - who is heeding the call, as too few do, of Jesus to go out and preach the Gospel to the world.

Nice story! I wish I could warm up to charismatics…(don’t y’all pounce on me now!) …just seems like some gnostic club that you have to have some code word to get into…but nice story anyway!!!

 

[rien]

Nice story! I wish I could warm up to charismatics…(don’t y’all pounce on me now!) …just seems like some gnostic club that you have to have some code word to get into…but nice story anyway!!!

Ironically, I know some who consider traditionlaists a “Gnostic club”. They supposdly have the “true faith”.

I don’t think any human can have the “true faith”. Its beyond us.

But the fruits and witness - imagine if you had a traditionalist charismasitic. The witness!!

I don’t deny charismatice Catholics, some, can go astray. But so can some traditonalists.

You have to look at their fruits. Janis is bringing folks - especially young folks - to Christ and the Church.

I wait for the day when there is a traditoanlsit/charismatic on fire. Now that will be something to see.

 

[kidderdoc]

Ironically, I know some who consider traditionlaists a “Gnostic club”. They supposdly have the “true faith”.

Nope…not referring to the truth of the matter, but rather the secrecy … as if these “gifts” put them in a place above the rest of us schmucks…is that a bad word I wonder?? I think I am way too self-conscious to be a charismatic but I like to watch them, I have lots of charismatic friends…and I have to admit, that the aim in life is to lose our tendency towards “self” and place it entirely onto God…so hopefully one day I won’t be self- conscious. I guess it is just out of my comfort zone. Now I did have a cure from an advanced cancer; one day there, next day gone but I always am reminded of what St. John of the Cross says about these things…run, run, run and don’t dwell on it (paraphrase)…so I only look at it as a reprieve. I guess I am not into private revelations or healings at all…I am kind of a boring Catholic now that I read this, LOL.

 

[rien]

Nope…not referring to the truth of the matter, but rather the secrecy … as if these “gifts” put them in a place above the rest of us schmucks…is that a bad word I wonder?? I think I am way too self-conscious to be a charismatic but I like to watch them, I have lots of charismatic friends…and I have to admit, that the aim in life is to lose our tendency towards “self” and place it entirely onto God…so hopefully one day I won’t be self- conscious. I guess it is just out of my comfort zone. Now I did have a cure from an advanced cancer; one day there, next day gone but I always am reminded of what St. John of the Cross says about these things…run, run, run and don’t dwell on it (paraphrase)…so I only look at it as a reprieve. I guess I am not into private revelations or healings at all…I am kind of a boring Catholic now that I read this, LOL.

God bless you on your health. My brother had prostate cancer and I know what he went through. I had detached retinaes in each eye a decade ago and I know the “loneliness” and anger. Mostly the anger. I’d walk down a street and was mad at everyone else who casually walked by and had not idea how precious their sight is. In your case, their lives.

If you read the Saints you realize many were charismatic. It is nothing to fear - the Catholic church does not teach the gifts ended with the death of the last Apostle.

As fundamentalise, but not evangelicals, do. Key difference many Catholics don’t see.

Healing is an integral part of Catholcism from day one. Healing comes through the Spirit. In a broad sense all the healings of the past 2000 years are indeed charismatic. Through the Spirit.

IMO, traditioanlists and charismatics need to embrace their One faith and Lord. And each other.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

But the fruits and witness - imagine if you had a traditionalist charismasitic. The witness!!

In fact we do. I know some folks with a predilection for traditional (Eucharistic) worship (TLM) and are enthusiastic attendees of charismatic prayergroups.

I know the neat & tidy stereotypes (Traditionalists wake up to an alarm clock set to the Gregorian chant radio station/Charismatics wake up talking in tongues and listen to Evangelical pop…) are more convienant. Its a little harder to define than that at times.

 

[rien]

In fact we do. I know some folks with a predilection for traditional (Eucharistic) worship (TLM) and are enthusiastic attendees of charismatic prayergroups.

I know the neat & tidy stereotypes (Traditionalists wake up to an alarm clock set to the Gregorian chant radio station/Charismatics wake up talking in tongues and listen to Evangelical pop…) are more convienant. Its a little harder to define than that at times.

Oh yeah. The eucharist adoration at FSU is proof.

Traditionalists have lots to offer but they sometimes forget the witness of the Soirit these past 2000 years IMO.

Padre Pio’s stigmata were gifts of the Spirit.

 

[CloisterM]

Scott Hahn’s books are excellent, and very easy to read and understand. He will help many Catholics to understand their Faith. God Bless him and the good work he is trying to do educating people to understand the Catholic Faith…

 

[latinmass]

God bless you on your health. My brother had prostate cancer and I know what he went through. I had detached retinaes in each eye a decade ago and I know the “loneliness” and anger. Mostly the anger. I’d walk down a street and was mad at everyone else who casually walked by and had not idea how precious their sight is. In your case, their lives.

If you read the Saints you realize many were charismatic. It is nothing to fear - the Catholic church does not teach the gifts ended with the death of the last Apostle.

As fundamentalise, but not evangelicals, do. Key difference many Catholics don’t see.

Healing is an integral part of Catholcism from day one. Healing comes through the Spirit. In a broad sense all the healings of the past 2000 years are indeed charismatic. Through the Spirit.

IMO, traditioanlists and charismatics need to embrace their One faith and Lord. And each other.

There are healings, there is stigmata today, but the gift of healings as the apostles had was only with them to start the Church. As you know, nobody in the Church today has the gifts that Sts. Peter and Paul did.

 

[hainleys]

Christ founded our Church, the pillar and bulwark of Truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, the Life.

Scott Hahn came to the Catholic Church because he was seeking the Truth, not because he WANTED to be Catholic. If anything, he thought the Truth would lead him away-- even hoped it would lead him away. He initially studied the Church–sure the errors would leap out at him–to gain ammunition to lure others away. But he is an honest man who wants to love and serve God in the way GOD wants, and he discovered the Catholic Church is that path that Christ established. He teaches and supports that Truth with integrity.

I was a pretty lukewarm Catholic several years back. I discovered Scott Hahn, and now my faith is vibrant and alive. It is AMAZING to find how many people owe their conversion and/or renewed Catholic conviction to the Spirit working through Dr. Hahn. He is not the only theologian I read–there are many others–but he planted the seed. I thank him for his passion, compassion, enthusiasm, and perserverance.

Scott is letting himself be used by God to bring people into the Church and to restore those who have fallen away, and he is giving them a strong foundation. I speak from personal experience. His energetic and fearless witness has helped to develop in me a faith worth living for, and though I hope to never be put to the test, worth dying for.

In answer to the original post: A good tree bears good fruit. Scott has borne a bumper crop.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Christ founded our Church, the pillar and bulwark of Truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, the Life.

Scott Hahn came to the Catholic Church because he was seeking the Truth, not because he WANTED to be Catholic. If anything, he thought the Truth would lead him away-- even hoped it would lead him away. He initially studied the Church–sure the errors would leap out at him–to gain ammunition to lure others away. But he is an honest man who wants to love and serve God in the way GOD wants, and he discovered the Catholic Church is that path that Christ established. He teaches and supports that Truth with integrity.

I was a pretty lukewarm Catholic several years back. I discovered Scott Hahn, and now my faith is vibrant and alive. It is AMAZING to find how many people owe their conversion and/or renewed Catholic conviction to the Spirit working through Dr. Hahn. He is not the only theologian I read–there are many others–but he planted the seed. I thank him for his passion, compassion, enthusiasm, and perserverance.

Scott is letting himself be used by God to bring people into the Church and to restore those who have fallen away, and he is giving them a strong foundation. I speak from personal experience. His energetic and fearless witness has helped to develop in me a faith worth living for, and though I hope to never be put to the test, worth dying for.

In answer to the original post: A good tree bears good fruit. Scott has borne a bumper crop.

 

[qui_est_ce]

FSU gets lots of flack - yet it has generated many, many vocations. I believe they recently surpassed Notre Dame in terms of numbers of theology students.

FSU’s Eucharistic devotions are phenomenal. One of their graduates, Janis Clarke, sang for JP2 in 2002 at the World Youth Day. She has devoted much of her singing career to promoting Eucharistic devotion.

Please, there is NO comparison between FSU and Notre Dame. Notre Dame’s day is over. They are not even Catholic anymore. Every year at Valentine’s day the have the same old V-----a play and the “coming out” door. I wonder how many still do Eucharistic Adoration at ND, accounting for the difference in numbers. Does ND even promote E.A.?

 

[SemperFidelis]

Please, there is NO comparison between FSU and Notre Dame. Notre Dame’s day is over. They are not even Catholic anymore. Every year at Valentine’s day the have the same old V-----a play and the “coming out” door. I wonder how many still do Eucharistic Adoration at ND, accounting for the difference in numbers. Does ND even promote E.A.?

I have heard though that Notre Dame is somewhat turning around. I don’t think it’s as bad as some places, and I believe the TLM there has quite a turnout.

 

[rien]

There are healings, there is stigmata today, but the gift of healings as the apostles had was only with them to start the Church. As you know, nobody in the Church today has the gifts that Sts. Peter and Paul did.

Where does Scripture or tradition teach that? As far as I know they don’t. What you are saying is what fundamentalists (ie. Baptists), as opposed to Catholics and pentecostals teach/believe on this.

 

[rien]

Christ founded our Church, the pillar and bulwark of Truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, the Life.

Scott Hahn came to the Catholic Church because he was seeking the Truth, not because he WANTED to be Catholic. If anything, he thought the Truth would lead him away-- even hoped it would lead him away. He initially studied the Church–sure the errors would leap out at him–to gain ammunition to lure others away. But he is an honest man who wants to love and serve God in the way GOD wants, and he discovered the Catholic Church is that path that Christ established. He teaches and supports that Truth with integrity.

I was a pretty lukewarm Catholic several years back. I discovered Scott Hahn, and now my faith is vibrant and alive. It is AMAZING to find how many people owe their conversion and/or renewed Catholic conviction to the Spirit working through Dr. Hahn. He is not the only theologian I read–there are many others–but he planted the seed. I thank him for his passion, compassion, enthusiasm, and perserverance.

Scott is letting himself be used by God to bring people into the Church and to restore those who have fallen away, and he is giving them a strong foundation. I speak from personal experience. His energetic and fearless witness has helped to develop in me a faith worth living for, and though I hope to never be put to the test, worth dying for.

In answer to the original post: A good tree bears good fruit. Scott has borne a bumper crop.

I absolutely agree!!!

 

[rien]

Please, there is NO comparison between FSU and Notre Dame. Notre Dame’s day is over. They are not even Catholic anymore. Every year at Valentine’s day the have the same old V-----a play and the “coming out” door. I wonder how many still do Eucharistic Adoration at ND, accounting for the difference in numbers. Does ND even promote E.A.?

I wasn’t comparing FSU and ND on fidelity. Only one of the two requires professors to take JP 2’s oath. Guess which one?

I know there is very strong EA at FSU. Maybe why so many vocations from FSU in recent years? Not just vocations - ministires. FOCUS grew out of FSU.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I wasn’t comparing FSU and ND on fidelity. Only one of the two requires professors to take JP 2’s oath. Guess which one?

I know there is very strong EA at FSU. Maybe why so many vocations from FSU in recent years? Not just vocations - ministires. FOCUS grew out of FSU.

It’s a shame when an outstanding University like Notre Dame gives up its Catholic identity to the false doctrine of inclusiveness. I believe this is why so many Catholics have fallen away, and why fewer have responded to the calling to religious life since the early '70’s. I am not a Traditionalist, but I did receive my Sacraments of Initiation pre-Vatican II, and the mass of my youth was Tridentine Latin.

Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Steve Ray, Rosalind Moss, et al EWTN, St. Joseph Communications, etc. have revived the Catholic Church from it’s fall into nothing different from any other religion out there into a new era, as Pope JP II desired, The New Evangelization. Unfortunately this Pope has been grossly misinterpreted. Traditional Catholics are threatened by all these new converts, and see them a “protestanizing” the Church. This is simply not true.

What is in fact happening, is Protestants are beginning to adopt tradionally Catholic Traditions: Advent, Lent, Studying the ECF. For a Traditional Catholic to say NO mass is protestant, is looking at it backwards.

We should welcome all who seek the fullness of truth of the Holy Catholic Church. Each has his gift.

*14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. *
1 Cor 12:14-10

I understand latinmass’s concerns with focus, but have faith in Jesus, pray to Him, He will lead us in the right paths. Do not try to move the hand of God, but rather, be moved by it.

 

[rien]

It’s a shame when an outstanding University like Notre Dame gives up its Catholic identity to the false doctrine of inclusiveness. I believe this is why so many Catholics have fallen away, and why fewer have responded to the calling to religious life since the early '70’s. I am not a Traditionalist, but I did receive my Sacraments of Initiation pre-Vatican II, and the mass of my youth was Tridentine Latin.

Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Steve Ray, Rosalind Moss, et al EWTN, St. Joseph Communications, etc. have revived the Catholic Church from it’s fall into nothing different from any other religion out there into a new era, as Pope JP II desired, The New Evangelization. Unfortunately this Pope has been grossly misinterpreted. Traditional Catholics are threatened by all these new converts, and see them a “protestanizing” the Church. This is simply not true.

What is in fact happening, is Protestants are beginning to adopt tradionally Catholic Traditions: Advent, Lent, Studying the ECF. For a Traditional Catholic to say NO mass is protestant, is looking at it backwards.

We should welcome all who seek the fullness of truth of the Holy Catholic Church. Each has his gift.

*14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, “Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,” it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. *
1 Cor 12:14-10

I understand latinmass’s concerns with focus, but have faith in Jesus, pray to Him, He will lead us in the right paths. Do not try to move the hand of God, but rather, be moved by it.

Yes. I see the thing missing from many, can I say most, traditionalists, is the evangelical spirit. The preaching the Good News. No wonder to me the indult parishes have mostly stagnated.

No converts come in. Yet the evangelical types bring in souls, create minsitries. And I am supposed to not accept them because they may prfer a reverant NO? This is legalism IMO as Paul warns against again and again in Scripture.

 

[SemperFidelis]

No wonder to me the indult parishes have mostly stagnated.

I do not at all believe this to be the case. Look at how the TLM is growing. The FSSP, ICRSS, SSJC, CRNJ etc. are growing at enormous rates, and so are the old indult parishes. More and more Priestly societies are being formed all the time that offer only the 62’ Missal. It’s also interesting to note the SSPX is growing by leaps and bounds, in spite of the fact that most thought that Summorum Pontificum would lead to their downfall. Read all the good news coming from the news, blogs, etc. The TLM has “taken off” in Rome, and is doing likewise everywhere. I think the above quote is only what YOU want to believe.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I do not at all believe this to be the case. Look at how the TLM is growing. The FSSP, ICRSS, SSJC, CRNJ etc. are growing at enormous rates, and so are the old indult parishes. More and more Priestly societies are being formed all the time that offer only the 62’ Missal. It’s also interesting to note the SSPX is growing by leaps and bounds, in spite of the fact that most thought that Summorum Pontificum would lead to their downfall. Read all the good news coming from the news, blogs, etc. The TLM has “taken off” in Rome, and is doing likewise everywhere. I think the above quote is only what YOU want to believe.

When one is down to nothing, anything is a leap and a bound. When there is NO Tridentine Latin Mass, (like here in St. Louis a few years ago), and then one is added and a church dedicated to TLM (Tridentine Latin Mass), then that’s a 100% increase.

The Latin Mass never went away, it is the Tridentine Mass that is “extraordinary.” Most of the differences between NO and TLM are, the priest faces away from the congregation during the Eucharistic Prayer and Consecration. Also, the old rite had limited readings from the Bible: a one year vs three year cycle. The daily readings were the Sunday readings - EVERY DAY. Now that’s stagnant. The Bible is the Catholic Church’s word to the world. Why would we not want to read as much as we can?

Why would I want the priest to face away from me? Jesus was WITH his Apostles, he did not have his back to them.

We worship as a Community of believers at mass. I remember not being allowed to even look at other people in the TLM, much less utter a whisper in the aisle after mass. I think it’s wonderful that we have fellowship, and the sign of peace. Talking in front of the Blessed Sacrament is not a sin. There is a time and place for private worship and meditation (Eucharistic Adoration). Are we only allowed to talk prescribed words in front of the Blessed Sacrament?

I don’t know what “indult” means, but I do believe that it is the Sacredness, the Reverence with which we Catholics treat our Lord in the mass which draws non Catholics to the Catholic Church.