Scrapping Welfare

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And if you are on welfare but not actively looking for work, what do you call that?
I’d settle for your definition if it came with data on the other categories of people not working.
 
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Theo520 said:
And if you are on welfare but not actively looking for work, what do you call that?
I’d settle for your definition if it came with data on the other categories of people not working.
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You mean like social security recipients?
 
I’d have to find them, but there are some studies like that for food stamps. Basically, the categories listed are:
  • Minors
  • Those past retirement age
  • Those legally disabled and deemed unable to work
  • Full-time caretakers (either of small children or of the disabled)
  • Those who are working
  • Those who are not working and not in another category
The problem of course is there’s a lot of controversy over who actually belongs in each category.

I’m not sure if there are further statistics on what percentage of the last category are looking for work, and if not what the reasons are.
 
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For the most part, yes. It is not intrinsically evil or good to keep it or scrap it. I hold to the position that Welfare is more harmful than good, though I can see having safety nets for very specific cases, and those things have to be evaluated pretty cautiously.

Economists like Walter E. Williams, Thomas Sowell, Thomas E. Woods, Milton Friedman…they’ve explained the immorality of welfare and the morality of charity instead. It’s a position I side with and the ideal is to restore the dignity of charity and work to people.

Again, that’s generally speaking – I understand safety nets for specific cases.

If you also learn about how Welfare as it is currently in place has been established, you’d find it was very immoral. LBJ implemented the Great Society Act to Black Americans so as to keep them voting a specific way – much like the Carpet Baggers;
“These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference.”
-LBJ
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He also famously said “I’ll have those N*****s voting Democrat for the next 50 years.” It has incentivized fathers to leave their families so as to allow mothers to cash in on welfare. This is why the Black family has been so terribly in shambles. 70% of Black motherhood is out of wedlock.

So my position is that with Fathers being so important in the family unit, welfare as it stands today is very immoral and ought to be scrapped.
 
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The last line is almost prophetic, “They (welfare programs) tend to rot away the very fabric that holds decent society together”. This was what, 40 to 50 years ago? There were others like Thomas Sowell who were saying the same thing.
 
goout said:
Ask any employment or temp agency about this. The unemplyment rate where I live is currently about 9%, and at the same time , anyone and everyone can find a job today right now.
The threshold of idle pay/work pay is so high that those on welfare have a serious choice over whether to work or collect.
And I get it. if I can sit and collect, or work and make a few bucks more, that is an almost impossible choice to work.
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I looked at the income level limit to collecting food stamps one time. It was pretty high. In fact I think an enterprising self employed person could easily manage to collect food stamps while working by not collecting much income in some years.

Speaking of food stamps the old scam was to sell the food stamps for maybe thirty cents on the dollar. The seller would buy booze, drugs, entertainment, or whatever they like. I knew a working man who would buy them from people to purchase his food. I don’t know what the new scam is.

One problem is the corporations have gamed the system so executives make way too much money and the working man makes very little. It used to be a man could make a living doing jobs that he couldn’t live off of these days.

We need to do away with welfare and the corporatacracy.
 
Escabrosa said:
The last line is almost prophetic, “They (welfare programs) tend to rot away the very fabric that holds decent society together”. This was what, 40 to 50 years ago? There were others like Thomas Sowell who were saying the same thing.
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Absolutely. I began to study Austrian and Chicago School of economics about 10 years ago when I was 20. It was a huge eye-opener for me since my juvenile mind told me that if we give to the needy, then we are doing a good thing. But just like how a parent knows that this mentality spoils his kids and robs them of needed virtue, this does the same for a society.
 
Yes, It’s a bunch of factors. One that gets often ignored because it’s not PC is the participation of women in the labor market. Around 35% in 1955 and around 60% today. I sometimes wonder how flooding the work force with millions more workers has affected individual income and how families are affected in general. Fertility rates, divorce, daycare, education, and so on.
 
The government confiscated that money. Instead of making families wealthier the money went to the state. Women in the workplace made the state stronger, to no ones benefit, save the people who live of the state in one way or another.
 
On the other hand, I think we’re finding that even with children, if we focus only on punishing them for not doing right we don’t get good results.

That’s one common complaint now. People don’t see a lot of opportunity for advancement in many of the jobs that are offered to the poor. Why work for 9 bucks an hour in a job where the only reward for doing a good job is that you get to do your coworker’s job too?
 
DarkLight said:
On the other hand, I think we’re finding that even with children, if we focus only on punishing them for not doing right we don’t get good results.

That’s one common complaint now. People don’t see a lot of opportunity for advancement in many of the jobs that are offered to the poor. Why work for 9 bucks an hour in a job where the only reward for doing a good job is that you get to do your coworker’s job too?
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Sure, and that’s a legitimate concern. All in all, not all jobs are going to be the most ideal, selling your own labor the way most everyone does may not be the best solution for all of the financial goals.

With the dollar being inflated and the college degree being devalued, this becomes more of a problem for people. Although we have been seeing a greater improvement this past year with economic growth and the job market, so there is hope.

Charity is also something that needs to be valued, and the call to action from all of us. Welfare often reverts to these problems and makes it more difficult for people to regain their ability. For some, it means they end up in the criminal system sadly.
 
exnihilo said:
Speaking of food stamps the old scam was to sell the food stamps for maybe thirty cents on the dollar. The seller would buy booze, drugs, entertainment, or whatever they like. I knew a working man who would buy them from people to purchase his food. I don’t know what the new scam is.
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Looks like it’s now 50 cents on the dollar, and it is often facilitated by the store. Social Media is also helpful in arranging a sale.


In addition, I’ve read a practice was to buy pop in bulk and then resell it as a commodity.
https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/eric-scheiner/food-stamps-are-tickets-fraud-pop-train

Even found sites that explain how to find and buy products that come with cash rebates, so people buy based on what gives a good rebate instead of what they really need. I’m sure the company offering the rebate knows exactly what they are doing and it allows them to sell at a much higher price.
 
It would be nice if we somehow decided to actually abide by the Constitution and leave this issue at the local levels. The federal government has no constitutional authority to provide welfare.
 
exnihilo said:
The government confiscated that money. Instead of making families wealthier the money went to the state. Women in the workplace made the state stronger, to no ones benefit, save the people who live of the state in one way or another.
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As a female who works, there are a couple of benefits of my doing so that are not to benefits to the state or people who live off it. Firstly I am single and my work enables me to put food on my table and a roof over my head without having to depend on family or friends to financially support me (benefit to me and them). Secondly my job enables me to use my skills (which is a benefit to me) to help others who need help but don’t have the same skills (benefit to them).
 
I would love to see any and all welfare handled on a local level, through city taxes, or maybe on a state level. I think the federal government needs to get out of it. If that were to happen, I’d happily support it- though private charity is leagues better.
 
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