Scranton, Marywood refuse to host Catholic speaker (Michael Voris)

[ANNE_2]

Please see post 39 and 43 of this thread, after viewing the videos I would like to hear your take on his “ideas”.

#39 -

1. This video as shown is merely an opinion - nothing to do with theology.
   Can not voice my opinion since I don’t know if Turley has posted a complete video or not since the original poster of the video shown on Turley’s site is neither. As shown does not make sense to me.
   The founding fathers were against the US being a Democracy because it leads to mob rule, and therefor the US is a Republic.
   And the founding fathers also believed that the US would not survive unless the people were guided by Christian morality.
   For accuracy, suggest you contract RealCatholicTV as to what this video means.
2. Voris is correct. The Dream Act is not Catholic Doctrine.
   My opinion is that the “USCCB should follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” - the section called “Political Community and the Church”. #2245 & 2246 - which clearly state that the Church should not be involved in politics except to Save Souls or for the Fundamental Rights of ALL Men and only according to the Gospel. (Mt, Mk, Lk, Jn)
3. Historically correct.
4. Historically correct.

 

[Birdpreacher]

So by using the word cherry picked are you conceding at least that Voris’s comments are troubling in certain circumstances?

It is not like the videos I posted were inauthentic.

 

[ANNE_2]

Birdpreacher - I checked #43. There is no link.
I have no clue as to the real content and context of the video being illuded to.

Those who cast stones should provide documentation.

 

[Birdpreacher]

#39 -

1. This video as shown is merely an opinion - nothing to do with theology.
   Can not voice my opinion since I don’t know if Turley has posted a complete video or not since the original poster of the video shown on Turley’s site is neither. As shown does not make sense to me.

I could not agree with you more! This is some scary opinionated stuff which he mixes into his teachings with no intent of distinguishing one from the other.
As for the legitimacy of the video I believe that this follow up personal interview with Voris is relevant:
youtube.com/watch?v=p2SkJOyzvJg

My opinion is that the “USCCB should follow the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition” - the section called “Political Community and the Church”. #2245 & 2246 - which clearly state that the Church should not be involved in politics except to Save Souls or for the Fundamental Rights of ALL Men and only according to the Gospel. (Mt, Mk, Lk, Jn)

How is Voris’ desire to limit the vote to only “faithful catholics” congruent with Church teachings? Even if these is merely his opinion, do you want to lets this guy have any influence on your spiritual development when his personal beliefs are so contradictory to the CCC?

I suppose you are free to believe what you want about how debase the followers of other religions are, but I would rather take a page out of JPII’s book than Voris’. JPII kissed Korans and respected Muslims. He apologized for Church persecutions against Jews, and even placed a note pleading for forgiveness in the Western Wall. I would doubt that Voris would be able to manifest Christ’s love in this manner, in light of his comments on both religions.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Birdpreacher - I checked #43. There is no link.
I have no clue as to the real content and context of the video being illuded to.

Those who cast stones should provide documentation.

I know not everyone has enough time to waste posting links like me, but you will find that the submitter conveniently placed the name of the title of the vortex episode after each quote.

All you have to do is go on youtube and search for Voris and enter the specific episode name and you’re as good as gold.

You arn’t accusing the submitter of making stuff up are you? I know the quotes are controversial but those gems could only come out of Voris’ mouth.

 

[Sirach2]

Originally Posted by Sirach2 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Sure they can - Americans are free to do just about anything that is legal. *
What part do you not get about being in compliance with the Church?

Jam:

Who says they aren’t? You have yet to prove it.

I don’t have to prove anything to you or anyone else, Jam. The Archdiocesan letter and the Scranton diocese’s refusal to host him are usually sufficient for any Catholic who trusts the guidance of their bishops.

Be assured that God is not mocked - what a person sows, he reaps. Reputations spread. It’s only a matter of time, unless he changes his forté and stops besmirching the Church, the hierarchy, and the government. I’m very patient.

Radical extremists will always find a welcome home for him, however.

 

[ANNE_2]

Birdpreacher - You are still not sending me the Voris Video.
You are sending stuff from other people’s sites.
As I said, I don’t understand it, and you should direct your questions to RealCatholicTV for accurate answers.

Regarding the submitter - I have no clue, since I have never met him/her.
Unless you have seen the entire video directly from RealCatholicTV yourself with no editiing or inserts, please read the following from the CCC -

" 2477 Respect for the reputation of persons forbids every attitude and word likely to cause them unjust injury. He becomes guilty:

• of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
• of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another’s faults and failings to persons who did not know them;
• of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them. "

And don’t you ever take my quotes about the USCCB or anyone else out of context again.
I was speaking about the Dream Act and USCCB involvement.
Now I do distrust your other quotes submitted without accurate documentation

 

[Therese_Martin]

Note:

Please keep the tone of this discussion charitable, free of ad hominem, and respectful of the fact that Catholics are free to hold many different opinions (not just one) on this subject. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.

 

[jam070406]

I don’t have to prove anything to you or anyone else, Jam.

Then don’t make assertions and judge the intentions of others (ie; Michael Voris, whom you called a wolf) and people won’t require you to back those assertions.

The Archdiocesan letter and the Scranton diocese’s refusal to host him are usually sufficient for any Catholic who trusts the guidance of their bishops.

If they have just cause. Can you provide some documentation from Bishops that say Michael Voris imposes a threat to the Faith? Sorry a letter from the media department is not authoritative.

Tell me, are we to blindly follow Bishops that promote a pro-abortion or pro-homosexual agenda?

Be assured that God is not mocked -

I assume you mean Michael Voris is somehow mocking God??

what a person sows, he reaps. Reputations spread.

Yes, that is EXACTLY why Voris speaks out against dissidents, even if they are liberal Bishops that teach heresy.

It’s only a matter of time, unless he changes his forté and stops besmirching the Church, the hierarchy, and the government. I’m very patient.

He never has besmirched the Church. Please provide an example. He speaks out against those that go against Catholic teaching and kowtow to liberal agendas like abortion, gay marriage, etc and who have scandalized the Faithful with their actions.

But you would rather that he stops speaking the Truth of Catholic teaching.

Radical extremists will always find a welcome home for him, however.

Actually they won’t. Voris is too busy upholding Catholic teaching while they are destroying it.
I’m not even convinced that you have ever even listened to one of his talks.

Try these:
theonetruefaith.tv/index.php?nav=04&content=20

 

[Sirach2]

Anne2:

Unless you have seen the entire video directly from RealCatholicTV yourself with no editiing or inserts, please read the following from the CCC -

I realize perhaps you and others have never heard the remarks posters complain about. Why would we provide notoriety by furnishing links? It is bad enough that Voris made the videos. One thread was so bad that the Traditional Forum banned further threads on Voris for a time. He does not wear any of the authentic traits of a true prophet, but those of an extremist hell-bent on dividing the Church and destroying unity.

I personally viewed the video in the closed thread and I will share some of the slander toward the clergy that was in it.

His words verbatim were, “the Bishops made up silly excuses about why the TLM should not be said and ‘smiled nicely’ and threw the pope’s directive in the circular file.” Pretty strong accusations, no? I’d call it rash judgment … he wasn’t there! He doesn’t know all the bishops or their reasons for how they oversee their dioceses. He’s just in a snit because the TLM was not more prevalent and made up this jargon to attack them.

Let’s consider another remark in the same video. He stated that pastors hold “free wheeling parties in the sanctuary.” More rash judgment, and highly offensive language for members of the clergy, who are lumped together as though all of them do this.

The worst comment about the clergy [since many now face the congregation as they celebrate mass, in obedience to V-II and their bishops] was that “they doggedly did not want to share center stage with Jesus!” That is so offensive that I shudder as I type it. There is no need to drag all of this further into the public eye. Suffice to say, the aforementioned dioceses know what they are doing - but since their reasons are not public, some think they are just being picayune.

I hope this helps.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Anne I apologize for any misunderstanding of mine which caused me to take your quotes out of context. Perhaps you can clear up my misunderstanding.

Birdpreacher - You are still not sending me the Voris Video.
You are sending stuff from other people’s sites.
As I said, I don’t understand it, and you should direct your questions to RealCatholicTV for accurate answers.

1. I am hesitant to go on any site which requires to submit my email address, especially in light of a previous post which commented on the trouble the site was having with spammers.
2. I know the videos I post aren’t straight from their official site, but they appear to show him speaking his mind. If there is a great discrepancy then I would apreciate it if you bring forth any contradicting evidence. After all the diocese of Scranton and the Archdiocese of Detroit are putt off by his comments in these exact areas. Maybe you could register a SN for everyone on this thread to use so we could peruse the archive at RealCatholictv.

I agree that the Dream Act was not Church Doctrine, I was merely trying to show how apparently hypocritical Voris criticism of the Bishops was. He degrades them for getting involved with Immigration, which he considers to be a “third rail issue” yet recites his own personal beliefs concerning Homosexuals, voting rights, and government provided social services. If his goal is to educate Catholic about their faith, why is he even bringing these issues up? The one helpful thing about realcatholictv was its “about us” page which states

“No materials on this website are intended to speak in the name of the Church.”

That should be running on a banner throughout his entire webisodes , because the way he mixes in his personal opinions with theology seemed purposefully misleading.

As for the submitter of #43, why you came to me about his post in the first place I dont know. Why you had to close off your statement by saying

Those who cast stones should provide documentation.

is also confusing.
It just appeared to me that you were questioning the authenticity of this guy’s post, If that wasn’t the case I am sorry.

 

[jam070406]

I could not agree with you more! This is some scary opinionated stuff which he mixes into his teachings with no intent of distinguishing one from the other.
As for the legitimacy of the video I believe that this follow up personal interview with Voris is relevant:
youtube.com/watch?v=p2SkJOyzvJg

Even if you disagree with his opinions, I find it disturbing that you side with the pro-abortion, liberal women that is interviewing him in that video. How did you expect a conversation between a secularist and a Traditional Catholic to go?

How is Voris’ desire to limit the vote to only “faithful catholics” congruent with Church teachings? Even if these is merely his opinion, do you want to lets this guy have any influence on your spiritual development when his personal beliefs are so contradictory to the CCC?

What’s objectionable about desiring people to find salvation in the Church Christ established? He believes the Catholic Church is the Church started by Jesus and it’s mission is to get people to Heaven. Why would you question that he desires people come to the Truth and holds an expectation of our leaders to hold virtues in line with Divine law? Like ending abortion, which he mentioned. I don’t think he’s saying anything more radical then what past Popes and Saints have said.

I suppose you are free to believe what you want about how debase the followers of other religions are, but I would rather take a page out of JPII’s book than Voris’. JPII kissed Korans and respected Muslims. He apologized for Church persecutions against Jews, and even placed a note pleading for forgiveness in the Western Wall. I would doubt that Voris would be able to manifest Christ’s love in this manner, in light of his comments on both religions.

Voris teaches that the Catholic Church is the One True Faith. Do you disagree? I don’t think you’ve actually listened to his talks because your opinions of him are not justified.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Jam,

Are the videos I posted accurate portrayals of Voris despite coming from second hand sources?

As for the interview, the words that come out of his mouth are his own. In that particular circumstance I am siding with neither the secularist or Voris, both of their ideas trouble me.

 

[jam070406]

He does not wear any of the authentic traits of a true prophet,

I have never heard Voris claim to be a prophet.

but those of an extremist hell-bent on dividing the Church and destroying unity.

This is a very serious charge and very un-Christian. You are judging the intentions of a man you don’t know. Thankfully for Michael his only judge is Jesus Christ.

I personally viewed the video in the closed thread and I will share some of the slander toward the clergy that was in it.

Even you would claim that those that oppose the Pope are dissidents. Michael points them out but you jump to their side.

His words verbatim were, “the Bishops made up silly excuses about why the TLM should not be said and ‘smiled nicely’ and threw the pope’s directive in the circular file.” Pretty strong accusations, no? I’d call it rash judgment … he wasn’t there! He doesn’t know all the bishops or their reasons for how they oversee their dioceses. He’s just in a snit because the TLM was not more prevalent and made up this jargon to attack them.

Or maybe he’s making a point that the Pope cleared the way and desired for the TLM to be used in more wider use but liberal Bishops blocked his requests in defiance.

Let’s consider another remark in the same video. He stated that pastors hold “free wheeling parties in the sanctuary.” More rash judgment, and highly offensive language for members of the clergy, who are lumped together as though all of them do this.

Are you completely oblivious to Liturgical abuse? It exists. And it is highly offensive to Almighty God. And…I’m sure Voris didn’t accuse all Priests. Who’s using rash judgement?

The worst comment about the clergy [since many now face the congregation as they celebrate mass, in obedience to V-II and their bishops] was that “they doggedly did not want to share center stage with Jesus!” That is so offensive that I shudder as I type it. There is no need to drag all of this further into the public eye. Suffice to say, the aforementioned dioceses know what they are doing - but since their reasons are not public, some think they are just being picayune.

Hmmmm…is he really accusing all of the clergy, like you’d have us think, or the few rogue that are disobediant?
Where does VII say that Priests are to face the people btw? Document please.

I hope this helps.

I hope this helps. :tiphat:

 

[jam070406]

Jam,

Are the videos I posted accurate portrayals of Voris despite coming from second hand sources?

As for the interview, the words that come out of his mouth are his own. In that particular circumstance I am siding with neither the secularist or Voris, both of their ideas trouble me.

He explained himself and his position. I think it comes from a much deeper understanding that cannot be displayed in a 3 minute video. Why would the idea of desiring leaders to uphold Divine law be so radical coming from a Catholic Faithful to Jesus and His Church??

 

[Birdpreacher]

What’s objectionable about desiring people to find salvation in the Church Christ established? He believes the Catholic Church is the Church started by Jesus and it’s mission is to get people to Heaven. Why would you question that he desires people come to the Truth and holds an expectation of our leaders to hold virtues in line with Divine law?.

No problem with that here, If you look at the video I posted where he discusses the need for a Catholic Dictatorship, you will see that he advocates targeting people who are not “faithful catholics” and taking away their right to vote. This is a far cry from pushing our leaders to fall inline with Divine Law through the political process of Democracy.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Voris teaches that the Catholic Church is the One True Faith. Do you disagree? I don’t think you’ve actually listened to his talks because your opinions of him are not justified.

I just feel that his comments regarding Judaism as a “man made religion” and that Islam is a religion" founded on murder, both of which are available in the videos I posted to be out of line with the examples of love and respect set by JPII. I am sure JPII beleived that the Catholic Church was the one true faith, yet he never said anything as insulting to other faiths like Voris does.

 

[jam070406]

No problem with that here, If you look at the video I posted where he discusses the need for a Catholic Dictatorship, you will see that he advocates targeting people who are not “faithful catholics” and taking away their right to vote. This is a far cry from pushing our leaders to fall inline with Divine Law through the political process of Democracy.

Of course this presupposes the Mission of the Church to evangelize and teach Truth. To convert souls and to build Faithful Catholics. He has ALWAYS stressed that the problems of the country and society are problems of the hearts of individuals and the crisis of Faith. That is why, as he said, our system is failing. Because people don’t have consciences informed by the light of Truth. He’s trying to wake people up to this and people bash and condemn him.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Maryknoll made the right choice…

Marywood, not Maryknoll.

 

[Birdpreacher]

Jam,

I totally agree with him on what the problem is, however, his proposed remedy is ridiculous. He wants to take away a citizen’s fundamental right to vote, how is this a good thing?