Scranton, Marywood refuse to host Catholic speaker (Michael Voris)

[jam070406]

I’ve watch maybe a dozen or so videos on youtube of his “vortex.” There may be a couple videos in which I may agree with some of what he says, but overall, I don’t like his tone at all. He’s often insulting to anyone who disagrees with his own politics (even when they have nothing to do with Church teaching), and he implies that somehow these political positions are implied by church teaching.

Maybe he’s done some other series that I don’t know about, but from watching his vortex videos, I can’t get over the constant tone of indignation, conspiracy, and antipathy. I know his videos made pretty much solely for politically far right Catholics, but I imagine that pretty much anyone else would only be driven away by his attitude. Even as a Catholic, I was quite displeased at much of what he said. I imagine a Protestant or non-believer would be as apoplectic as Voris is after watching most of his videos. That sort of seige mentality, that ‘we elect are content to have heaven to ourselves, and everyone else can and should go to the devil’ attitude just bothers me. Again, maybe there’s something else he did that showed a different side of him, but I haven’t seen it, so I can only judge from what I have seen.

Your opinions of him lack any merit. Never has he EVER said he was elect and everyone else be damned. Check out his One True Faith program. He defends Catholic teaching. Of course those that oppose Catholic teaching and rail against it are gonna be offended.

 

[jam070406]

To give some examples of outright objectionable material (the controversial list would be too long for me to want to put the time into it): he advocated dictatorship in one video; he regularly accuses bishops in good standing of being rebels or heretics he dismissed global warming out of hand as an obvious lie without a single scientific reason (disagree with it if you will, but his way of doing shows a profound disrespect for the many respectable scientists who disagree with him); he alludes to the medieval crusaders as paragons of what Christian men should emulate, saying nonsense about a crusader killing an infidel one second then rescuing an infant the next (though many crusaders slaughtered thousands of innocent Jews in Europe out of misguided furor even before they reached the Holy Land); And, all in all, his views often seem to border on conspiracy theories, about “operatives” working from inside the church to dismantle it. Again, division there is, but to call those one disagrees with “operatives” is a questionable tactic IMO. Just a few things.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see a trace of love in his videos, tough or otherwise.

Even Beck is pleasant to listen to compared to Voris in my opinion.

The man is not here to defend his positions, research or your accusations. Perhaps you could call, email or comment on his videos and engage him instead of making claims and slandering his character on a public forum.

 

[jam070406]

I take one look at this joke and remember what St. Francis once said:
“Preach the Gospel at all times, and if necessary, use words”

Do you believe St. Francis would slander and insult a man he never met on a public forum?

 

[ANNE_2]

To give some examples of outright objectionable material (the controversial list would be too long for me to want to put the time into it): he advocated dictatorship in one video; he regularly accuses bishops in good standing of being rebels or heretics he dismissed global warming out of hand as an obvious lie without a single scientific reason (disagree with it if you will, but his way of doing shows a profound disrespect for the many respectable scientists who disagree with him); he alludes to the medieval crusaders as paragons of what Christian men should emulate, saying nonsense about a crusader killing an infidel one second then rescuing an infant the next (though many crusaders slaughtered thousands of innocent Jews in Europe out of misguided furor even before they reached the Holy Land); And, all in all, his views often seem to border on conspiracy theories, about “operatives” working from inside the church to dismantle it. Again, division there is, but to call those one disagrees with “operatives” is a questionable tactic IMO. Just a few things.

Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t see a trace of love in his videos, tough or otherwise.

What video’s have you been watching?
Where are the links to prove your wild accusations ?

Here is one link to prove you absolutely wrong - remember your quote is: "…he dismissed global warming out of hand as an obvious lie without a single scientific reason. "
On this issue you are guilty of at least - rash judgment.

realcatholictv.com/cia/04GlobalWarming/
Note that in addition to the video, you can click on “Important Information & Documents” to the right of of video.
If that is not documentation, I don’t know what you expect…

Not related to Voris - - - -
Here’s a few links to info on Scientists who lied about their data to prove global warming, now called ‘climate change’ because of all the dishonesty.
canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/17187
assassinationscience.com/climategate/

The USCCB still has a “Social Justice Environmental Program” that still promotes Global Warming/Climate change. Although their Staff has tried to make it look religious, it has nothing to do with Church Doctrine.
Good thing the USCCB is not the Magisterium.

Not even the Pope is infallible in scientific, historical, political, philosphical, geographic, or any matters - - - other than Faith and Morals; and only when he asserts his official authority to the whole Church. (‘Catholicism for Dummies’ - with Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur)

 

[Sirach2]

Jam:

The man is not here to defend his positions, research or your accusations. Perhaps you could call, email or comment on his videos and engage him instead of making claims and slandering his character on a public forum.

Scripture teaches that it is an act of charity to warn the faithful when the wolf is approaching. When apostolates are unapproved and not in compliance with the diocese in which they operate, it is a moral duty to present those findings to innocent inquirers, especially when the ministry is publicly operating unofficially in the name of Catholicism.

The Archdiocese of Detroit has issued a form letter stating that none of the activites of RealCatholicTV and its affiliates are in compliance and the apostolate is unapproved at this time. This is hardly slander, for anyone may make the inquiry of them. They do not itemize those issues that caused the denial of approval.

However, we can find clues as to the reason from an excellent catholic site that does a lot of this homework for us, so that whenever we read material from irregular websites, we can be forewarned of the dangers. Here are the comments noted in the review of RCTV.

RealCatholicTV is particularly concerned with the inroads of secularism into the Church, and users should be aware that a great many of the programs attempt to expose ecclesiastical shortcomings, with considerable criticism of Church leaders.
The site opened with the support of various bishops in the U.S., though as its programming has become increasingly critical of the Church, some bishops have withdrawn their support.

While thoroughly approving many of the fine videos made available through this site, CatholicCulture.org recommends caution for two reasons: An apparent animus against the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite, contrary to the clear mind of the Church; and a tendency to over-simply complex cultural, ecclesiastical and theological problems, leading sometimes to the assertion of mere opinion as the “real Catholic” position.

Weaknesses noted refer to a particular video… I post only one weakness but you can read the rest in the link.

“Extreme antipathy to the liturgy of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite”
In a CIA (Catholic Investigative Agency) program entitled “Weapons of MASS Destruction”, Michael Voris portrays the origins and nature of the Ordinary Form of the Roman Rite in such a way as to lead him to conclude that, while it is a valid Mass, it is such a violent rupture with past forms of worship that it is “not authentic Catholic worship.”

Here’s another weakness that imbues the reader with distrust of the hierarchy and pastors and imposes a spiritual danger.

In its zeal to imbue Catholics with a deep traditional sense of the Faith, and because of its tendency to over-simplify complex problems, RealCatholicTV tends to criticize every competing Catholic opinion as unCatholic. No allowance is made for differences in preferences and values on Church questions about which good Catholics can disagree.
The result is a one-sided portrayal of Church problems which can lead a viewer to doubt the integrity, intentions and spirituality of others (including their pastors) which are well within the bounds of legitimate Catholic thought.

Apostolate of the Laity, a Vatican II document, paragraph Chapter 5.24 states:
“No project, however, may claim the name “Catholic” unless it has obtained the consent of the lawful Church authority.”

Here again, RCTV has included the name Catholic in their title without obtaining approval of the archdiocese. This in itself does much spiritual harm to innocent persons who believe that the title alone is a guarantee they are reading bona-fide material. We all know of heretical teachings being promulgated in websites that use the name “catholic.” Thankfully, CatholicCulture.org is on top of these for our benefit. It is wise to do our homework.

 

[Birdpreacher]

I know he doesn’t resort to personal insults like you do. But has mentioned his decadent past and repentance. I guess humility is something easier preached then practiced eh? And so is taking up your cross or fighting the good fight.

So are you and Voris going to let me vote in democratic elections or have i not met the “virtuous” threshold?

St. Francis had friendships with Muslims during the crusades, this guy is not interested in building inter-faith relationships, only in exacting violent sentiments amongst those who turn to him for spiritual guidance.

This guy is only encourages people to become callous to the world around them rather than reflecting the love of God to others.

 

[jam070406]

So are you and Voris going to let me vote in democratic elections or have i not met the “virtuous” threshold?

Of course this is a straw man. But the Bishops have laid out why Catholic can’t support intrinsic evil that is contrary to Divine law. So if you are pro abortion it would be better if you didn’t vote for your pro abortion stance for the sake of your soul. But then, you have free will.

St. Francis had friendships with Muslims during the crusades, this guy is not interested in building inter-faith relationships, only in exacting violent sentiments amongst those who turn to him for spiritual guidance.

St. Francis met with the sultan in an attempt and desire to convert him. Five of his Franciscan brothers were beheaded for preaching the Truth.

This guy is only encourages people to become callous to the world around them rather than reflecting the love of God to others.

Or perhaps he is attempting to get people to strive for Holiness as Jesus said, be perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Rather then promote callous he is shaking them from indiffentism and lukewarmness. Like Jesus said, it’s better to be hot or cold.

 

[Abyssinia]

Many of his videos veer far far away from issues of the Church, and are more about politics and whatnot; some of his statements are not merely controversial, but are outright objectionable, IMO. Truth must also include charity

Can you provide any examples?

 

[jam070406]

Scripture teaches that it is an act of charity to warn the faithful when the wolf is approaching. When apostolates are unapproved and not in compliance with the diocese in which they operate, it is a moral duty to present those findings to innocent inquirers, especially when the ministry is publicly operating unofficially in the name of Catholicism.

The Archdiocese of Detroit has issued a form letter stating that none of the activites of RealCatholicTV and its affiliates are in compliance and the apostolate is unapproved at this time. This is hardly slander, for anyone may make the inquiry of them. They do not itemize those issues that caused the denial of approval.

However, we can find clues as to the reason from an excellent catholic site that does a lot of this homework for us, so that whenever we read material from irregular websites, we can be forewarned of the dangers. Here are the comments noted in the review of RCTV.

Weaknesses noted refer to a particular video… I post only one weakness but you can read the rest in the link.

Here’s another weakness that imbues the reader with distrust of the hierarchy and pastors and imposes a spiritual danger.

What spiritual danger is Voris imposing? Be specific and present it from official Catholic teaching and not a websites opinion.
Who within the diocese disapproved his ministry. Name the authority and document please.

He’s gotten approval from Bishops and Priests some of whom have been on his show. Is this not authority? I didn’t see anything in what you presented that shows an authority denying his ministry. He‘s spoken in Churches in MI and in fact has now been allowed to speak in PA.

Apostolate of the Laity, a Vatican II document, paragraph Chapter 5.24 states:
“No project, however, may claim the name “Catholic” unless it has obtained the consent of the lawful Church authority.”

Here again, RCTV has included the name Catholic in their title without obtaining approval of the archdiocese. This in itself does much spiritual harm to innocent persons who believe that the title alone is a guarantee they are reading bona-fide material. We all know of heretical teachings being promulgated in websites that use the name “catholic.” Thankfully, CatholicCulture.org is on top of these for our benefit. It is wise to do our homework.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Of course this is a straw man.

Is it? Watch this video and tell my how you can possibly reconcile limiting the vote to only “faithful” Catholics and the need for a benevolent dictator with the teachings of the Catholic Bishops on voting. I would love to hear it.

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

 

[jam070406]

Scripture teaches that it is an act of charity to warn the faithful when the wolf is approaching. When apostolates are unapproved and not in compliance with the diocese in which they operate, it is a moral duty to present those findings to innocent inquirers, especially when the ministry is publicly operating unofficially in the name of Catholicism.

The Archdiocese of Detroit has issued a form letter stating that none of the activites of RealCatholicTV and its affiliates are in compliance and the apostolate is unapproved at this time. This is hardly slander, for anyone may make the inquiry of them. They do not itemize those issues that caused the denial of approval.

However, we can find clues as to the reason from an excellent catholic site that does a lot of this homework for us, so that whenever we read material from irregular websites, we can be forewarned of the dangers. Here are the comments noted in the review of RCTV.

Weaknesses noted refer to a particular video… I post only one weakness but you can read the rest in the link.

Here’s another weakness that imbues the reader with distrust of the hierarchy and pastors and imposes a spiritual danger.

Apostolate of the Laity, a Vatican II document, paragraph Chapter 5.24 states:
“No project, however, may claim the name “Catholic” unless it has obtained the consent of the lawful Church authority.”

Here again, RCTV has included the name Catholic in their title without obtaining approval of the archdiocese. This in itself does much spiritual harm to innocent persons who believe that the title alone is a guarantee they are reading bona-fide material. We all know of heretical teachings being promulgated in websites that use the name “catholic.” Thankfully, CatholicCulture.org is on top of these for our benefit. It is wise to do our homework.

Please provide names and documents from the Archdiocese of Detroit that condemn his ministry.
And please demonstrate what is contrary to Catholic teaching that makes him a “wolf” and imposes “spiritual danger”. And not opinions of websites please. Thanks.

 

[jam070406]

Is it? Watch this video and tell my how you can possibly reconcile limiting the vote to only “faithful” Catholics and the need for a benevolent dictator with the teachings of the Catholic Bishops on voting. I would love to hear it.

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

Yes, it was a strawman. Voris cannot deny you any rights.

 

[lizaanne]

Please provide names and documents from the Archdiocese of Detroit that condemn his ministry.

Here you go - I’ll be happy to save her the trouble: RealCatholicTV Response Please be sure to read the supporting documentation to the right of the viewer.

And please demonstrate what is contrary to Catholic teaching that makes him a “wolf” and imposes “spiritual danger”. And not opinions of websites please. Thanks.

Good luck with this part. It can’t be found, because it doesn’t exist.

~Liza

 

[Birdpreacher]

Yes, it was a strawman. Voris cannot deny you any rights.

Of Course he can’t deny me of my rights. The disturbing thing about Voris is that he wants to deny people of their rights and advocates the destruction of democracy in favor of a dictatorship.

Watch the video and reconcile his whackjob beliefs on eliminating people he considers “parasites” from the political process with anything that the Church has ever taught.
http://jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

He rebukes Bishops for their views which are contrary to his own personal political views.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rbF2SMZHLs

Not surprisingly he believes the easiest way to conduct interfaith dialogue is by openly insulting other faiths. He has done a number on Jews, stating they adhere to a manmade religion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY1GG0dyU9Y

That Islam is built on murder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yMjsOYDcfE

With views like these the Church is hesitant to give this nut any legitimacy
1)The Archdiocese of Detroit

“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

The Diocese of Scranton:

In videos posted on the Internet, Mr. Voris makes comments that certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths. The Catholic Church teaches us to respect all people, regardless of their faith tradition.

Although the Diocese shares Mr. Voris’ support of efforts to protect human life, his extreme positions on other faiths are not appropriate and therefore the Diocese cannot host him.

http://www.patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/04/11/on-michael-voris-it-is-not-an-approved-apostolate/

 

[lizaanne]

With views like these the Church is hesitant to give this nut any legitimacy

I ask that any constructive dialog continue without calling names. I don’t see how that can serve anyone well.

~Liza

 

[Sirach2]

Jam:

Please provide names and documents from the Archdiocese of Detroit that condemn his ministry.
And please demonstrate what is contrary to Catholic teaching that makes him a “wolf” and imposes “spiritual danger”. And not opinions of websites please. Thanks.

You have twisted my words. I never said the Archdiocese ‘condemned’ his ministry. I said they have not given his apostolate their approval.

As for your second paragraph, you are taking my point out of context. I requoted your rebuke to Raskolnikov alleging that he was slandering Voris, who was not here to defend himself. Point being, that scripture does advise us of our obligation to warn others when we know of situations that are spiritually harmful. The scripture uses the word ‘wolf’ that most people recognize, and I was simply pointing to the biblical reference - not labeling Voris a wolf. But if the proverbial shoe fits…

Here’s the standard communication that is sent to any inquirers.

**Regarding St. Michael’s Media, **RealCatholicTV.com

“In 2006, St. Michael’s Media of Ferndale, Michigan, through its chief executive, Michael Voris, and his associates, requested approval of its apostolate and programming from the Archdiocese of Detroit. The Detroit archdiocese responded to their initial submission and gave them direction as to the additional information and steps that would need to be taken. At issue was, and is, compliance with our basic archdiocesan media protocols and those of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). While there have been some discussions, the matter with St. Michael’s Media remains unresolved; it is not an approved apostolate.

“In 2008, a Web-based video provider named RealCatholicTV.com was launched, with Michael Voris as the primary host, producer-writer and manager, utilizing new and archive program material produced and provided, primarily, by St. Michael’s Media. The RealCatholicTV enterprise has yet to present itself or receive approval of its apostolate and programming from the Detroit archdiocese.

“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

Ned McGrath
Director of Communications
Archdiocese of Detroit

Incidentally, Lizaanne works in Voris’s office, and would naturally defend anything that is said on these fora. It is to be expected. She has seen this letter previously in other threads deleted by the moderators. Anyone is free to like or dislike his communications. The truth is, his apostolate is problematic for reasons we do not fully have information about, no matter how much Voris may decry he is being persecuted.

 

[Birdpreacher]

I ask that any constructive dialog continue without calling names. I don’t see how that can serve anyone well.

~Liza

I am not insulting anyone on these boards who are participating in the discussion. I just feel that anyone who advocates a Catholic dictaorship which disenfranachizes people who Voris considers to be “parasites” is a manifestation of pure hostility which is contrary to what being a Catholic is all about.

C’mon watch this video and tell me his teachings are inline with the Church. If you can convince me that a dictatorship is good idea, than I will stop calling the guy crazy.
jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

 

[jam070406]

You have twisted my words. I never said the Archdiocese ‘condemned’ his ministry. I said they have not given his apostolate their approval.

As for your second paragraph, you are taking my point out of context. I requoted your rebuke to Raskolnikov alleging that he was slandering Voris, who was not here to defend himself. Point being, that scripture does advise us of our obligation to warn others when we know of situations that are spiritually harmful. The scripture uses the word ‘wolf’ that most people recognize, and I was simply pointing to the biblical reference - not labeling Voris a wolf. But if the proverbial shoe fits…

Here’s the standard communication that is sent to any inquirers.

**Regarding St. Michael’s Media, **RealCatholicTV.com

“In 2006, St. Michael’s Media of Ferndale, Michigan, through its chief executive, Michael Voris, and his associates, requested approval of its apostolate and programming from the Archdiocese of Detroit. The Detroit archdiocese responded to their initial submission and gave them direction as to the additional information and steps that would need to be taken. At issue was, and is, compliance with our basic archdiocesan media protocols and those of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB). While there have been some discussions, the matter with St. Michael’s Media remains unresolved; it is not an approved apostolate.

“In 2008, a Web-based video provider named RealCatholicTV.com was launched, with Michael Voris as the primary host, producer-writer and manager, utilizing new and archive program material produced and provided, primarily, by St. Michael’s Media. The RealCatholicTV enterprise has yet to present itself or receive approval of its apostolate and programming from the Detroit archdiocese.

“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

Ned McGrath
Director of Communications
Archdiocese of Detroit

Incidentally, Lizaanne works in Voris’s office, and would naturally defend anything that is said on these fora. It is to be expected. She has seen this letter previously in other threads deleted by the moderators. Anyone is free to like or dislike his communications. The truth is, his apostolate is problematic for reasons we do not fully have information about, no matter how much Voris may decry he is being persecuted.

This tells us nothing other then they sought Archdiocese media resources and were denied. You attempted to make it sound as if they are even forbidden to be called Catholic. You attempted to present him as a dissenter and failed. You have yet to demonstrate the authority that condemns his ministry which would forbid him to speak in Catholic Parishes, which he does! Your tactic was deceptive.
Btw, last I heard he was now allowed to speak in PA again.

 

[jam070406]

I am not insulting anyone on these boards who are participating in the discussion. I just feel that anyone who advocates a Catholic dictaorship which disenfranachizes people who Voris considers to be “parasites” is a manifestation of pure hostility which is contrary to what being a Catholic is all about.

C’mon watch this video and tell me his teachings are inline with the Church. If you can convince me that a dictatorship is good idea, than I will stop calling the guy crazy.
jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

Does he use the word dictatorship?

 

[Birdpreacher]

Sorry here is my post, resubmitted with links that actually work

Watch the video and reconcile his whackjob beliefs on eliminating people he considers “parasites” from the political process with anything that the Church has ever taught.
jonathanturley.org/2010/08/18/american-taliban-meet-michael-voris/

He rebukes Bishops for their views which are contrary to his own personal political views.
loyaltothemagisterium.wordpress.com/2010/12/28/michael-voris-on-gay-bishops-and-soldiers/

Not surprisingly he believes the easiest way to conduct interfaith dialogue is by openly insulting other faiths. He has done a number on Jews, stating they adhere to a manmade religion
youtube.com/watch?v=AY1GG0dyU9Y

That Islam is built on murder
youtube.com/watch?v=-yMjsOYDcfE

With views like these the Church is hesitant to give this guy any legitimacy
1)The Archdiocese of Detroit

“Therefore, the catechetical presentations, the analysis of Catholic teachings or positions, and the commentary on Church leadership presented by St. Michael’s Media and/or RealCatholicTV— be they audio, video, or exclusively Web-based— cannot be approved or endorsed by the archdiocese at this time.”

2)The Diocese of Scranton:

In videos posted on the Internet, Mr. Voris makes comments that certainly can be interpreted as being insensitive to people of other faiths. The Catholic Church teaches us to respect all people, regardless of their faith tradition.

Although the Diocese shares Mr. Voris’ support of efforts to protect human life, his extreme positions on other faiths are not appropriate and therefore the Diocese cannot host him.

patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/04/11/on-michael-voris-it-is-not-an-approved-apostolate/